Pedders Supercars and ZL1 Spec Sways installed
 

Last Thursday Haddad Motorsports installed some goodies:

Pedders Supercar coilovers
Pedders ZL1 Spec 27/32mm sway bars
Whiteline Craddle incerts and upper rear control arm bushings
Auto X alignment

Had to sell my Pfadt ZL1 spec sways as they dont clear the canisters on the rear coilovers.Anyone wanting supercars note only Pedders bars will clear, or the factory bars.
One pic shows where the Pfadt bar hits the cannister, the next pic with the Pedders bar and how the cannister clears it.

Having fun with the coilovers and finding the right settings. Definately keeps you busy and out of trouble!

A few pics

Excellent, looks familiar! You gonna eventually do the adjustable camber plates?

Im loving mine. I finally have a set of front tires that have lasted longer than 5000 miles. 5 minutes 8 bolts and im at -2.8 camber....tear up the track......5 min 8 bolts and im back to a tire friendly -0.8 camber:thumbsup:

Running 12kg coils on all corners also. My kidneys hate me! But i love it!!!!!

No, no camber plates. Running the stock coils, no bad kidneys for me..lol
Running -1.2 front and .7 back so dont kill the insides of the tires to much but good for auto x. trying to dial in the street ride of course, always fun!

I eddited the first post with more pics and read/ see how the Pfadt bar doesnt clear the cannister at the back of the rear shock.

Past week playing with the settings for best ride on our patched up and bombed out roads.2.5 pages of settings and notes...lol After reading what I found as to what people have tried and Pedders settings and the number of clicks difference rebound and bound thoughts.
So far best street setting for me and my setup is what the instructions say, bound rebound same numbers and 2 clicks softer then the factory settings, will try 2 clicks softer still but need freeway test first as high speed and low speed settings can be different. For reducing understeer though best to have rears 2-3 clicks more firm

New ride height
 

A few pics of new height. The front we raised a bit,the back came down to even the overall ride height. The rear was up a 1/4" with the Hotchkis springs. overall drop with the Hotchkis was 1" front and 3/4" rear.
Over time the coilovers are supposed to settle 1/4" or so. So far in 350 miles nothing has changed yet.
New height all around now is 25.875" in front,from lower wheel lip as meassured like Pedders does, and 25.8125" in the rear. Thats right where Pedders likes the max drop from stock.If they settle as said I will raise them up to these numbers.

As to rebound,bound numbers for the street I have them at 12/12 all around. Am trying front 12/12 and rear 10/10 now and seems better in the back as to ride. Will see as I get used to them and where the settings end up.

Am loving the ride, handling and smooth control the coilovers have over stock and the drop springs. They are solid, yet controlled and comfortable all at the same time

Perfect ride height! Looks great!

Thanks! Love these c/o's!

Almost 600 miles and no settling of the setup, like that. Been doing alot of around town setting changes. All low speed 20-50 mph around town and bumpy road settings as thats my ride all week. I have done 2.5 pages of setting trys :crazy: and recorded what the results were. At this point front are at 9/9 and rear at 6/6 with all in my sig, tires at 34 cold and 37-38 hot.Ride is comfortable, soft over bumps, but controlled and solid, not like drop springs!
Car handles good, not as well as firmer settings but ride around town is to harsh over the bumps and ripples, it still has low speed "jiggles" but this setting combo works best so far. Big tires, maybe the craddle and rear arm bushings and 450-500 lb springs I'm sure accounts for the rest.
On the freeway dips and irregularities are soaked up and controlled, especially the sudden drops in pavement sections where you bounce back up after hitting them, to stiff and the shocks over control and the movement is to fast and "voilent" or quick to react.All inwhat you like though which is neat about these coilovers.

Good to hear you are getting them dialed in. Must be fun to have the adjustability and tunability of the coil-overs.

More a pain in the butt! No it is interesting and fun, but you really get down to just 1-2 settings you like for daily drive after all the combos you try. The auto x is a different set of combos and settings are different for sure, and the freeway likes a different setting, firmer, but then not good for the street unless roads are glass smooth or close.

Very nice!

I have a similar setup except I couldn't swing for the super coils. I had to stay with the single adjustable.

Keep us updated after your next Auto-X event. My car did really well for being on stock wheels and tires when I Auto-X a couple weeks back.

Thanks ! Been following your mods also. Yeah I really had to "grin and bear it" on the price even though I got a deal I couldnt turn down. Single adjustables work great at auto x, have several freinds who kick but with them, mine included...lol
Will take some events to get the hang of it, one of our top guys has done 12 plus major events and still playing with the settings. Next ones are next year, will let you know how they went

O.k., more trade secrets. For the street with my setup 9/6 is still best, followed by 10/7 and 12/6. Softer settings likt 6/3, 8/5 etc. Actually seemed more harsh or firm over bad roads.The wrong combo of bound rebound, even 1 click of can make the car more firm in back. Alot of work, and these coilovers wont ever be as compliant on bad roads as stock shocks, but are solid, more firm and controlled over most road conditions and great at speed like freeways. Keep the stock tire sizes and bushings and sways and that may help the ride some, just opinoin on that though but firm up everything and I would think you will notice the road more. Overall I like them, and more so then drop springs

Edit: 12/10/13, Running 10/10 front rear and is good, better then the above but close. Note as car is balanced f/r pretty close it seems to like same front/rear settings bound and rebound, though the above ones work, similar to XA settings people have posted up, not sure why though.All same f/r settings seem more balanced, just firmer or softer, softer gets rid of alot of the rear bounce or firmness, but not all.

