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-   -   Turned in my 335i today (warning long post) (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100414)

Fraxum 08-13-2010 04:59 PM

Turned in my 335i today (warning long post)
 
I turned in my 335i today. So now my '97 WS6 is my DD for a while. Until I decide what to buy.

After turning in the twin turbo I sat in an '11 Brembo Mustang and a 2SS. My initial impressions.

Interior:

After spending some time in both front seats I do not see why the Mustang is considered heads over heels better. Some things were nicer. But parts of both interiors look cheap to me. Maybe I am spoiled from the BMW.

Both dashes are very retro, the Camaro's more so. Neither dash seemed all that attractive to me, but both are huge improvements over my fourth Gen Firebird. While not winning any beauty contests I would rate the Camaro dash as more interesting.

I did not like the SS radio so much as it will be hard to replace. I have to look at old Camaro threads to see the best way to do it. Aftermarket sound/nav systems are equal or better than factory systems and cheaper. But the Mustang Nav is very nice, built in, and not all that expensive when you consider you get 2 zone climate control, large backup camera screen, and HD radio all included.

I really disliked the low roof in the SS. Evan my wife commented on it. She wondered if Chevrolet was going for a chopped low rider look ala Chrysler 300. If so why? The Mustang was easier to see out of, no contest and interestingly enough my WS6 is also much better.

But the airy equalizer was the sunroof. Open the sunroof cover and the Camaro interior is much brighter. And you can open it for fresh air. The Mustang has a $2K glass roof that is nice but very expensive and never lets in any fresh air unless it is broken. I like a sunroof. And after lowering the power seat I had plenty of headroom.

The Camaro trunk was very long but very low. The Mustang trunk seemed shorter but higher and more useful.

One small thing was that it was easier for me to figure out how to move the front seat forward for rear seat access in the Mustang as the Camaro seat release was harder to find. Maybe I am just a dope.

The font seats in both felt comfortable and seemed to have a useful range of adjustment. But both fell short of the sport seats in my 335i.

You can find cheap plastic in both interiors if you look around. To me the visual quality is a draw. Slight edge to the Mustang for good visibility and the Nav. The Camaro has the sunroof.

My conclusion:

* Mustang interior appearance: 7.25
* Camaro interior appearance: 7.0
* Mustang interior ergonomics: 8..5
* Camaro interior ergonomics: 8.0
* Mustang interior cool factor: 7.0
* Camaro interior cool factor: 8.0

Exterior:

The Brembo Mustang I looked at was tarted up with appearance only add-on scoops and slats. I dislike this kind of useless gingerbread on a serious car. But you can avoid that option. I would. Without that the car has nice lines and very much reminds me of the Mustang fastback I have always wanted but never had. The rear is a little strange. But I could get used to it. Also the Mustang looks like it is more pieced together with all this plastic on the lower edge of the car. It makes the exterior look little cheap. I did like the Brembo wheels. I like the curved thin spokes and dark color. They look great. And they are 19 inchers. I would rather they were 18s but 19 is better than 20 for unsprung weight.

The SS makes much more of a statement than the Mustang. No question there. The Mustang is quietly good looking. The Camaro gets attention. I am not sure the Camaro is as good looking but has nice proportions except for the roof. The roofline on the Camaro looks too low for me. A 1 inch+ higher roofline would make the proportions a little better and increase interior visibility. Overall besides the styling, I like the Camaro exterior a little better. Somehow to me it says quality more than the Mustang. Two details I did not like on the Camaro was the front grill and the fish gills on the front of the back fender.

* Mustang exterior appearance: 8.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 7.75
* Mustang exterior cool factor: 8.0
* Camaro exterior cool factor: 9.5

Given that we buys these cards as fun toys and not just transportation devices I would call this first evaluation a tie.

I am wondering the difference between the Ford Sync and the SS electronics. Any one know the advantages if any?

raqball 08-13-2010 05:05 PM

I would have NEVER guessed this:

Quote:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 8.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 7.75
My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...

