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-   -   SS/Z (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124730)

thePill 01-18-2011 01:50 AM

SS/Z
 
SS/Z

"Z" has been a symbol of performance whether it be straight line or handling since the beginning of GM performance. ZR1, Z06, ZL1 and Z28 are the most popular but using the "Z" incorporated into the name met just a little more. the IROC-Z proved to be more popular upon release in 1985 and eventually led to the Z28 being discontinued in 1988. I'm not saying bring back the IROC-Z, I am saying that for this HP edition, top of the line SS.. merely incorporate the "Z" designator and apply it to the SS name.

This car will in fact be a severely upgraded SS and in my opinion, the real Z28 wouldn't need F55 MRC, Forced Induction or weight well over 4000lbs (Which is why GM may withhold the name plate). Give the Z/28 the Z06 treatment, the Z51 option, drop 200lbs, in fact... If you want to know what a new Z/28 should look like, google "2010 Sunoco Camaro" and there you have it... the old Z/28 looked just like the other Camaros but it was the rest of the car that made it different.

This said "SS/Z" wouldn't automatically play second fiddle to a lower costing Z/28, The Boss can't run down a GT500 in the quarter, the GT500 has every available option any owner could ever want. That doesn't mean the Z/28 would be the lesser car either, both cars would draw completely different crowds. The SS/Z would take its place among the other SS lineup, the 1SS, 2SS, SSX (Z/28) and the SS/Z and would actually bridge the gap in both performance and the name plates together from the SS>Z28>SSZ.. best of both worlds, Super Sport power, Z28 handling, Halo car Sport coupe luxury all packaged in a 4200lbs, $55,000 dollar, limited edition run...

If you want everything, get the SS/Z, if you are a serious road racer, get the Z/28.. You want to mod for drag racing, get the 1SS/2SS.. Don't want a V8, get the LTs or get the RS (V6 performance pack like Ford has with some SS/Z28 suspension) and you have a full lineup covering almost every aspect that a consumer would hope for...

I vote we eliminate the "which is better, SS or Z/28" argument. Having a top dog that wears both the badges would tell consumers that it is everything they ever wanted in the Camaro as a whole but the Z/28 will still be reserved for the hard core, out of the box race car crowd that it was in the beginning and the SS will continue to dominate sales with a lower MSRP, comfort, options, power and provide a great base for the after market... In the end, who wins?

radz28 01-18-2011 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thePill (Post 2741270)
SS/Z

"Z" has been a symbol of performance whether it be straight line or handling since the beginning of GM performance. ZR1, Z06, ZL1 and Z28 are the most popular but using the "Z" incorporated into the name met just a little more. the IROC-Z proved to be more popular upon release in 1985 and eventually led to the Z28 being discontinued in 1988. I'm not saying bring back the IROC-Z, I am saying that for this HP edition, top of the line SS.. merely incorporate the "Z" designator and apply it to the SS name.

This car will in fact be a severely upgraded SS and in my opinion, the real Z28 wouldn't need F55 MRC, Forced Induction or weight well over 4000lbs (Which is why GM may withhold the name plate). Give the Z/28 the Z06 treatment, the Z51 option, drop 200lbs, in fact... If you want to know what a new Z/28 should look like, google "2010 Sunoco Camaro" and there you have it... the old Z/28 looked just like the other Camaros but it was the rest of the car that made it different.

This said "SS/Z" wouldn't automatically play second fiddle to a lower costing Z/28, The Boss can't run down a GT500 in the quarter, the GT500 has every available option any owner could ever want. That doesn't mean the Z/28 would be the lesser car either, both cars would draw completely different crowds. The SS/Z would take its place among the other SS lineup, the 1SS, 2SS, SSX (Z/28) and the SS/Z and would actually bridge the gap in both performance and the name plates together from the SS>Z28>SSZ.. best of both worlds, Super Sport power, Z28 handling, Halo car Sport coupe luxury all packaged in a 4200lbs, $55,000 dollar, limited edition run...

If you want everything, get the SS/Z, if you are a serious road racer, get the Z/28.. You want to mod for drag racing, get the 1SS/2SS.. Don't want a V8, get the LTs or get the RS (V6 performance pack like Ford has with some SS/Z28 suspension) and you have a full lineup covering almost every aspect that a consumer would hope for...

