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-   -   Speculation of LS7 being in the 2009 SS (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018)

JWz28 06-05-2007 12:14 PM

Speculation of LS7 being in the 2009 SS
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121028

This 1999 Chevrolet Z28 Camaro is no ordinary used car. It's a freaking street monster; a snarling, mean mother of a street racer that will chew you up and spit you out if you have the temerity to challenge it at a stoplight.

It's powered by a GM Performance Parts (GMPP) LS7 crate motor packing 505 (or more) horsepower, the same engine you'll find under the hood of a Z06 Corvette. In fact, GM Performance Parts built this car because it wants the world to know that the all-aluminum small-block V8 is for sale at any GM dealer's parts counter (or even online).

The other reason the motorheads at GMPP built this beast is because the coming '09 Camaro will probably have an SS edition available, which will be powered by this same engine right off the showroom floor.

Do it! Do it! Do it!

JWz28.

The_Stache 06-05-2007 12:48 PM

Personaly I would be very surprised if the LS7 made its way into the camaro.. Possibly in a 100-1000 production #s, high priced limited edition but you wont be able to pick one up at a dealer unless you plan on paying vette z06 prices after markups..

TAG UR IT 06-05-2007 01:06 PM

Yeah...I wouldn't doubt that someone or some aftermarket company (maybe GMMG builds and delivers to Tom Henry, etc.) builds this and it hits showroom floors. I mean c'mon...someone out there knows if they build it, they will come. And...they'll sell all of them...at a much higher price. I firmly believe it will happen.

Rock36 06-05-2007 01:40 PM

If they do drop in an LS7, that will be the one I want, and the one I insist on getting.

I will cry like I am 8 years old if I can't get it too. I am very bitter about the dealer markup stuff. Yeah yeah, I understand capitalism, and I understand why dealer markups happen, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

kuehjo 06-05-2007 01:56 PM

Hmmm - can you buy an LS7 off the shelf? Wonder what it would take to do a swap - even in smog-concsious California??

Hmmm...

MerF 06-05-2007 03:44 PM

Did you guys read that last paragraph? Exciting quote from a guy at GMMP!

Quote:

"Holy crap!" we exclaimed. "What the freak was that? This should be a production car."

"Stick around for the '09 Camaro launch," was Meyer's response, both of us grinning and trying to catch our breath.

Bait8 06-05-2007 04:16 PM

I still don't believe it will get the LS7 in any version.

3whiterag 06-05-2007 05:06 PM

Once again I am standing in the shadows, listening...... waiting.....wondering......What will happen next? All this excitement and for free too!

kuehjo 06-05-2007 05:11 PM

Hmmm! Well there you go. An LS7 short block can be had for $6800 or so. So a swap would be EMINENTLY doable (if you can get it past the smog police). Are the heads different too? How much more is that gonna add? Definitely an option, though...

3whiterag 06-05-2007 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWz28 (Post 12771)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121028

This 1999 Chevrolet Z28 Camaro is no ordinary used car. It's a freaking street monster; a snarling, mean mother of a street racer that will chew you up and spit you out if you have the temerity to challenge it at a stoplight.

It's powered by a GM Performance Parts (GMPP) LS7 crate motor packing 505 (or more) horsepower, the same engine you'll find under the hood of a Z06 Corvette. In fact, GM Performance Parts built this car because it wants the world to know that the all-aluminum small-block V8 is for sale at any GM dealer's parts counter (or even online).

The other reason the motorheads at GMPP built this beast is because the coming '09 Camaro will probably have an SS edition available, which will be powered by this same engine right off the showroom floor.

Do it! Do it! Do it!

JWz28.

LS7 is old news, maybe an LSA?

ChevyNut 06-05-2007 06:02 PM

I was on GMPP and found out that they also put one in an 06 GTO.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Racing/ls7_gto.jsp

Mr. Wyndham 06-05-2007 06:06 PM

I can see it, but it will be the equivalant of a Shelby, an expensive, suped-up Muscle Car.

