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Lifted07Sierra 09-17-2008 12:26 AM

Well we know the new camaro is going to tear apart any mustang
 
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1763828

Dont know how much its been discussed, but if the 08 LS3 vette is putting down 390rwhp. Id imagine at worse the new SS is going to be 370rwhp. Not to mention a few mods bringing it over 400rwhp :happyanim:

13F20 09-17-2008 12:33 AM

a little off.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131671)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1763828

Dont know how much its been discussed, but if the 08 LS3 vette is putting down 390rwhp. Id imagine at worse the new SS is going to be 370rwhp. Not to mention a few mods bringing it over 400rwhp :happyanim:

Bro the LS3 for the 2010 Camaro SS is putting out 422 rwhp, not 370 rwhp. Estmated to do 0-60 in 4.6sec.

Lifted07Sierra 09-17-2008 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13F20 (Post 131674)
Bro the LS3 for the 2010 Camaro SS is putting out 422 rwhp, not 370 rwhp. Estmated to do 0-60 in 4.6sec.

Isnt 422 the flywheel number?

Zieke 09-17-2008 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13F20 (Post 131674)
Bro the LS3 for the 2010 Camaro SS is putting out 422 rwhp, not 370 rwhp. Estmated to do 0-60 in 4.6sec.


actually, from what i know your both wrong.
the 422 is Bhp( base hors power) not rwhp wich goes strait to the tires.
the engine has its power rating(bhp), then theres the power that actually gets to the wheels(whp).

correct me if im wrong. but please prove with info, dont just state as fact.
thank you.

13F20 09-17-2008 12:40 AM

how is this for proof.
 
New render and details on the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SSPosted on 4-09-2008 by AndreyLeave your comment Category: Chevrolet, General Motors


Recently General Motors have put on their site the first official render and performance data of their top-spec SS (standing for Super Sport) version of the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro. And this version really deserves the Super Sport badge, being powered by a 6.2 litre V8 which comes with a choice of either manual or automatic transmission, both with 6 speeds.

Here start the differences, if you opt for the manual transmission, you’ll be getting the 6.2 litre V8 LS3 engine which can deliver up to 422 hp with 553 Nm of torque (or 408 lb.-ft.). Instead, if you choose an automatic gearbox, you’ll be gettin the 6.2 litre V8 L99 engine, which has, besides the standard LS3, GM’s Active Fuel Management system, which enables the engine to run only 4 cylinders on normal driving conditions, like in the city. This engine is capable of 400 hp and 535 Nm (395 lb.-ft.) of torque. Coupled with the automatic transmission, the SS will achieve an average of 23 mpg or 10.2 l/100km.

Congoman775 09-17-2008 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13F20 (Post 131678)
New render and details on the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SSPosted on 4-09-2008 by AndreyLeave your comment Category: Chevrolet, General Motors


Recently General Motors have put on their site the first official render and performance data of their top-spec SS (standing for Super Sport) version of the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro. And this version really deserves the Super Sport badge, being powered by a 6.2 litre V8 which comes with a choice of either manual or automatic transmission, both with 6 speeds.

Here start the differences, if you opt for the manual transmission, you’ll be getting the 6.2 litre V8 LS3 engine which can deliver up to 422 hp with 553 Nm of torque (or 408 lb.-ft.). Instead, if you choose an automatic gearbox, you’ll be gettin the 6.2 litre V8 L99 engine, which has, besides the standard LS3, GM’s Active Fuel Management system, which enables the engine to run only 4 cylinders on normal driving conditions, like in the city. This engine is capable of 400 hp and 535 Nm (395 lb.-ft.) of torque. Coupled with the automatic transmission, the SS will achieve an average of 23 mpg or 10.2 l/100km.


Yes... those are the bhp numbers

not what goes to the wheels.

Lifted07Sierra 09-17-2008 12:55 AM

Point is, the new SS should be able to hit 500bhp NA

13F20 09-17-2008 01:00 AM

yes we have a winner, Bob tell him what he has won. lol,lol,lol. sorry bro had to.

