2nd Track Day in my 1LE: Gingerman
 

This is the 2nd of 3 tracks I consider "Home" / have many miles on that I want to run the car completely stock at before I make any changes or upgrades

I went to Gingerman to instruct yesterday and ran the 1LE on stock tires, pads, suspension...so on again. (has Motul 600 fluid) As a point of reference, Gingerman is my "home" track as we have family property 4 miles from the track so I have a few miles on it: (about 35 to 40,000 :drool: )

My student again was Becky D from Rodgers in her white ZL1, which surprisingly did not melt during its first outing in the rain! There was one other ZL1 there (the red one) edit: that is a member here as well (Crangie). Thank you to him for providing the video of him chasing me around a few post below. Becky did very well, but I will let her share her lap times and experience if she wishes.

Thoughts/notes:

• Weather: 80 and sunny.....did not run in or after it rained.
• TC/Stability: All nannies completely off (held button for 7+ seconds)
• Brakes: Gingerman is very hard on brakes: stock brakes did very well/better than expected. No fade or soft pedal. (I only ran 2 (very hard) sessions) First step will be a compound change and air ducts
• Seat/belt: I spent more time trying to stay in my seat than anything else...Harness and or seat upgrade will be coming as they are a must.
• Gearing/tires: This is something I noticed at Grattan as well. There are some corners that 3rd didn't have a enough grunt (for me) and second was too aggressive and would result in wheel spin. In second the inside rear tire would break loose and spin on corner exit. In 3rd the tires set-up is perfect and worked fine.....If I want to drive more aggressively (drop into 2nd) I believe the 305 rear tire may help this. (a better limited slip would be the fix....but tires are cheaper to try).....I will also add power mods which will make this (perceived) lack of power in 3rd disappear, but may induce wheel spin in that gear?

The group I run with has a fairly unique run group system. Group 1: race rules, open passing, wheel to wheel OK, no rubbing. (serious race cars/fast street cars) Group 2: Wheel to Wheel OK, Point to pass in corners...then group 3 and 4 that are more conventional, limited passing, straights only, driver side only, instructor....

I ran in Group 2 as I am still getting a feel for the car. Some mentionables from my group were a stock Boss 302, Corvette GS: Race seats, Race tires, Corvette Z06: race tires, cam, headers, Stock ZL1, Mustang Bullet, Mustang Race car: gutted , cage, suspension, race tires,Spec Miata, RX8

Driver experience is unknown in all, but without exaggeration I had no issues with catching and passing or walking away from all of the above (and others) Reality caught me when a BMW 3 series race car slowly caught me.....but his rear wing was higher than the roof line and wider than the car so I figured that was OK :)

Note about the BOSS 302 (because I was going to by one before the 1LE package came out) I passed him in my first session and tried to talk with him....he really was not interested in talking with me :noidea: . In the second session I followed him out and then let him have a lap to warm up his tires. After he turned up the wick I noticed (just as magazines had stated) the rear of the car was not planted and he was fighting as it was dancing around.....After about a 1/2 lap of me knocking on his backdoor he let be by and by the end of the session he was at least 1/2 track (1 mile) behind)

Lap Times:

Fastest Lap: 1:47.34 (long course) Full tank of gas and with a passenger (Becky D) I backed it with other 47s and some 48s. I was slower in the second session with less fuel, no passenger and trying the 2nd gear downshift. I had more fun spinning and drifting in the second session but lap times suffered.

• Compared to Automobile Magazine with a race car driver in a GT500 and a ZL1 on the same course I am within 3 seconds of a ZL1 and about 2 of a GT500...I am OK with that for only two session in it.

Me:Stock 1LE: 1:47.34
2012 ZL1: 1:44.53
2013 GT500: 1.45.21

Pictures from tower during the downpour late afternoon and from Automobile magazine listing lap times and track layout.

Matt

Thank you for the Info. on your track day glad it when well for you .

Thanks again Matt for a great day at the track. I still can't believe
the patience you have to ride around with an old lady ;)

Riding with you was awesome. You didn't just pass the Mustangs
you chewed them up and spit them out!! They were no match. I
still giggle at your comments on the straight aways -"more power"
I'm sure you'll get that handled.

Thanks for posting real track experience. I'm sure there will be
several that can learn from it :nod:

My pleasure again!

Some people have ALL the fun!!

Sounds like you and Becky both had a great time Matt. I'm going to be looking at possibly trying to make it over for the C5 Gingerman event. Will you be attending that one?

