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-   -   A little help on wheel/tire setup/advice (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511137)

hrpiii 10-19-2017 11:04 AM

A little help on wheel/tire setup/advice
 
First and foremost, we like to travel all over, and like to keep the car very drivable in many different weather conditions. Wife is getting into more HPDE and truly enjoying it. And I want to support her in every way I can. Which brings me the ol' wheel/tire setup.

Even upgrading to 6-piston CTS-V brakes over the winter, just waiting on a couple parts before the install begins. She is very excited about a bigger brake setup.

And with the wealth of information and knowledge on this forum, it can become a little confusing to what we want to do, and what is needed or best for us in how we use our car, for fun and for travel. We are talking about maybe 8-10 HPDE events next year.

Currently, we have stock size wheels and tires (Vreds ultra vorti) and not having any issues. The Vorti's are great tires, and in wet weather, about as solid as a HP summer tire as I have ever been on. And trust me, driving through the mountains with rain so hard you can't see past the hood and never once felt the tires loose traction. And I accept there is give and take when it comes to performance tires on the track, and daily use in wet weather, again our track time if for fun, not shooting for any bragging rights.

What I am wanting to do, if this is a solid path to take for us, to go with 19" wheels. Like a 19x9 up front and 19x10 in the rears. I think this would give me a lot of flexibility in the different sizes and manufacture options for tires. I really like the Vredestein Vorti's, but could be convinced a better tire for daily use and track could be used. The wheels we currently have are cast, and I will be going to a forged wheel this winter to help in strength and weight.

Does my wheel sizes sound like a good choice in what we do with our car? Or anyone have better tire options? Will I see/feel in difference in handling with going to 19's and lighter weight?

Thoughts? Good? Bad? stay with what I got for tires and just upgrade the wheels?

The car has a multitude of upgrades, all suspension upgraded and supercharged.

Notilloc 10-19-2017 01:55 PM

Just curious, why not have a street wheel/tire and a track wheel/tire? Cheap cast wheels are fine for the street, then use the forged wheels for the track? This way you don't have to compromise at all, you can have a street friendly tire and a more aggressive track tire.

frenchsquared 10-19-2017 01:59 PM

18's give you the most tire options at the best cost. 19's are limited and cost more.

I agree with 2 sets of wheels. I get 4 days out of a set of track tires. There are no GREAt track tires that are also GREAT in cold weather or wet weather. It just doesn't work that way.

I am going to run RE-71's as my street and track tire. I will then use R7's from time to time to show off on the track.

Notilloc 10-19-2017 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchsquared (Post 9945553)
18's give you the most tire options at the best cost. 19's are limited and cost more.

I agree with 2 sets of wheels. I get 4 days out of a set of track tires. There are no GREAt track tires that are also GREAT in cold weather or wet weather. It just doesn't work that way.

I am going to run RE-71's as my street and track tire. I will then use R7's from time to time to show off on the track.

How does the Z/28 work with "street tires"? I've only driven one with Hoosiers on and it was amazing! The Re-71 is a good tire but compared to the Pirellis or Hoosiers it's not even close. Does the Z/28 still lap well without r-comps?

Sorry to thread jack, I'm just curious.

hrpiii 10-19-2017 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notilloc (Post 9945540)
Just curious, why not have a street wheel/tire and a track wheel/tire? Cheap cast wheels are fine for the street, then use the forged wheels for the track? This way you don't have to compromise at all, you can have a street friendly tire and a more aggressive track tire.

Well, I do have Summer and Winter tire sets, but we drive all over for HPDE tracks, they are not local. I have my winter tires on my OEM wheels and swap those out for winter driving (the car is not a DD). So a 4 hour drive to a track, in potential wet conditions on a TRACK tire would be dangerous. So I guess I am looking at a HP tire that can do well in wet conditions, not necessarily in COLD conditions. I have Continental DWS for my winter setup. I don't mind a little compromise and would love to have a set of ONLY track tires, but not possible based on traveling to different tracks and needing to pack all those tire and gear along with clothes to stay overnight.



Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchsquared (Post 9945553)
18's give you the most tire options at the best cost. 19's are limited and cost more.