ViperTomcat 08-13-2010 05:08 PM

By most accounts Sync is in a league of its own over the SS electronics. Also the Ford navigation is the best OEM in the American market.

I found the Camaro's gauges more interesting, but the Mustangs easier to read in a hurry.

louiecvt 08-13-2010 05:15 PM

One of my first mods was to change out the stereo for a kenwood double din system. It's got Nav, bluetooth, CD/DVD, Ipod, Flash drive and back up camera. I had to get a kit that incorporates the AC controls on it. PM me if you want to know about it.

TaylorRyanSS 08-13-2010 05:26 PM

The low roofline is one of the best parts of the camaro, yeah it may be harder to see out of but it looks awesome and futuristic. It makes the car look like a chop top and I love it :)

StlRomAniaN 08-13-2010 06:12 PM

You're contradicting yourself man. :facepalm: You say you like the Camaro exterior better, but then rate it lower...?

ffrcobra_65 08-13-2010 06:21 PM

Your observations just seem like it is composed/based on reading articles and comments about each car and you never really even felt/drove these cars. Performance factor is really where most people look for + and - when deciding between cars of this type and you mention nothing about it. Seems like you should be shopping for a Lexus or Mercedez if the ergonomics are your main concerns.

Taz_FL 08-13-2010 06:49 PM

good post, I enjoyed reading your description / evaluation of both cars.

Ovenmitt 08-13-2010 08:33 PM

For what its worth the sunroof cars lose almost 2 inches of headroom versus regular roof cars. Def sit in a reg roof.

stikSS 08-13-2010 08:33 PM

All are individual opinions, but his descriptions and ratings don't match up. You really have to drive and use the ammenities of each car to get true opinion and rating. I've stopped and looked at the mustang myself, they both have their goods and bads.

Chevyg1rl 08-13-2010 09:21 PM

Raqball has a point. While I don't think the Mustang is hideous, I would take a Challenger over it every day of the week.

squat 08-13-2010 10:15 PM

Thanks for the post, I always enjoy reading these types of comparisons.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raqball (Post 2216640)
I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...

Your numbers are just as valid as mine since it is all opinion. And I agree about the Dodge. Very nice looking, but way too fat to consider. I would rate its looks as higher than the Mustang or Camaro.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat (Post 2216647)
By most accounts Sync is in a league of its own over the SS electronics. Also the Ford navigation is the best OEM in the American market.

Exactly what I have heard too. But why?

Fraxum 08-13-2010 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN (Post 2216860)
You're contradicting yourself man. :facepalm: You say you like the Camaro exterior better, but then rate it lower...?

Yes, sort of. But the cool factor kicked in for me. Notice the high rating I gave that aspect. The other thing I did not mention is you see so many more Mustangs. The Camaro is more unique. However I still am not sure it is better looking than the Mustang.

One of the things the Mustang does is connect me with cars I cut my teeth on. The Camaro not so much. I do not see much 1969 Camaro there. But I like new stuff so that is not a problem for me. As to the interiors both were going retro and neither pulled it off for me.

Caminsky 08-13-2010 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raqball (Post 2216640)
I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...

In my personal tastes I think the Challenger is just a little better looking than the Camaro (though I flip flop a lot on this), but I feel like the Camaro is a better value. I think the new Mustang looks nice, but just isn't nearly as striking. Still a very nice car though IMO.

OP, why did you ditch the 335?

Fraxum 08-13-2010 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 (Post 2216882)
Your observations just seem like it is composed/based on reading articles and comments about each car and you never really even felt/drove these cars. Performance factor is really where most people look for + and - when deciding between cars of this type and you mention nothing about it. Seems like you should be shopping for a Lexus or Mercedez if the ergonomics are your main concerns.

Good point. It is all about the driving.

I did drive the Camaro 2SS 6M. But I have not yet driven the Brembo Mustang. Here the Chevy dealer was much more attentive to my visit and a non car guy salesman was happy to help me and get me a drive even though I said I was not buying today. The sales guy did not know much about the car. I always know more than any salesman I have met anyway.

