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Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com (https://www.camaro5.com/forums/index.php)
-   Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics (https://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=85)
-   -   Road and Track: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - First Look (https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135719)

G8GT4now 03-22-2011 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 2995402)
I think with less weight, bigger tires, and what looks like a lower center of gravity, we'll have more than a tad bit better performance. Regardless - CTS-V performs outstanding. Only the Panamera runs better to my knowledge.
From a dig, yes the Panamera Turbo walks the V. AWD and lauch control help the Porsche ALOT.

However from a 30 mph rolling start it is a drivers race.

I expect the ZL1 to beat the CTS-V in a drag race.

radz28 03-22-2011 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G8GT4now (Post 2995843)
From a dig, yes the Panamera Turbo walks the V. AWD and lauch control help the Porsche ALOT.

However from a 30 mph rolling start it is a drivers race.

I expect the ZL1 to beat the CTS-V in a drag race.
:thumbsup: I should hope so, lol.

BTW - NICE RIDE!!! I just noticed :drool::respekt:

OldScoolCamaro 03-22-2011 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk 1027 (Post 2986827)
I also wouldn't mind losing a ZL1 badge or two.....
I agree...as they say, "less is more". Memo to GM: Remove all the ZL1 emblems from the inside, way overkill and redundant, keep four as seen on the outside for retro look (front & rear, both sides of hood) and keep the the wheel etchings for modern style. I digress.."signs, signs, everywhere a sign..., blocking out the scenery breaking my mind..." (5 Man Electrical Band/Hippie Music Lyrics) :chevy:

BoostedX2 03-22-2011 06:04 PM
Dude, I am so ready for the Zl-1. I want GM to go all out, don't care about a gas guzzler tax IF the performance is fantatstic. Make it affordable (<55K MSRP) and I will have one. I expect sub 12 1/4 mile times. I am tired of moding my SS and want a car that performs from the factory!!!

Blackdevil77 03-22-2011 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T (Post 2996325)
Dude, I am so ready for the Zl-1. I want GM to go all out, don't care about a gas guzzler tax IF the performance is fantatstic. Make it affordable (<55K MSRP) and I will have one. I expect sub 12 1/4 mile times. I am tired of moding my SS and want a car that performs from the factory!!!
A MEN!!! I'm more concerned about the trap speeds. I'd like to see trap speeds of around 119-120. High 11's would be awsome with those trap speeds!

2010SSRSM6 03-22-2011 06:42 PM
Maybe after the SS is paid off I can swing another Camaro into the garage. The $55k price estimate seems a tick low for all that this car will come with. I'd bet it will be closer to $59k-$62k before additional mark-ups, tax, destination fees, etc. Looking at the price for a 4LT Corvette with SRC and dual mode exhaust puts the price up there without adding the price for the forged LSA or the TVS1900 and additional components that go along with that.

Hopefully it will come in lower, but I just don't see how. My almost fully loaded SS was $44k after tax, lic and dest. The ZL1 is going to be a huge step up from the SS in every aspect. That step up comes with a hefty price tag attached to it.

The base price on a 2012 GT 500, that is no where near the ZL1 in terms of technology is $49,495. Add the GT 500 performance package and upgraded Recaro seats and your already up to $55,085. This is an inferior product (technology wise) and the base GT already starts $2k less than the SS.

I just don't see the $55k price for the ZL1 working out. Maybe for the left over 2012's that are sitting on dealership lots when the 2013's roll in, but not right away for a new one.

Vega 03-22-2011 07:54 PM
Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<

Blackdevil77 03-22-2011 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega (Post 2996799)
Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<
This may be un-related to what your saying but I remember one of the GM reps saying something like they don't have to limit the ZL1 in terms of it's performance to keep it in a certain spot, like under the vettes performance. Same with the 1969 ZL1, that out-performed the vette and at the time, was the fastest car Chevy ever produced

truth411 03-22-2011 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega (Post 2996799)
Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<
:facepalm: Don't even know where to begin with that one so I am not even going to try but a couple of points for your selective memory.