I vote we eliminate the "which is better, SS or Z/28" argument. Having a top dog that wears both the badges would tell consumers that it is everything they ever wanted in the Camaro as a whole but the Z/28 will still be reserved for the hard core, out of the box race car crowd that it was in the beginning and the SS will continue to dominate sales with a lower MSRP, comfort, options, power and provide a great base for the after market... In the end, who wins?

Hmm... that's something I didn't see coming... Hmm... GREAT points regardless. What about "SSZ"? I only ask since GM got rid of the "/", but I don't have a problem bringing it back. It certainly makes sense having it there, to kind of distinguish the two badges. I think I'm just visualizing SSX Concept, that's why I'm looking at it like that.

GREAT thread!!! I'd vote for this as a contender!

oldfriend 01-18-2011 11:40 AM

2ss
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 2741944)
Hmm... that's something I didn't see coming... Hmm... GREAT points regardless. What about "SSZ"? I only ask since GM got rid of the "/", but I don't have a problem bringing it back. It certainly makes sense having it there, to kind of distinguish the two badges. I think I'm just visualizing SSX Concept, that's why I'm looking at it like that.

GREAT thread!!! I'd vote for this as a contender!

Will it be okay if someone wanted one of each ?:mad0259:

radz28 01-18-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfriend (Post 2741961)
Will it be okay if someone wanted one of each ?:mad0259:

I'd encourage someone with the means to buy each of them, LOL!

OldScoolCamaro 01-18-2011 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thePill (Post 2741270)
SS/Z

"Z" has been a symbol of performance whether it be straight line or handling since the beginning of GM performance. ZR1, Z06, ZL1 and Z28 are the most popular but using the "Z" incorporated into the name met just a little more. the IROC-Z proved to be more popular upon release in 1985 and eventually led to the Z28 being discontinued in 1988. I'm not saying bring back the IROC-Z, I am saying that for this HP edition, top of the line SS.. merely incorporate the "Z" designator and apply it to the SS name.

This car will in fact be a severely upgraded SS and in my opinion, the real Z28 wouldn't need F55 MRC, Forced Induction or weight well over 4000lbs (Which is why GM may withhold the name plate). Give the Z/28 the Z06 treatment, the Z51 option, drop 200lbs, in fact... If you want to know what a new Z/28 should look like, google "2010 Sunoco Camaro" and there you have it... the old Z/28 looked just like the other Camaros but it was the rest of the car that made it different.

This said "SS/Z" wouldn't automatically play second fiddle to a lower costing Z/28, The Boss can't run down a GT500 in the quarter, the GT500 has every available option any owner could ever want. That doesn't mean the Z/28 would be the lesser car either, both cars would draw completely different crowds. The SS/Z would take its place among the other SS lineup, the 1SS, 2SS, SSX (Z/28) and the SS/Z and would actually bridge the gap in both performance and the name plates together from the SS>Z28>SSZ.. best of both worlds, Super Sport power, Z28 handling, Halo car Sport coupe luxury all packaged in a 4200lbs, $55,000 dollar, limited edition run...

If you want everything, get the SS/Z, if you are a serious road racer, get the Z/28.. You want to mod for drag racing, get the 1SS/2SS.. Don't want a V8, get the LTs or get the RS (V6 performance pack like Ford has with some SS/Z28 suspension) and you have a full lineup covering almost every aspect that a consumer would hope for...

I vote we eliminate the "which is better, SS or Z/28" argument. Having a top dog that wears both the badges would tell consumers that it is everything they ever wanted in the Camaro as a whole but the Z/28 will still be reserved for the hard core, out of the box race car crowd that it was in the beginning and the SS will continue to dominate sales with a lower MSRP, comfort, options, power and provide a great base for the after market... In the end, who wins?

So the Z28 will sorta then be offered like the old 1LE you think? :chevy:

Mr. Wyndham 01-18-2011 08:44 PM

There are only two issues I have with this concept.