JWz28 06-06-2007 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3whiterag (Post 12797)
LS7 is old news, maybe an LSA?

OK 3....Inquiring minds want to know. What are you wrenching on right now and what is in the works? You can whisper, I won't tell anyone. You're killing me.

If you were a betting man, what engine do you think the top performing Camaro will get? If not the LS7 then how about the rumored 600HP 2009 CTS-V S/C power plant.

Either way I could be happy.

JWz28.

Rock36 06-06-2007 12:30 PM

Man 3whiterag has got the info, but he is just a big tease.

LSxcellent 06-06-2007 01:14 PM

I still don't buy it...

Even though Motortrend.com is saying the new CTS-V is going to have a supercharged LS7, I just don't buy it. It doesn't make much sense.

The LS7 is bored out as far as possible to get as many cubes into it as possible, and it is designed as a naturally aspirated engine. The CTS-V is going to be supercharged, which changes EVERYTHING about the engine design... I just don't think the LS7 is the right way to go.

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the Corvette Z07, the CTS-V, and the Camaro Z28 will all use a supercharged version of the 6.2L LS3 block reinforced for supercharged-duty. This makes a LOT more sense to me.... why?

-The cylinder walls need to be thicker for forced intake engines due to much higher cylinder pressures, the LS7 is bored out too far to support these loads (IMHO).

-The LS7 is already at the limit of its design, it is derived from the C6R racing program which forced them to use a NA engine (due to racing rules). The LS3 is not constrained by this so it would be easier to design in the right supports.

-The supercharger needs to be integrated into the engine valley, the LS7 is already a pretty big engine and I don't know if there is enough room.

-The LS7 is an EXPENSIVE engine due to its use of Titanium connecting rods, forged pistons, etc... I think its TOO expensive for general use in all of these other platforms (Cadillac & Camaro).

That all being said, I would be PSYCHED if they figured out a way to do it... I think the LS7 is one of the best engines on the planet and I would ABSOLUTELY buy one if it were offered in the Camaro!

Either way, GM powertrain engineers are just freaking nuts... 600hp in a Caddy?! SURE! 700hp Corvette?! WHY NOT! I LOVE IT!

All I want is a 600hp Camaro and all will be right with the world!

~LSx

JWz28 06-06-2007 01:32 PM

LSx:

I could work with a 6.2 S/C w/ 600 hp. :) Especially with a 5 yr. 100,000 mile warranty.

As far as cost goes for the engine, suspension and other goodies...it's all a matter of cost accounting. These parts have already been developed or are being develped for use in other cars and the more units of production that they can use them on, the quicker the General recoups the cost of development, drives down the cost of production and more competitively prices the car. I think it's brilliant that they are potentially using techonolgies from the Vette, GTO / Holden and Caddie in the new Camaro...use the best balance of parts from each and spread the cost of production. The end result is a new world beast of a Camaro at a competitive price.

JWz28.

TFord 06-06-2007 02:22 PM

the possibility of a LS7 in a SS Camaro is'nt that far off. SS camaro usually have had base model vette engines in them. In 09, 2010 corvette is going to the C7 series and GM says that base model vettes will have LS7's in them. so why wouldent camaro ss have LS7's in them. besides the price of them of course. a brand new LS7 costs about 15-17K, and I dont have a clue how much the tranny costs. But I did just see a commercial for a cadillac cts-v thats 600hp with a LS7 engine. so the possibility is there

JWz28 06-07-2007 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFord (Post 12853)
the possibility of a LS7 in a SS Camaro is'nt that far off. SS camaro usually have had base model vette engines in them. In 09, 2010 corvette is going to the C7 series and GM says that base model vettes will have LS7's in them. so why wouldent camaro ss have LS7's in them. besides the price of them of course. a brand new LS7 costs about 15-17K, and I dont have a clue how much the tranny costs. But I did just see a commercial for a cadillac cts-v thats 600hp with a LS7 engine. so the possibility is there

You can buy a brand new LS7 crate motor from several sources right now for $12-13K. As more are produced the price will come down. As far as the tranny, the Vette's and CTS-V's use a T56. You can buy a race ready T56 for $2200.