Congoman775 09-17-2008 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131694)
Point is, the new SS should be able to hit 500bhp NA

Correct. this has already been discused.

http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6684

headpunter 09-17-2008 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zieke (Post 131676)
actually, from what i know your both wrong.
the 422 is Bhp( base hors power) not rwhp wich goes strait to the tires.
the engine has its power rating(bhp), then theres the power that actually gets to the wheels(whp).

correct me if im wrong. but please prove with info, dont just state as fact.
thank you.

bhp is brake hp

that said i think it will be very good rwhp wise considering those numbers

nester7929 09-17-2008 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by op
Well we know the new camaro is going to tear apart any mustang

As long as it doesn't have "500" somewhere in the name. :)

Sorry, as a Mustang owner I feel obligated to point out the fact that Ford still has the factory top dog amongst the big three. I really wish Chevy would just flat out tell us if there's going to be a Z/28 or whatnot, I'm getting impatient with all this "could be/might be" stuff.

JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR 09-17-2008 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131671)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1763828

Dont know how much its been discussed, but if the 08 LS3 vette is putting down 390rwhp. Id imagine at worse the new SS is going to be 370rwhp. Not to mention a few mods bringing it over 400rwhp :happyanim:

Dude sorry but the LS3 Camaro has 422 HP. And the Vette LS3 has 430

Congoman775 09-17-2008 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR (Post 131709)
Dude sorry but the LS3 Camaro has 422 HP. And the Vette LS3 has 430

thats bph, not whp.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nester7929 (Post 131708)
As long as it doesn't have "500" somewhere in the name. :)

Sorry, as a Mustang owner I feel obligated to point out the fact that Ford still has the factory top dog amongst the big three. I really wish Chevy would just flat out tell us if there's going to be a Z/28 or whatnot, I'm getting impatient with all this "could be/might be" stuff.

Ill give ford credit.

they own the big dog from the factory.

That being said. modded car threads are worthless so Ford still gets big dog kudos.

But if you think the SS wont spank the GT500 after 3k worth of mods, none of which include a supercharger, than your in lala land.

520 hp 3800lbs vs. 500hp 3950lbs

That being said. Modded car threads are worthless. Ford still has the big dog here, so kudos to them.

fbird777 09-17-2008 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR (Post 131709)
Dude sorry but the LS3 Camaro has 422 HP. And the Vette LS3 has 430

430 is with the optioinal exhuast. 422 is NOT the rwhp number, it is definatley bhp. Agreeing with someones post above, I do believe the SS will have between 370-390rwhp STOCK. LS3 FTW:chevy:

JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR 09-17-2008 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congoman775 (Post 131711)
thats bph, not whp.




Ill give ford credit.

they own the big dog from the factory.

That being said. modded car threads are worthless so Ford still gets big dog kudos.

But if you think the SS wont spank the GT500 after 3k worth of mods, none of which include a supercharger, than your in lala land.

520 hp 3800lbs vs. 500hp 3950lbs

Either way it's still NaStY dude!

Zieke 09-17-2008 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter (Post 131703)
bhp is brake hp

that said i think it will be very good rwhp wise considering those numbers


thanks for the correction in my termanology. its been a long day. lol.

and i dont think we'll get the whp numbers until were darn close to being able to buy the car, or somebody gets it and tests it. we'll just have to wait.
for an example, my cousins 74 Nova blown 327, 110 octane fuel, gets 400 whp.

CHVY4LF 09-17-2008 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131671)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1763828

Dont know how much its been discussed, but if the 08 LS3 vette is putting down 390rwhp. Id imagine at worse the new SS is going to be 370rwhp. Not to mention a few mods bringing it over 400rwhp :happyanim:

if the vette is at 390 the SS should be around 380 i would expect

Supermans 09-17-2008 05:10 AM

Having IRS all around, the base SS Camaro around a twisty/curvy track should be able to keep up with the base GT500 mustang. In a straight line, that is another story.

radz28 09-17-2008 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congoman775 (Post 131711)
thats bph, not whp.
Ill give ford credit.

they own the big dog from the factory.