1) It doesn't separate from the "first gen rules all" philosophy behind the Z28 that I disagree with.

and

2) It assumes another Hi-Po Camaro model after the 'HP Edition'...It's only a personal believe of mine that there will be none for the 5th generation given CAFE standards and GM's obligation to performance in other brands...

But there's plenty of sound logic behind the idea, if I didn't see those as issue. :)

BobbieOH 01-18-2011 10:11 PM

Camaro Z28
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thePill (Post 2741270)
SS/Z

"Z" has been a symbol of performance whether it be straight line or handling since the beginning of GM performance. ZR1, Z06, ZL1 and Z28 are the most popular but using the "Z" incorporated into the name met just a little more. the IROC-Z proved to be more popular upon release in 1985 and eventually led to the Z28 being discontinued in 1988. I'm not saying bring back the IROC-Z, I am saying that for this HP edition, top of the line SS.. merely incorporate the "Z" designator and apply it to the SS name.

This car will in fact be a severely upgraded SS and in my opinion, the real Z28 wouldn't need F55 MRC, Forced Induction or weight well over 4000lbs (Which is why GM may withhold the name plate). Give the Z/28 the Z06 treatment, the Z51 option, drop 200lbs, in fact... If you want to know what a new Z/28 should look like, google "2010 Sunoco Camaro" and there you have it... the old Z/28 looked just like the other Camaros but it was the rest of the car that made it different.

This said "SS/Z" wouldn't automatically play second fiddle to a lower costing Z/28, The Boss can't run down a GT500 in the quarter, the GT500 has every available option any owner could ever want. That doesn't mean the Z/28 would be the lesser car either, both cars would draw completely different crowds. The SS/Z would take its place among the other SS lineup, the 1SS, 2SS, SSX (Z/28) and the SS/Z and would actually bridge the gap in both performance and the name plates together from the SS>Z28>SSZ.. best of both worlds, Super Sport power, Z28 handling, Halo car Sport coupe luxury all packaged in a 4200lbs, $55,000 dollar, limited edition run...

If you want everything, get the SS/Z, if you are a serious road racer, get the Z/28.. You want to mod for drag racing, get the 1SS/2SS.. Don't want a V8, get the LTs or get the RS (V6 performance pack like Ford has with some SS/Z28 suspension) and you have a full lineup covering almost every aspect that a consumer would hope for...

I vote we eliminate the "which is better, SS or Z/28" argument. Having a top dog that wears both the badges would tell consumers that it is everything they ever wanted in the Camaro as a whole but the Z/28 will still be reserved for the hard core, out of the box race car crowd that it was in the beginning and the SS will continue to dominate sales with a lower MSRP, comfort, options, power and provide a great base for the after market... In the end, who wins?

-----
I started my love affair with the Camaro later in life @ age 53 .
First Camaro was a 1990 Z28 Convertible
Second Camaro was a 1993 Z28 TTop
Third Camaro was a 1994 Z28 TTop
Fourth Camaro for my daughter was a 1995 Z28 TTop
Fifth Camaro was a 1997 30th Anniversary SS
Sixth Camaro was a 1995 Z28 Convertible to replace the 1990 Convertible


So now all I have is the 1997 30th Anniversary TTop with Vortech Supercharger . This vehicle was purchased new in 1997 & supercharger system installed within weeks of purchase .Vehicle now has 17,000 miles which is really low mileage . Also have the 1995 Z28 Convertible . My daughter traded the 1995 Z28 & now has a 1996 SS with lots of Mods .

Ok I have lots of experience with both the Z28 & the SS .
In 1997 SLP would do the performance & appearance conversion for GM @ their St. Threase Canadian Plant .
Hood was changed to accomodate the forced air induction .
Exhaust was changed to twin 3 inch pipes
Paint job & interior upgraded to reflect the higher price & higher performance of the SS over the Z28 .
Bilstein suspension changes for better performance handling .

So my logic is we have the six cylinder family of vehicles , then add the Z28 but the present two levels of SS are the King of the Road as far as Camaros .