I agree with 2 sets of wheels. I get 4 days out of a set of track tires. There are no GREAt track tires that are also GREAT in cold weather or wet weather. It just doesn't work that way.

I am going to run RE-71's as my street and track tire. I will then use R7's from time to time to show off on the track.

How do you guys haul a set of wheels to HPDE or Auto-crossing in your Camaro? Don't be all like, trailer it..not gonna happen. Heck, just packing for a weekend with clothes and tools fills up the car, couldn't imagine trying to get 4 full tires in this car and being comfortable. Now if the track was in my backyard (local), I could easily do this.

When you say 19's are limited and cost more, are you talking tires? I never considered 18's, will have to think about that a little bit more. Appreciate the help guys.

Synner 10-19-2017 04:39 PM

Buy yourself a $200 harbor freight trailer and haul the track tires with the camaro. Way too many compromises to have a single use setup for that many track days a year.

Notilloc 10-19-2017 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpiii (Post 9945623)
Well, I do have Summer and Winter tire sets, but we drive all over for HPDE tracks, they are not local. I have my winter tires on my OEM wheels and swap those out for winter driving (the car is not a DD). So a 4 hour drive to a track, in potential wet conditions on a TRACK tire would be dangerous. So I guess I am looking at a HP tire that can do well in wet conditions, not necessarily in COLD conditions. I have Continental DWS for my winter setup. I don't mind a little compromise and would love to have a set of ONLY track tires, but not possible based on traveling to different tracks and needing to pack all those tire and gear along with clothes to stay overnight.

I use a trailer for my trips but I don't think an r-comp tire is necessary for a track tire. A set of Hankook rs-3s or rs-4 would be great as a "track tire" that is still safe to drive back and forth from the track. Michelin has quite a few options that are pretty good street/track tires, the Goodyear g2 or supercar 3 are good street/track tires. They are very high-performance tires that are firmer, louder and wear faster than your average street tires but they are still safe (mostly) in the rain and inclement weather. R-comp tires require lots of sacrifices so I don't recommend that but there are tons of options for you in the extreme performance range that will work great driving a few hours to a track, spending a weekend there and driving back and switching to your normal street tires when you get home.

HardrockSS 10-19-2017 08:29 PM

I drove to the track with my Michelin pilot super sports and they were excellent on the track.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

hrpiii 10-20-2017 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notilloc (Post 9945810)
I use a trailer for my trips but I don't think an r-comp tire is necessary for a track tire. A set of Hankook rs-3s or rs-4 would be great as a "track tire" that is still safe to drive back and forth from the track. Michelin has quite a few options that are pretty good street/track tires, the Goodyear g2 or supercar 3 are good street/track tires. They are very high-performance tires that are firmer, louder and wear faster than your average street tires but they are still safe (mostly) in the rain and inclement weather. R-comp tires require lots of sacrifices so I don't recommend that but there are tons of options for you in the extreme performance range that will work great driving a few hours to a track, spending a weekend there and driving back and switching to your normal street tires when you get home.

Thanks Notilloc, helps me narrow down things and get these winter upgrades moving.

hrpiii 10-20-2017 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardrockSS (Post 9946002)
I drove to the track with my Michelin pilot super sports and they were excellent on the track.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The Super Sports are about like my Vorti's and should do well in occasional wet conditions. I am not looking for an all-season tire, but a performance tire that is also good in wet conditions.

Good advice from all, helps me do more narrowed research.

Norm Peterson 10-20-2017 08:15 AM

For that many track days a year I'd expect you to "outgrow" 9" wide front wheels and appropriate tire sizes for that width. I'd look to at least 10" (all around) or maybe the 10"/11" widths like the ZL1 and 1LE both use (except theirs being in 20"). And there's always the Z/28 wheel widths . . .

The MPSS is one of the best choices you could make if you're not going to use a tire trailer and there's any chance your track day is going to be wet. The new PS4S is supposed to be even better. Hint - a few hundred to a thousand or so street miles of gradually increasing intensity seems to prevent 'chunking' at the track. I've got a dozen track days on mine, along with close to 5 thousand street miles. Except for the outer shoulders, they're only about 50% worn. 285/35's on 11" wide wheels.