That being said. modded car threads are worthless so Ford still gets big dog kudos.

But if you think the SS wont spank the GT500 after 3k worth of mods, none of which include a supercharger, than your in lala land.

520 hp 3800lbs vs. 500hp 3950lbs

That being said. Modded car threads are worthless. Ford still has the big dog here, so kudos to them.

:word: Until that 500 adds a pulley, CAI, exhaust and tune... :yikes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermans (Post 131761)
Having IRS all around, the base SS Camaro around a twisty/curvy track should be able to keep up with the base GT500 mustang. In a straight line, that is another story.

:word: I think that 500 is going to charge really hard down the straights. I'm not sure SS would be able to keep up but I'm hoping so :D:drool:

SS4EVER 09-17-2008 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbird777 (Post 131713)
430 is with the optioinal exhuast. 422 is NOT the rwhp number, it is definatley bhp. Agreeing with someones post above, I do believe the SS will have between 370-390rwhp STOCK. LS3 FTW:chevy:

lol I thought with the optional exhaust the 2008 Corvette w LS3 puts out 436hp? (not to the wheels of course)

DGthe3 09-17-2008 10:18 AM

we don't know what sort of numbers the Camaro will put to the wheels. The Corvette has a very efficient driveline so losses are in the 10%-13% range. We shouldn't expect the Camaro to do as well as the Corvette, nice if it does though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS4EVER (Post 131810)
lol I thought with the optional exhaust the 2008 Corvette w LS3 puts out 436hp? (not to the wheels of course)

correct.

Lifted07Sierra 09-17-2008 10:23 AM

The GT500 also costs $15k-20k more than what the SS will :wave:

GOT PSI 09-17-2008 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131814)
The GT500 also costs $15k-20k more than what the SS will :wave:

We are all crossing our fingers.

13F20 09-17-2008 01:32 PM

Calm down bro.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131671)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1763828

Dont know how much its been discussed, but if the 08 LS3 vette is putting down 390rwhp. Id imagine at worse the new SS is going to be 370rwhp. Not to mention a few mods bringing it over 400rwhp :happyanim:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131814)
The GT500 also costs $15k-20k more than what the SS will :wave:

Bro first you quoted power numbers and were off. Now you are saying the Camaro SS will be 15-20K cheaper than the Shelby GT500, when pricing has not even been announced. We all hope it will cost that much less. But dude right now you are 0-2, and best to slow down while you are not quite so far ahead. Dude and for peat sake stop quoting info for fact unless you can back it up if challenged. Making assumptions or guesses is one thing and every one here does it. But when you start to say things that sound like info based off fact that does not exist, people that know better will challenge this simply because it can be debunked.

radz28 09-17-2008 03:22 PM

Let's cut him some slack.

He didn't quote misinformation about dyno' numbers as he referenced the 'Vette. Also, 'Father has said pricing will be close to Mustang and maybe a touch higher, so he's not far off there either. Please, let's not forget SS makes 422 bhp, not at the tire, as you pointed out. He's new so give him some time to catch up.

Thanks :)

nester7929 09-17-2008 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Sierra (Post 131814)
The GT500 also costs $15k-20k more than what the SS will :wave:

That would be freakin' awesome, especially since I saw a GT500 this week marked down to $39,999.

Unlikely, but awesome. I'd price the SS starting at high 20's if I were a betting man.

radz28 09-17-2008 03:29 PM

I don't see high-$20Ks out of the question yet, but this car is going to carry a premium over Mustang, Lutz has already said that. How much? Noone knows for sure yet - 'Father's hinted at not a whole lot but things can change. I believe we're getting confirmation around the beginning of the year.