1. The camaro and corvette does not compete with each other. There is virtualy no cross shopping, same goes for the caddy.

2. The reason the camaro won't ever out perform the vette is because its 600+lbs lighter and has less drag and more tire. Power is not everything.

3. its the 2nd model year, the reasons the 2011 mustangs are good is because ford responed to the 2010 camaros which out performed the 2010 mustangs. I expect Gm will use the 2012 MY to get back at Ford. I am curious as to what the FE4 suspension package is for the SS.

4. Gen V V8s are coming soon, and I am guessing GM's 8spd transmissions should be ready by then to.

PYROLYSIS 03-22-2011 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega (Post 2996799)
Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<
I agree with you that GM has historically looked at Ford's products as a benchmark to see how they should build a competitive vehicle. They would never admit to being followers, nor should they. The Corvette came before the Mustang, and as much as we try (and mostly succeed) at 1 upping the mustang with Camaro, they try twice as hard and fail at 1 upping Corvette. When Ford releases a new Mustang it tests the market and assumes some of the risk that GM would have to take if they tried it first. Ford releasing a new Mustang and then GM evaluating it and coming out with something better is an advantage for GM. I'm also not sure where you're getting the idea that the ZL1 will only barely outperform the GT500. Even though we've seen it and know the power train, we have to view it as knowing very little because it hasn't been publicly tested and driven yet.

Mr. Wyndham 03-22-2011 10:12 PM
I can't possibly post enough ":facepalm:"'s in this thread....


Some of you guys call yourselves enthusiasts? :rolleyes:

It's okay to not feel the car...that's called an opinion, and perfectly normal - even for a die-hard enthusiast. But it's not okay to assume it's junk before its even out, and start bashing the ZL1 because you don't think you like it.

For those who believe it's nothing more than a supercharged Camaro with a warranty...there's no nice way to say it...you're wrong. Please read here. And here.

For those who are assuming an astronomical price, and thus a failure - no pricing has been announced, but you can safely assume it will be priced competitively.

SSmoked 03-22-2011 10:23 PM
^^
+1.
and even with the paper stats on the ZL1, NO ONE will truely know the perforomance of the ZL1 until its tested in the real world.

So brace yourselves people for a long year of bench racing. Cause first quarter 2012 we'll find out what the ZL1 has.

I truely think tho GM should have the LS9 available for the Z. Why because in 69 when the ZL1 was out it had the baddest motor GM had at the time the all aluminum 427 big block. Currently the LS9 is the baddest motor GM has.Iit would only make historical sence to place it in the ZL1. One can dream right?

Qdiesel 03-22-2011 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSmoked (Post 2997547)
^^
+1.
and even with the paper stats on the ZL1, NO ONE will truely know the perforomance of the ZL1 until its tested in the real world.
Really, we don't even know the stats yet, exept for what GM has given us. " At least 550 hp". That's all we really know. I'm all for the theoretical battles and hype being generated but to say it will barely outperform is just wrong. Just sit back and enjoy this hp war while we can...

HashimAzzouz 03-23-2011 08:10 AM
sweet o sweet :)

alex33x 03-23-2011 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdiesel (Post 2997575)
Really, we don't even know the stats yet, exept for what GM has given us. " At least 550 hp". That's all we really know. I'm all for the theoretical battles and hype being generated but to say it will barely outperform is just wrong. Just sit back and enjoy this hp war while we can...
They might match the new GT500 rumored to have 620hp.

OldJedi 03-23-2011 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega (Post 2996799)
Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<
The only 'fact' that we have so far is that the GT500 will most likely weigh less than the ZL1. Everything else is pure speculation. We DO NOT KNOW everything that the ZL1 can do or what it will have until it is released. I can guarantee you that the car will be tested by every car magazine and would-be writer that can get their hands on the suede steering wheel. To write off the ZL1 before it is finalized and ready for production is truly pointless and a waste of time.