I don't know if you've seen this before, but I didn't find it a tense drive at all. Just wet and somewhat off the dry pace.

https://youtu.be/g6brVFxPSPw


Norm

hrpiii 10-20-2017 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson (Post 9946405)
For that many track days a year I'd expect you to "outgrow" 9" wide front wheels and appropriate tire sizes for that width. I'd look to at least 10" (all around) or maybe the 10"/11" widths like the ZL1 and 1LE both use (except in 20"). And there's always the Z/28 wheel widths . . .

The MPSS is one of the best choices you could make if you're not going to use a tire trailer and there's any chance your track day is going to be wet. The new PS4S is supposed to be even better. Hint - a few hundred to a thousand or so street miles of gradually increasing intensity seems to prevent 'chunking' at the track. I've got a dozen track days on mine, along with 4 or 5 thousand street miles. Except for the outer shoulders, they're only about 50% worn. 285/35's on 11" wide wheels.

I don't know if you've seen this before, but it wasn't a tense drive at all. Just wet and somewhat below the dry pace.

https://youtu.be/g6brVFxPSPw


Norm

Thanks Norm, I have been "working" hard on the internet this morning...and when I say working, I'm at work researching tires...lol. So far, I think the 20" wheels is what I want to stick with from what I am wanting and looking at. so 20x10 and 20x11 or both 20x10. I'm kind of seeing that too now.

The PS4S seems to be a good tire from all I have found, it has a UTQG rating of 300 AA A (I understand the UTQG is manufacture set rating) and the Vredestein Vorti's are 320 AA A and both seem to handle wet weather pretty good along with both being 100+Y rating. The sizes in the PS4S is a little more limited compared to the Vreds. With 3 HPDE on the Vreds, there has been no loss of grip and holding up pretty well. I'm not sure I would gain a whole lot more from the PS4S, but may try them once the Vreds are worn down (probably early next year). Sounds like the wear on yours is about like mine, which is a good thing.

Is a 275/40R20 good for square setup for a little track time and daily driving? Or just go with the 285/30R20 and enjoy (or is that too wide up front with a lowered car)?

frenchsquared 10-20-2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notilloc (Post 9945600)
How does the Z/28 work with "street tires"? I've only driven one with Hoosiers on and it was amazing! The Re-71 is a good tire but compared to the Pirellis or Hoosiers it's not even close. Does the Z/28 still lap well without r-comps?

Sorry to thread jack, I'm just curious.


I cannot tell you for a few months. I finished this year on Trofeos. I know a few 2017 SS 1LE's on street tires and they are doing amazing.

The issue is $2400 for 4 tires over 4 days. Add in pads and you are at $1000 per day. Next, the OP wants rain... and the OP is going to see cold mornings. The Trofeos or Hoosiers are faster on the track. Everyone knows that. But if you having fun and experiencing new tracks. You don't need them. You need a better street tire. Another think to remember is these are new tracks for the OP. Why waste the money on track tires until you know the racing line. Go have fun at half the cost and be safer.

I have spent countless hours researching tires and asking guys at the track about them. I settled on the RE-71 for the life and performance on 4,000lb BMWs. Those guys love them and they hold up.

jksynergy 10-20-2017 02:35 PM

I'll throw in my 2 cents into this. First off, plenty of great information here so far. I personally, on our 1LE run 3 sets of wheels and tires. We have 2 sets that are 20x10 square. 1 set on 275/35's Conti DW's that I love in the rain and cooler mornings. 1 set on the stock size 285/35 Goodyears, I hoarded as many as I could and am finally down to 1 last set. I had 7 full sets total. And we have the factory 20x10, 20x11 1LE wheels. Those are now on BFG Comp 2 all seasons. Won the tires at a track day and mounted those up to get some extra Goodyears for the track. For what you are wanting to do, run a 20x10 square setup, offsets in the 20-25 range so you can add camber to about max without hitting the struts and then rotate the tires front to back, side to side depending on the tread pattern and go for it. The Michelin PS4S seems to be the tire that will do what you are asking of it.


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