JWz28.

LSxcellent 06-07-2007 10:20 AM

From http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/LS7.shtml


"The LS7's specifications are significant for a production engine:

505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm
475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm
7000-rpm redline
Unique engine block with larger 104.8-mm (4.125-inch) bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm (4-inch) stroke
Titanium connecting rods
Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
Dry-sump oiling system
11.0:1 compression ratio
Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift

Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique "quad flow" collector flanges.
All LS7 engines are assembled by hand at GM's new Performance Build Center in Wixom , Mich. The exacting standards to which they are built include deck-plate boring and honing of the cylinders and even crank line-boring of the block with the deck plates and side bolts installed - procedures normally associated with the building of racing engines and almost unheard of in a production-vehicle engine."

There are lots of details like this one that makes me skeptical of the LS7 as a large-volume production engine... I just don't see them being able to maintain this level of quality on a much larger scale... There are LOTS of details like this in this engine that make it hard to produce on a large scale (IMHO).

But I hope I'm wrong...

~LSx

JWz28 06-07-2007 10:37 AM

Keep the faith. 3whiterag keep on wrenching!!!!!! We need more power Scotty!!!!!!!

JWz28.

Eisenhower 06-07-2007 11:28 AM

Should the need arise, the corvette Z06's LS7 V-8 stands ready to outmuscle Dodge's Hemi by 80 horsepower. -Bob Lutz :clap:

JWz28 06-07-2007 11:45 AM

Ike:
Where did you find this and was it attributed to the up-coming new pony HP war???

JWz28.

LSxcellent 06-07-2007 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower (Post 12924)
Should the need arise, the corvette Z06's LS7 V-8 stands ready to outmuscle Dodge's Hemi by 80 horsepower. -Bob Lutz :clap:

Um, the need HAS arisen! Just ask anyone here! :D :thumbsup:

I think Chevy DOES need to put a 500+hp engine in the new Camaro just to keep pace with Ford and Dodge...

The new Mustang GT (2009) will probably output 350-375hp

The new Challenger will put out 435-450hp

The new Camaro HAS to put out something competative, and the LS7 is a ready-made, proven solution!

That being said, I WOULD shell out some serious $$$ for a supercharged LS7 (even if it meant eating RAMEN noodles for a year or so)... its just going to be SO worth it!

~LSx

TFord 06-07-2007 12:28 PM

3 Attachment(s)
yeah shelbys got the new GT 500KR (king of the road) coming out in 2008 its packing 540 hp. dodge has the new viper pushing 600 hp. now there are rumors of a vette in 2009 haveing 650-700 hp(with a blown LS7,LS2, or LS3)
and I for get who makes it but theres a supercharger that just came out a couple of months ago for the LS7 its a bolt-on and it takes it from 505 to 645hp. so everybody is trying to be king of the hill right now

Eisenhower 06-07-2007 12:32 PM

It's in an older issue of MT. May '06 pg. 49
He, [Bob Lutz] responded to questions about the Camaro concept's 25-horsepower deficit relative to Dodge's Challenger. I wouldn't have posted that if it was just somebody's guess, but they have him stating that, "on the record".

Also, Mr. Lutz is talking to reporters about how many Camaro's GM needs to sell to compete with that of Ford's Mustang... He say's that they need to "offer an entry level V-6 priced just over $20,000, and an affordable V-8 model priced under $30,000".

The cost of an SS model??? Anyone's guess but if GM's going to stick to Mr. Lutz' claims, then I can't see them charging an extra $10,000 for a $6800 engine.


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