vs. Old School Muscle
 

_

Love old school but damn they were some boats!!

Yes but considering most of them are 40 years old...

The problem is the old muscle cars were rated gross power instead of net like newer engines so they produce less power in the car than the advertisements said. I saw were an LS6 Chevelle dyno'd around 255 hp to the wheels through a 3 speed auto.

Lets also not forget the pathetic excuses they had for tires back then too....

But also much easier to tune, with some adjustments and tires some of those cars are very fast for what they are. After so many years a 430hp camaro better be faster then a stock 70!

First, when you are looking at Horsepower, you are looking at trap speeds. Crappy tires and poor 60' times have almost no effect on trap speeds.

This is why the NHRA rules are what they are.

Cars that could hit 100mph were considered at risk. This could happen at 14.0, so hence the 13.99 Helmet Rule.

Cars that could hit 120mph (11.99 then 11.49 later) were considered race cars, hence the rollbar, 5-pt, and fire jacket.

Cars that could hit 140mph (9.99) were considered animals. Full cage, fire system, etc.

I was racing motorcycles back then, and if I could click off a 12.90 with a license plate, I knew few cars with a license plate and street tires were going to catch me.

Imagine my surprise when in 2000, I took a bone stock Camaro SS to Carlsbad, spun the tires in 1st and 2nd, picked up the timeslip and it said 13.85@107.44 mph. :eek:

Really? OMG!!!

Wait. This thing is badged at 320HP!!! WTF???

DOT race tires and minor tweaks had the SS running 12.52@111mph in street trim on pump gas. No engine mods, no headers, factory muffler, through the cats.

(For those really curious 4th gen guys: M6 car, shifted at 6500rpm. Skinnies up front, M&H DOT's in back, remove spare, remove passenger seat, FastToys intake, larger Y-pipe, "Zed-Style" cutout, platinum plugs, bumped limiter to 6600rpm, richened it up, a little more timing in areas, 160°F thermostat. 343rwhp.)

The 1967 Z/28 weighed within 100lb of the 1998 Z/28.
The 290HP DZ engine could just barely hit 101mph.
The 305HP LS1 engine could tag 107mph.

That's huge.

The 67 Z/28 was a bunch faster than many other cars of the same weight with more brochure HP.

There was a lot of debate in the late 90's whether the new cars were as fast as the cars of the Musclecar Era.

15 years later, that discussion is settled.

Considering a 1998 Z28 or Formula can beat a 2010 Mustang GT and a 2009-2014 Challenger RT you might want to think about that statement a little more. The cars were POS's in everything other than the motor but they were straight up fast. Your not even close by a long shot statement is totally false. Despite what you think they were also underrated. The 305-310 HP rating was BS. Probably advertised that way for Vette owners.

there was a lot of love for the old muscle cars for a long time. sure, the best ones struggled to run 13's, but look what happened from the mid 70's to mid 80's--- a lot of cars that struggled to break into the 15's or even 16's. so the old muscle cars were simply rockets compared to that.

13.8? for the '98 Z/28? Only under the worst conditions. Yeah, I ran a 13.85 first pass ever in a car. By the end of that day, I was about 13.3.

In fact, Popular Mechanics put one in the 12's during their review of the LS1 Fbody.

The trick at the time was to put a stock F-body in the 12's. In 2001, the trick became to put the stock LS6 Vettes (Z06's) into the 11's.

The modern HP wars started in 1990, when GM released the 32v Mercury Marine DOHC V8 in their ZR-1 Corvette, but unlike the 60's, it was not affordable to the masses. It would take the release of the LS1 engine in C5 '97, then the LS1 F-body the next year to make 12 second cars that were affordable.

It would take Ford another 5 years to make an affordable hypercar, the 03 Cobra. While they did release the 2000 Cobra-R, only 300 were made, and priced accordingly.

Dodge was the last to get in the fray with the release of their new "Hemi" (not a hemi).

The 1998 4th Gen came with the LS1 motor, not the LT1 in the prior MYs of that generation. Mid to low 13s passes were widely reported, so it is not unreasonable that a good driver with great DA and track prep could dip into the 12s.

AND, the modern muscle era began with the '87 Buick Grand National. Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge were scrambling to catch up.

Despite the short comings of old school muscle, that is exactly what led to the era of Pro Touring.

Probably one of the most BAD ASS aspects of old school muscle.

I'm relatively young but my dad built a pro touring '67 camaro with a chevy big block and custom fabricated EVERYTHING. It's fast, handles beautifully and in my opinion, taht is what old school muscle is all about! Moving with the times.