So I do not ask them any questions except price. So a non car guy is fine for me. I feel sorry for them. This guy told me they were losing their demos and would have to now buy their own cars. :(

At the Ford dealer I spent about 30 minutes poking around a Brembo Mustang GT in the show room and no one even asked me if I needed help. I was tempted to start using the horn. But instead I left. Advantage Chevrolet.

Once I drive the Mustang I will post. I want to be fair to both. I have owned both in the past and I think it is so much fun to decide between 2 such great cars. In the past neither car was so great but still fun anyway.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stikSS (Post 2217347)
All are individual opinions, but his descriptions and ratings don't match up. You really have to drive and use the ammenities of each car to get true opinion and rating. I've stopped and looked at the mustang myself, they both have their goods and bads.

Yes all opinions. And sometimes things do not always add up. Like when magazines declare a winner based on some arbitrary number. They are missing the point for those that are truly car obsessed. The people on forums like this are almost all passionate about cars, not just the numbers. We are all wasting so much money on cars that don't make sense. If we listen to just the numbers we all should buy Corollas.

All cars have good and bad points. But to me it is fun to talk about them. And I already am picking up some useful information to help me make my own decision.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevyg1rl (Post 2217512)
Raqball has a point. While I don't think the Mustang is hideous, I would take a Challenger over it every day of the week.

To me the Challenger is the best looking "Pony" car. But it is also a Belgian Draft Horse. If only it weighed 500 pounds less.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caminsky (Post 2217915)
In my personal tastes I think the Challenger is just a little better looking than the Camaro (though I flip flop a lot on this), but I feel like the Camaro is a better value. I think the new Mustang looks nice, but just isn't nearly as striking. Still a very nice car though IMO.

OP, why did you ditch the 335?

My lease was up. I could have bought my car for a very reasonable price.

I can't figure out myself why I am not getting another 335. It runs mid 12s with a mild tune and gets over 30 mpg. It handles like a dream on rails and has a ton of cool accessories that you cannot get on a Chevy or a Ford. It also had the best stereo of any car I have ever owned. And a great many people who see you driving any BMW think you are rich (if you like that sort of thing). And for those in the market more girls of all ages looked me over more than in any other car I have ever owned.

But I never had that much fun driving it. It was almost like it was too perfect if that is possible. I drove a 2SS today and if that was available three years ago no way would I have chosen the 335i.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ovenmitt (Post 2217346)
For what its worth the sunroof cars lose almost 2 inches of headroom versus regular roof cars. Def sit in a reg roof.

Yes I agree. But I really like the roof. And with the seat lowered there is plenty of headroom for me. That is not be the case for everyone.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squat (Post 2217734)
Thanks for the post, I always enjoy reading these types of comparisons.

Interesting that you have a G8. The third car on my list is a G8 GXP 6M with the roof. Very hard to find within 1,000 miles of my house. I like 4 doors and wish you could buy a 4 door Camaro.

Fraxum 08-13-2010 11:35 PM

One other thing. What do you think of the HUD? I did not like ugly square box I see reflected in the windshield. Is only the MPH there?

booenson 08-13-2010 11:43 PM

To comment on the 300, I used to own one and would say the 300 had better visibility, but this is also my first coupe. My 1SS has no sunroof, I decided it wasn't worth it, and I would also rather have the extra roof height. Even with no sunroof, the 300 had a lot more clearance from the top of my head to the roof.

philipdistefano 08-14-2010 12:50 AM

I guess I'm the only one here that would take the Mustang over the Challenger...I really don't like the look of the Challenger at all (and I can't think of a single Chrysler car I do like the look of...). I'd even go foreign and take a 370z before a Challenger.

It seems like the Camaro crowd all likes the Challenger and hates the Mustang, and I can't figure out why. I love the Mustang, and I'd probably have one if I didn't have a Camaro.


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