My plan was to attend. But both family and work items have come up so I wont be able to make it. I decided to go on short notice to this event as I wanted to give Becky some pointers so she can lap some Camaros at the C5 event ;)

Sounds like an awesome day doing just what this car was made for. Nice to see Mustangs getting beat up on at the track :) Hopefully the Reccaros will help with the sliding around in the seat problem for the 14s.

I have your answer as for keeping your ass in your seat.This is totally a bolt in system.I have referred a couple C5'rs there.This is from when i had it in my 2011 1LT RS,i took it out and put it in my 1LE,i dont have any pics of that.I get nothing for this other then helping out another C5'r if you interested let me know and i will let you know who you need to contact.

Boy talk about dancing on egg sheels... :sm0:

LOL at the Boss driver not wanting to talk.

Thanks for sharing!

Hey Dale,that was funny, thanks for making me laugh :)

Matt,

the red one is member of this forum.

Here video proof of your whipping. The BMW was really fast, he came out of nowhere. I will post more later in the ZL1 forum

Thanks for sharing!

Hi Angelo!

I didn't know if you were on here or not....Thanks for posting the video...I thought I had my Go-Pro on but I didn't. And I am glad your video matched my description above so I don't look like a liar! :)

For everyone else, I am of course the Grey Camaro 1LE that is lined up in front of Crangie in his red ZL1....he wanted to follow me around a bit to see the lines.....but I had my eyes set on the Boss 302 right out of the gate. Near the end of the video I backed off a hair so we could do a little lead follow and within a lap they waved the checker.

Finally, Nice driving! Next time we are out together I want to give you a couple pointers there...(not enough to pass me, just enough to keep up! :) ) J/K, with a little fine tuning you will be whipping me in that beast.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt, how did ur front and rear tires look? My rear left was worn pretty good on the outside but front left was worst. I need rear camber bad, not sure how to fix this without lowering springs. Front I will try to go to -1.6 or so. Maybe I will run 30psi cold too on both axles.

Finally, any luck with the curbs there? Turn one curb would save a lot of time but my car could not take it. As soon as rear tire goes over it the car fishtails.

Cornerspeed. Is that a 4 Point Belt. I was looking at doing a similar set up for the track. With Harness and Tank Bar

No its 6pt.

Man the was bad azz would love to come with my 2010SS after mods and run a day with you all an get some pointers. Whats a day cost by the way????

I ordered the Rally 3 ASM (anti submarine). They said for the Camaro this is the model to get if you still want to use your backseat; I have kids.

So, once this is in, can I still use the factory three point harness too?

That BMW looked to be very modified. Nice writeup. I agree with your comments about third gear needing a little more oomph.

that's what the long tubes are for! :first:

Hey Brian,i have never heard of that one,send me a pic.In the mean time i took some new shots to try and show you the connection points,and yes i still use my 3pt every time i drive my car.This setup i have can be taken out in under 30 min.as you have heard me say this is totally bolt in.
Ok so pic #1 is just where the tank plate,and harness bar bolt to the factory belt anchor.
pic #2 and#3 are where it bolts to the factory anchor at top and the bottom. I also have the tank plate installed here as well, you can just barely see it.
pic #4 and #5 are just the same thing,only the drivers side.
pic #6 is a good pic of the tank plate,and how it bolts right under the seat rails,you can also see how the tank plate,harness bar,and the original 3pt belt bolts right in,and as you can see there is no interference what so ever.
pic #7 is just a good close up of the connection point.

2nd Track Day in my 1LE: Gingerman
 

Mark:

It's a Schroth harness. Should I get the pads too?

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...allye/rallye-3

Thanks for your write up. Going to read it now.

Brian

PS - I think we went off topic. Maybe we ought to move this to a new thread. :-O

I think we are talking about two different things.The belts are one thing,and the harness bar is another.In my set up the Schroth belts hook to the harness bar,and tank plate,what are you hooking your belts to? And as far as the pads go, that's something i thought about because of the 2 pics im including.The 1st pic is the night of my 130 mph get off,the 2nd is 6 months later after it wouldn't heal, they had to do surgery.When im a passenger in a car i wont wear the shoulder part of the belt,so i was obviously concerned about my 6pt,and thought about getting the pads,they were pricy(well from what i remember i think they were like $75.00).No you dont need to waste any money on them, i have absolutely no issues,and my belts are over this :)
Let me know if you have any questions.Mark

I also plan on getting the Schroth ASM belts for my car. I plan on testing out the car with recaros only first before i upgrade. Are you sure the ralleye 3 fits, i thought we needed the ralleye 4 setup. I will look into this.