I kind of like your idea of blending in a Z with the SS .
S

BobbieOH 01-18-2011 10:23 PM

Z28 , SSZ , ZSS , ZSS4
 
Forgot to mention my driving vehicle is a CTS 4 All wheel drive which is the only reason I am not purchasing another Camaro . My wife wont drive a stick & really likes the 4 wheel drive .

Maybe a 4 Wheel drive ZSS4 Camaro is the answer to my situation with Auto . Make the gears 3.73 as an option .


Any takers

Mr. Wyndham 01-18-2011 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbieOH (Post 2744215)
Forgot to mention my driving vehicle is a CTS 4 All wheel drive which is the only reason I am not purchasing another Camaro . My wife wont drive a stick & really likes the 4 wheel drive .

Maybe a 4 Wheel drive ZSS4 Camaro is the answer to my situation with Auto . Make the gears 3.73 as an option .


Any takers

I'd miss the smokey burnouts....;)

thePill 01-19-2011 05:16 AM

I Googled SS/Z to see if the name had been used before and found that Holden (a GM subsidiary in Australia) produced an SSZ Commodore Sedan in 2005 that started at $49,990. A total of 930 examples were initially produced. It was a performance-oriented SS variant...

GM has used the name before and I swear I did not know that...

Maybe I should apply at GM's Sales and Marketing division...

thePill 01-19-2011 05:37 AM

If I did have Cheryl Piltcher's job as product manager, this is how I would set it up...
2012:
1LT/2LT Base V6 models
RS: track packed Camaro with Z28 lightweight suspension components. In '68-'69 it was possible to combine the Z/28 package with the RS package so it makes sense.
1SS/2SS: Base V8 models and base for GMPs aftermarket.
Z28: Factory built race car, GM offers a Factory race car from GM performance for the SCCA and Koni guys maybe the SSX or a ZR28 (Like the Boss 302R)
SS/Z: Offer all of the above, upgrade from Z51s to the F55s, Nav, multiple seat options, T-Tops!!!.. it will be the its up to the consumer if they want to go performance or load it.

But that's just me.

thePill 01-19-2011 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 2743808)
There are only two issues I have with this concept.

1) It doesn't separate from the "first gen rules all" philosophy behind the Z28 that I disagree with.

and

2) It assumes another Hi-Po Camaro model after the 'HP Edition'...It's only a personal believe of mine that there will be none for the 5th generation given CAFE standards and GM's obligation to performance in other brands...

But there's plenty of sound logic behind the idea, if I didn't see those as issue. :)

1.) Try not to look at this Z28 being the "last" Z28, the 6th Gen will surely assume a more modern philosophy and surely the 6th rendition will call on the other Gens.

2.) I was referring to the HP Edition being the SS/Z and that there is no 4th V8 option... SS>Z28>SS/Z, three models, three different classes and direction.

thePill 01-19-2011 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro (Post 2743791)
So the Z28 will sorta then be offered like the old 1LE you think? :chevy:

This thread is all speculation and with the exception of some references to the past, are all my own opinion and has zero truth.

I think the Z28 will go back to the track, where it was born.. I also think that Fords decision to release the Boss as a stripped down GT with extra performance may have stirred something up.

I believe, the future of the V8 lies in special editions and factory flash restricted technology using dual ECM like the Boss has now.

If I could offer a special key "Red Key" to the buyer, My standard "Black Key" (like MyKey can restrict the '11 GT)could limit my factory V8 to 100mph top speed, auto skip shift, economy focused timing and ignition, locked Traction control, and anything else CAFE and EPA wants me to do.. I would.. but if you buy the optional "Red Key" and you can control over 200 engine management parameters and increasing the Pandora's Box performance of the drivetrain.

radz28 01-19-2011 10:39 AM

The more I think about it, the more I think that we'll be somewhat "limited" in the amount of models we'll get out of this generation. I think Dragoneye brings many good points. Additionally, I believe that because we've already begun talk of the next generation, only a handful of years away, that there's not going to be enough time to develop too many models, or it takes away from 6th Gen development. I can't even remember if there was even mention by anyone from GM regarding 6th Gen development or a timeline, but I know I've seen it from someone.

It's all speculation at this point. I think the more GM caters to us, and gives us what we want, the more they will sell, and that won't hurt anyone one bit :D


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