Ford did a great job with the Boss 302 and personally I would rather have the Boss than a GT500 if I were looking to buy a Ford, which I am not. We do not know if the Boss can beat a ZL1 until they are tested at the same time on the same track. I am sure that someone will test these two together in the coming year. Until then, I am going to keep my confidence that the ZL1 will be a very unique car that can take on what the world sends to compete against it and let the chips fall where they will on a level playing field.

Z28RockStar 03-23-2011 04:13 PM
/popcorn

:)

GreenMonster 03-23-2011 04:20 PM
pics look amazing I love the "new" interior minus the steering wheel

Milk 1027 03-23-2011 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punk_rider (Post 2988978)
Well .. to me that's a Formula1/Ferrari/Audi/... like wheel (the flat base).

Besides, if the zl1 is supposed to be the "drag" version of the camaro ... who needs a flat base wheel? Who needs a wheel actually! I mean, i see it as an design being at the same time ugly (that's personal ... i hate Sparks ..), useless (c'mon ... is the camaro really lacking so much room that your knees would touch the wheel?) AND expensive.
This so much more than a drag car.

And so much more than a supercharged camaro with suspension upgrade.

Qdiesel 03-23-2011 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex33x (Post 2998707)
They might match the new GT500 rumored to have 620hp.

There is no need to. GT500s already can't put all the power down that they already have. How else do you explain a GT500 being just as fast as a Super Snake?? Who cares if you have 620 if you can't put it down? Give me 550 or 600 with traction control/PTM and get most of that down to the ground!!

99-LS1-SS 03-23-2011 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T (Post 2996325)
Dude, I am so ready for the Zl-1. I want GM to go all out, don't care about a gas guzzler tax IF the performance is fantatstic. Make it affordable (<55K MSRP) and I will have one. I expect sub 12 1/4 mile times. I am tired of moding my SS and want a car that performs from the factory!!!
Quoted for the true! I modified my GXP right out of my possession. It became more trouble and cost than it was worth.

I need to change my sig.

alex33x 03-23-2011 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdiesel (Post 3001271)
There is no need to. GT500s already can't put all the power down that they already have. How else do you explain a GT500 being just as fast as a Super Snake?? Who cares if you have 620 if you can't put it down? Give me 550 or 600 with traction control/PTM and get most of that down to the ground!!
And I agree 100% even the new boss is faster than the GT500. Because of the traction problems.

Z4me 03-23-2011 10:17 PM
Tic tock how many more years do we still have remaining
to enjoy the sheer power of a V8 muscle car with mpg
regulations going into affect in the not to distant future.
Personally I have nothing against the camaro's competition
and welcome the challenge this provides Chevy.
I"m kinda tired of the "Winers", who expect to receive a
competitive car ala "LZ1" at a price not consistent with
the costs of manufacturing involved. I'll be out passing some
nice cheese to go with all the Winers out there. Lets be
a little thankful to all those involved who have had the
dreams and passion to make all of this a reality for us to
enjoy!
to fbodfather and the camaro team thankyou for having
spirit, tenacity,drive, and passion to keep moving forward
with bringing us the best camaro's for us to enjoy!!:respekt:

tgdtown 03-23-2011 11:01 PM
I would need to see the ZL1 in person & test drive it before I trade my SS for one... Fact is I love my SS and can't see my self getting rid of it for some "just cool pics".... I must see it!!!

CAMARO-ECSTASY 03-23-2011 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4me (Post 3002179)
Tic tock how many more years do we still have remaining
to enjoy the sheer power of a V8 muscle car with mpg
regulations going into affect in the not to distant future.
Personally I have nothing against the camaro's competition
and welcome the challenge this provides Chevy.
I"m kinda tired of the "Winers", who expect to receive a
competitive car ala "LZ1" at a price not consistent with
the costs of manufacturing involved. I'll be out passing some
nice cheese to go with all the Winers out there. Lets be
a little thankful to all those involved who have had the
dreams and passion to make all of this a reality for us to
enjoy!
to fbodfather and the camaro team thankyou for having
spirit, tenacity,drive, and passion to keep moving forward
with bringing us the best camaro's for us to enjoy!!:respekt:
:word:


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