Dropspeed, what are you using for track lap recorder? I have trackmaster on my phone but i have not used it yet.

HM Motorsports said only the 3 would work. But now Cornerspeed has spooked me so I need to see if the harness works without the tank plates.

From HM "It’s designed to use the stock mounting locations for the lap belts, and the shoulder belt will mount to the C-pillar, where the factory 3 point is attached."

I just emailed Schroth. There website says the Rallye 4 should be used in all cars that when the rear straps are attached they create at least a 45 degree angle. If the angle is too tight then use the Rallye 3. I have no way to test out either. I thought someone on this forum was using the Rallye 4 kit.

Also, isn't running a 5 &6 point harness illegal witout a roll bar? Because in a roll over you won't slip out and are prone to neck and head trauma or worse compared to a 4 point with ASM or stock 3 point which let you mOve around. This is what I have read elsewhere.

No it's not illegal to run without a roll bar.In the event im missing something,and not quite understanding,or the other way around.How are you going to attach the shoulder part of the belt?The point of my harness bar is for the shoulder part of the belts to attach to,that is also the appropriate height and angle in the event of a roll over to keep me in my seat.As well what are you attaching the lap portion of the belt to.If this is designed to bolt in then you can only use what you already have,which is a 3pt.

When i was getting all the info i needed to make my decision,i was going to have to have someone cut holes in my floor and weld anchor points for my belts.Whether you go with 4,5or 6pt,it has to have somewhere to anchor,and this is what the tank plate is for.As you know it's totally bolt in and no holes were drilled.
Pic#1 is how my shoulder part is attached
Pic#2 is how the 2 side,and crotch parts attach,whether it's a 4,5,or 6pt there has to be an anchor point.

Any chance the electronic throttle opening tips in a little too aggressively for when you're still carrying a lot of lateral acceleration? At autocross (pretty much a 2nd gear only activity) this has been an issue in the current Mustangs. Terry Fair battled it for a season or so at National-level STX. And I've experienced something very similar with a mechanical-throttle aftermarket EFI on a 355 SBC, so I doubt it's a marque-specific problem. It's impressive on the pre-purchase test drive and in certain street driving situations to have snappy response, but too much of a good thing can get in the way when you're seriously trying in the corners. Perhaps it can be toned down with a road course oriented tune.

Damned if I know why the driver of the Boss wouldn't want to talk. If I was him, I'd appreciate any feedback that might help. I did see it suddenly turn in a whole lot more sharply in the left hander in the video - any chance you know who it was (I may know him from some Mustang forum). I think I know what else you saw, too.


Norm

The bad thing with a 5 &6 point hsrenss with no roll over protection is when the roof collapses your body is held in place so your head and neck will be next. A 3 point or 4 point with ASM will allow your shoulders to slip out so you don't get crushed.

Sorry, was offline a few days so I will try to catch up.

Tire looked good all the way around..no uneven wear or issues. As far as rear camber I am pretty sure my car had more adjustment but I didn't want anymore and looking at the tires don't appear to need it


I ran the turn one curb on every-lap without issue. no fishtail or loose rear end on corner exit.


Depending on the event figure from $125 to about $200 for a day



Harry's Lap Timer for Iphone....I just use the $9.99 rookie edition right now.

I don't believe that was the issue as much as the right rear wheel "lifting" as the left front was compressed. After some conversation on here with Pete at Pedders this is one of the reason they increase the Camaro front spring rates. I have found with the LS3 that the tires break traction at the top of the gears as RPMs increase (as does HP/Torque) so it appears to be a combination of the two items mentioned above.


This session was the second time I was behind him on track and passed him so I think he just wanted to get our of the way? And to be clear he was not rude in anyway....I am talkative at the track and he was just not interested in conversation so I let it be. No idea who he was or where he was from.


-Matt

Well, I ended up returning the harness. Cornerspeed was correct. Goodies Speed Shop was willing to install it at first but then decided it'd be a death trap and suggested I reconsider for two reasons. The harness was twisted under the headrest for one and then had to incline upward to the C pillar for another. They postulated that in a crash this upward tension would pop the head rest off thus creating slack in the harness toward the c pillar. And with slack the harness would not long properly hold the driver in.


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