Nice, I love mine. I run mine rather soft for the street. 6/6 up front and 3/3 in the back for the street. Depending on the course I will go from roughly 10/14 up to 16/16 in the front and 14/18 up to 20/24 in the rear for the autocross days. I have quite a few notes from each event that I have run on different combinations. I am running -1.5* and -1* for camber.

Cool, may try the 6/6 3/3 again, just seemed to loose and not as controlled over bumps. My cambor is -1.2 and -.7.
So your running more bound then rebound it appears for the track?
trying that some now for the street so isnt so firm, seems opposite of all I have researched though.

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/shocktune.html
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/th...hocktune1.html
http://www.sardesonracing.com/shock_tuning.htm
http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/shocktuningTN.html


I read these articles to help with how I like the car to feel. When it comes to setting the car up it is all on personal preference. Most of the courses I have ran were mostly smooth with only a couple major bumps in the course which allows me to keep the rebound at a higher rate. Again, it is all subjective to how you like the car to feel. For the street the settings I use don't give me the most control but it keeps the ride soft, especially for passengers. I don't mind keeping the shocks turned up most people that ride with me don't like it.

Thanks. I saw some of those. Yeah courses we do are smooth also, fontana is but rough and chews tires a bit but no bumps.I do like the control of the 8 to 12 range on the street, though at say 9/12 ratio back is always more firm and bouncy, but of course the car turns faster and is more fun at low speeds.front/back the same ride is balanced as the
car is 52/48 balance itself.Right now for our bumpy rippled roads a balanced f/r works best for me and have it at 8/5 front and rear, keeping bound the same always f/r and tailoring rebound at about 1/3 stiffer then the bound

Off topic, VR, How much lighter are your wheels over stock and how have they held up?

about 6-7 lbs lighter each, and thats 9's and 10's vs 8's and 9's. Was vary noticable on a bad section of freeway and improved the ride. Havent been able to tell in auto x, been changing to many things..lol
So far holding up fine, a few mars in the clearcoat from cones and mounting the new tires at the extreme edge of the rim where it meets the tire but thats it.

OK- I'm a spec nerd, but the stock 20X8 fronts go 32lbs, TSW lists the Nurburg's 20X9 at 23.3lbs= 8.7lbs or a 27% weight reduction.

Stock back 20X9's are 36lbs, down to 24.45 for a 20X10 TSW= 11.55lbs or 32% less.

IOW- they not only look good, they make a difference! :nod:

Cool, Better then I read somewhere. Or just forgot the numbers...lol

Personally I like the looks of the OEM wheels. So much that I just can't bring myself to drop $1k+ on a set of wheels. They are extremely heavy pigs though. Every time I have to lift one up to put on the car I'm reminded of that.

Eventually I may have to break down and buy some wheels but I always seem to find something else to spend that money on.

They are nice but to heavy.I noticed a difference in ride on bad freeway sections and bad roads. These sizes are a dual mode. Stock size tires fit as do the larger ones I have now and like the look, a win, win!

I edited post 14 with more findings.Going to write a book..lol

Latest update. Tried 6F3R like Pedders says is a start place for street oem for the regular XA's.Didnt like it at first, again, and what alot of people with xa'a said, still that rear end bounce and firmess, like the tires were overinflated. Same result as when there is more rear rebound vs the front, but not as bad. Well today put the tires at 35/35 psi, they were 35/33, the old less air in the rear makes softer ride theory.Well not this time, the 315 invos on 10" rims, and invos in general seem to like more air, and that did the trick! 2 lousy psi with my setup and tires, got rid of the rear bounce its pretty compliant over that patched pavement, stable, softer yet solid and firm all at one time, a little firm gjiggle here and there but with this setup to be expected.On the freeway nice and composed, solid and stable and takes the drops in the concrete sections well and controlled, you bounce up a bit in the seat but my head didnt hit the roof this time..lol.

Anyway great shocks and can adjust till the cows come home to whatever you haveas a setup and your roads, what you like as to ride feel and all that.