SS4EVER 09-17-2008 03:37 PM

What scares me, is that a lot of the standard equipment (I think, and correct me if I'm wrong) that is coming on the SS, like the upgraded FE3 suspension, Brembo brakes, better wheels and tires, are similar features that are available on the SS, are not available on the Mustang, or Challenger mid level segment vehicles (GT & R/T). Those types of features come in their top level vehicles the GT500 priced @42k, and the SRT-8 priced @41k. And the SS power wise comes really close to the two.

So GM stating that the Camaro will be "competitively priced" could mean alot of things.

And seeing that the GTO, which I see a lot of things with the Camaro that parallel to it, wasn't even priced under 30k...

Just scares me I guess. But I'm just going to remain hopeful until official pricing gets released like everyone else here is.

rayhawk 09-17-2008 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=DGthe3;131811]we don't know what sort of numbers the Camaro will put to the wheels. The Corvette has a very efficient driveline so losses are in the 10%-13% range. We shouldn't expect the Camaro to do as well as the Corvette, nice if it does though.

Not trying to argue, but I don't really believe driveline losses can be any different from two vehicles with the same transmission and same basic setup...Where would the additional losses come from? I would believe the corvette has a slightly better exhaust setup (don't really know, just guessing) that might give it that extra 8 hp over the camaro, or perhaps a slightly different factory tune, which should show roughly the same 8 hp difference at the rear wheels.

Chassis dyno numbers can be very difficult to compare and driveline losses are calculated by assuming the flywheel hp given by the manufacturer is accurate. A ton of other variables come into play that make calculating drivetrain losses somewhat unreliable.

I am no expert on dyno testing but I just don't see where the difference would come from when comparing the corvette and camaro.

Mr. Wyndham 09-17-2008 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS4EVER (Post 131976)
And seeing that the GTO, which I see a lot of things with the Camaro that parallel to it, wasn't even priced under 30k...

The GTO was made in limited numbers, it was imported (just a rebadged Monaro), and Lutz has said it was overpriced in the past among other things regarding its not-so-hot sales...

headpunter 09-17-2008 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 131988)
The GTO was made in limited numbers, it was imported (just a rebadged Monaro), and Lutz has said it was overpriced in the past among other things regarding its not-so-hot sales...


:word:

radz28 09-17-2008 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=rayhawk;131977]
Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3 (Post 131811)
we don't know what sort of numbers the Camaro will put to the wheels. The Corvette has a very efficient driveline so losses are in the 10%-13% range. We shouldn't expect the Camaro to do as well as the Corvette, nice if it does though.

Not trying to argue, but I don't really believe driveline losses can be any different from two vehicles with the same transmission and same basic setup...Where would the additional losses come from? I would believe the corvette has a slightly better exhaust setup (don't really know, just guessing) that might give it that extra 8 hp over the camaro, or perhaps a slightly different factory tune, which should show roughly the same 8 hp difference at the rear wheels.

Chassis dyno numbers can be very difficult to compare and driveline losses are calculated by assuming the flywheel hp given by the manufacturer is accurate. A ton of other variables come into play that make calculating drivetrain losses somewhat unreliable.

I am no expert on dyno testing but I just don't see where the difference would come from when comparing the corvette and camaro.

I believe some of the losses are due to differing suspensions too. I couldn't tell you which one is more efficient but I've read that. Also, I don't think it will be quite as high as a base LS3 in the 'Vette because, unless I'm mistaken, the tires on that car are about 26-inches tall, where as SS is going to be something like 28-inches. There loss with the weight of the wheels/tires too that'll drag down the numbers. Gear ratios, although I think the rear gears are similar, will effect numbers - generally higher ratios consume more power. Because Camaro is heavier, I think the driveline components will be heavier too, not to mention I'm sure lighter materials were used where possible on the 'Vette too since they were aiming for a light-weight car.

IMVHO - two different cars with the same engine will just dyno differently.