Any more info and you can find it in my new book to be released in a year named " The joy of adjusting shocks"...lol

Played with more settings. I like 12/10 and 12/10 as another street option. Firm but balanced and soaks up bumps. Better then the 9/6 setting and like it better then the 6/3 comfy setting, though that one is best for really bad roads. These parts will always be firm though unless you go 0/0 but thats not that controlled.
12/12 is good but firm, 14/14 is factory stock but a bit firm, though all these settings are pretty balanced as settings same front and rear

Latest tests and 9/8 & 9/8 works really well on the street. Think they will stay there for now.One click softer in the rear and you start to notice it, good, but a little softer.One click more then the front and it is more firm,my butt dyno has become well calibrated by now...lol I like the balanced settings vs the others, again as the car is about 50/50 balance also.Note rebound 10%more then bound is good and I have read recommended as best combo, other then if trying for more or less understeer then up that ends rebound.
One last bit, 1275 miles and coilovers havent settled one bit, like that, will see if they do later.
Well thats all. Merry Christmas and Happy holidays to all!!

Latest news. Coilovers have 1900 miles, no problems but now breaking in more. This has thrown some settings/ trials off. Some of the same front/rear settings now have some rear bounce. Tried all the recommended settings from Pedders and others from all the threads I found to get a good basic direction. For me and my setup none got rid of the rear bounce, by adding more rear rebound then on the front.That actually increased or caused the bounce, contrary to Pedders and others, theory being to control the rear more with the stiffer rear springs etc. Thats good for the auto x for more oversteer but not on the street. What works so far is 12/12 & 10/10 to start though that is good, just a bit rough or more road feel, but no bounce, lessoned the bound to 10 and 8 and that softened it up some.Now at 11/9 & 9/8 and was great on the freeways other then on a rough,choppy section of concrete freeway. Balanced around town and no bounce, just a little firm giggle feel from the back and thats most likely the stiff springs from what the pro's tell me, so all good. May go 10/9 & 8/7 but like it a little firm so will see.

Again this is what I like, and the fun of course is playing around with the settings to get what works, to bad these arent cockpit adjustables!

Sat. Auto X was fun, fast course, mostly 36-37 second range which were the fastest times for anyone out there and where we were all at, though "So Cal Camaro" did a 35! Of course those that know him will not be surprised. So Cal Race team did great, 7 of us out there. Mustangs not close mostly and Porsche guys we kept up with or beat probably had them confused a bit ...lol. I played with some settings in the softer street range which seemed to work,but no conclusive evidence one way or the other as far as I could tell with my limited experiance. I did much better then the last time the course was this fast by an average of 1.2 seconds. coilovers, larger Nitto's, driving faster and tire pressures I guess, but what helped or not I dont know.

Well last entry in the Log. 3200 miles, car has settled about 1/8th". I like the front the way is but raised the rear 5/16" to The Pedders 660mm hieght, front is 654. Like the look, wheel well gap is same front and rear now. Now that its broken in finally I keep the setting to 2-3, tired of messing with it and the differences aren't changing anything, just softer or firmer but same basic body movements and reactions to the different road surfaces. Keeping it at 9/8&12/8 or 11/10&14/10 range

That can only mean quicker lap times :headbang:

Reduced from the stiifer setting to the softer one I mentioned at Fontana and shaved off 1/2 second. Dont know if two clicks softer will
help but we'll see :thumbsup:

Only one way to find out!!

:thumbsup:

Used the setting for the last session of the day. Started at 37.4 and last lap of five was 36.7 as I got used to being able to push it more as the tires were grabbing more with a bit more lean. The best I got all day with the stiffer settings was 37.3 and average was mid 37's

Baron,

Question for you since you track Fontana too. Is the following pic normal for that track after two days'ish? Does that track eat tires that much? Or would tire choice and PSI setting help save some tire there?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1392861079

To me that tire looks like it has too much pressure in it and it ballooned in the middle and he/she wore it out in the middle. Thoughts?

I am not trying to "bust out" the individual who's tire this is but I am trying to understand what happened to this tire and whether it is track related or user error. Since I have never been on this track I am asking someone who has. Capece?

T.

I do not know F or R, Or alignment (info was not given). Pressure started at 37 Hot and then dropped 2 lbs. I tried to pry the info out. Car is a 1LE and I am guessing stock alignment.

That is why it is difficult to understand what happened to this tire.

T.

Fontana does that to tires, mine look the same. Now the center look I dont know. I start at 34/32 with my invo's and dont go past 37/35 after 5 runs.I have started at 35 and gone to 39 to40 but center didnt look like that.He maybe running to high on the street ? My wear is pretty even and run 1.2 degrees negative camber in front
now that I look at it more, not sure which is the outside part of the tire, guess the left view, its not just the center but wearing down from center all the way to the one edge? Could be camber setting is to much?

The left side is the outside. That's a PZero tire. I can tell by the tread pattern which matches pics of my old tires. I think you're right though, too much camber. Look at the pitch of the tread. It angles down to the inside. There might have been a little too much air as well, but I think the camber is the bigger issue.

Hey Mike, How are ya?

Yea, you know me, I run hard at Autobahn CC and Road America regularly and my tires never looked like that so when this person said that Fontana does this to tires I was shocked and thought maybe there was more to it. So I had to ask.

Thanks Baron.

T.