SS4EVER 09-17-2008 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 131988)
The GTO was made in limited numbers, it was imported (just a rebadged Monaro), and Lutz has said it was overpriced in the past among other things regarding its not-so-hot sales...

Yes, very true. Hopefully they really learned from it and don't make the same mistake with the Camaro.

lalometalik 09-17-2008 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz282003 (Post 131805)
:word: I think that 500 is going to charge really hard down the straights. I'm not sure SS would be able to keep up but I'm hoping so :D:drool:

thats where the Z28 steps in! :wub:

at least i hope it does, eventually :x

radz28 09-17-2008 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalometalik (Post 132042)
thats where the Z28 steps in! :wub:

at least i hope it does, eventually :x

I like how you think :D:burnrubber:

rayhawk 09-17-2008 05:58 PM

[QUOTE=radz282003;132002]
Quote:

Originally Posted by rayhawk (Post 131977)

I believe some of the losses are due to differing suspensions too. I couldn't tell you which one is more efficient but I've read that. Also, I don't think it will be quite as high as a base LS3 in the 'Vette because, unless I'm mistaken, the tires on that car are about 26-inches tall, where as SS is going to be something like 28-inches. There loss with the weight of the wheels/tires too that'll drag down the numbers. Gear ratios, although I think the rear gears are similar, will effect numbers - generally higher ratios consume more power. Because Camaro is heavier, I think the driveline components will be heavier too, not to mention I'm sure lighter materials were used where possible on the 'Vette too since they were aiming for a light-weight car.

IMVHO - two different cars with the same engine will just dyno differently.


I can't argue with you there, all of those factors definitely come into play, it is just that you hear about these variables but you never really see them quantified. I think when you start adding all the variables you really just end up needing a baseline run before and after mods on the same dyno to come up with any meaningful numbers anyway.

Comparing numbers from different dyno's and different cars, (even the same cars) has to be done carefully because the absolute hp number is not as useful as the change in the number.

radz28 09-17-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayhawk (Post 132101)
I can't argue with you there, all of those factors definitely come into play, it is just that you hear about these variables but you never really see them quantified. I think when you start adding all the variables you really just end up needing a baseline run before and after mods on the same dyno to come up with any meaningful numbers anyway.

Comparing numbers from different dyno's and different cars, (even the same cars) has to be done carefully because the absolute hp number is not as useful as the change in the number.

Exactly. Shoot, the same car on the same dyno', at nearly the same time sometimes won't produce exactly the same numbers. I think it'll do good though. It'd be nice to see around 380 but I'm thinking closer to 360-370. Still, that won't be bad at all :D;):chevy:

Nexus6 09-17-2008 06:47 PM

weren't the HP numbers on the 4th gen UNDER rated? ,it may be the same with the 5th gen as well.

Congoman775 09-17-2008 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 131988)
The GTO was made in limited numbers, it was imported (just a rebadged Monaro), and Lutz has said it was overpriced in the past among other things regarding its not-so-hot sales...

The GTO came out with an MSRP of low 30's right?

well if low 30's was called 'expensive' then i think its more than just possible, i think its LIKELY that we see the SS MSRP in the high 20's.

:thumbup:

RLHMARINES 09-17-2008 07:01 PM

I was told by a person who works with the show and display folks at GM about 6 months ago during a show, that the production convertible was stunning in person. He also said that the high horsepower version of the camaro would be coming out a little after the launch of the convertible and that the power level was about 525 hp. He also said that due to the pending cafe changes that these high powered cars would not be offered for a very long production run. This guy seemed to be a reliable source especially when he said that he had sat in on a meeting about the camaro. He also told me about the billet gas cap being offered way before it was released by gm or shown in print anywhere.

I'am not saying it is fact, but just that it could still be possible.

If gm offered a lsa 6.2 thru gmg or slp, would this be counted under gm's cafe or be counted as a aftermarket tuner exemption or something? Anyone know how this would work?


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