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-   -   Canadian Built Camaro, Foreign Cars and US Jobs (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103419)

alfie43 08-31-2010 10:53 AM

Canadian Built Camaro, Foreign Cars and US Jobs
 
I recently posted in a couple of threads that turned into discussions about our domestic cars (GM, Ford, Chrysler) vs foreign cars.

In one thread, the OP posted that he bought a Hyundai Genesis. He also stated that was struggling in the job market. I chided him about the irony of buying a car that is 100% Korean assembled with a 95% foreign made content. I said perhaps his employment picture, and for many other Americans, would be much improved if people like him bought less foreign cars. Of course, I got toasted for that. I was on vacation and couldn't access a computer to fully complete my position.

Before some of you jump in to remind me that the Camaro is made in Canada, read this entire post. Also, I'm not talking about patriotism. I'm not talking about restricting our free market choices. I am not anti-Asian; my father immigrated to this country from the Far-East. The quality gap is history, so that it is no longer part of the discussion. Again, my point is: It's about US JOBS.

As for our Canadian built Camaros; There is more to this story than where a car is assembled. It's about the US jobs that are created and maintained to produced a car regardless of where the final assembly takes place. It's about employment in the parts and components industry; the research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly of vehicle content.

GM, Ford and Chrysler employ far more Americans per car than the foreign companies, including the foreign implants that are assembled here. The numbers aren't even close. Here are some figures from the Levelfield Institute. They express their findings as number of jobs created per every 2500 cars produced.

"The JPC Rating (jobs per car) is calculated by dividing the total number of cars sold by an automaker in the U.S. by the company's U.S. workforce. It measures an automaker's contribution to job creation in all areas—research, design, engineering and management—not just assembly jobs. From a simple mathematical perspective, the rating tells you how many U.S. workers a company employs for every 2,500 cars they sell.

For example, Ford employs 89 Americans for every 2,500 cars sold, followed by GM and Chrysler at 78 and 92 respectively. Honda ranks first among the major foreign automakers, but only with a score of 54 followed by Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai/Kia at 51, 38, and 26 respectively.

Why do we count jobs per 2,500 cards sold, rather than for each car sold? Doing so produces whole numbers, which are easier to compare. For example, each Hyundai car supports .01 jobs, while every 2500 cars support 26.

Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM, or Chrysler supports almost three times as many jobs as buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports 3.5 times more jobs than buying a Hyundai.
"

Alfie

vm1971 08-31-2010 11:00 AM

thank you, i loved that post.
i tried to explain somethign similar to a friend but that summed it up!
thanks!
:)

raqball 08-31-2010 11:04 AM

I do have a slight issue with the Camaro being built in Canada... Nothing against our friends to the North but....

GM took our hard earned and paid tax money and is using it to create Canadian jobs that are desperately needed in the US and has infused millions upon million of dollars into the Canadian economy that could have been kept here...

[flame suit on]

ViperTomcat 08-31-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raqball (Post 2281404)
I do have a slight issue with the Camaro being built in Canada... Nothing against our friends to the North but....

GM took our hard earned and paid tax money and is using it to create Canadian jobs that are desperately needed in the US and has infused millions upon million of dollars into the Canadian economy that could have been kept here...

[flame suit on]

GM also got alot of money from Canada.

I would agree if GM ONLY got money from the US..but they, like Chrysler, were bailed out and helped by Canada too.

raqball 08-31-2010 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat (Post 2281411)
GM also got alot of money from Canada.

I would agree if GM ONLY got money from the US..but they, like Chrysler, were bailed out and helped by Canada too.

Learn something new everyday... I did not know that, thanks....

CanadianCamaro 08-31-2010 11:09 AM

...Oh man here we go.... clueless.



To the OP'r - excellent post. Well said, well researched and on point. :clap:

raqball 08-31-2010 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianCamaro (Post 2281419)
...Oh man here we go.... clueless.

Off topic, but why are half the people on this forum so rude and stuck on themselves???

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

brandotron 08-31-2010 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raqball (Post 2281424)
Off topic, but why are half the people on this forum so rude and stuck on themselves???

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Welcome to the internet :laugh:

nards444 08-31-2010 11:16 AM

rather have money go to canada then japan or china. Money in canada ends up back in the states anyways

raqball 08-31-2010 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandotron (Post 2281435)
Welcome to the internet :laugh:

Oh ya, I know... I guess some people know everything there is to know about everything that can be known in the world (say that 3 times fast)... Met a few of them types in person over the years and plenty of em on the internet....

LOL

To the OP... Nice post....

Rip 08-31-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nards444 (Post 2281443)
rather have money go to canada then japan or china. Money in canada ends up back in the states anyways

Every dollar spent ends back up in the US, no matter which country it goes to. It is all eventually re-invested in the US, as it ultimately has no value anywhere else otherwise.

cab2g 08-31-2010 11:28 AM

Very nice comparison. Is there a way to break the numbers down by salary paid out for every 2500 cars? I bet the numbers are even more telling when you include all the US management and engineering. Factory workers aren't paid that much compared to executives, and with a lot of the foreign companies there aren't doing much more in the US than manufacturing and marketing/sales.

alfie43 08-31-2010 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raqball (Post 2281404)
I do have a slight issue with the Camaro being built in Canada... Nothing against our friends to the North but....

GM took our hard earned and paid tax money and is using it to create Canadian jobs that are desperately needed in the US and has infused millions upon million of dollars into the Canadian economy that could have been kept here...

[flame suit on]

I think you missed my point:
"There is more to this story than where a car is assembled. It's about the US jobs that are created and maintained to produced a car regardless of where the final assembly takes place. It's about (US made) parts and components; the research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly of vehicle content (parts and components)".

I am talking Tier One and Tier Two auto suppliers. They employ hundreds of thousands in the US in good paying jobs.
Alfie

lets_go_bills 08-31-2010 11:32 AM

GM is very much a global company now. While it's an American company at heart, it truly is a global company. And that's really neat, IMO.

The Camaro was truly a global effort:

It was conceived and designed in the USA.
It was engineered and tweaked in Australia.
It was test driven and track tested in Europe.
It was assembled and built in Canada.

Pretty unique global effort and I think it's awesome. Big thumbs up to all involved in the creation of this awesome machine. :thumbsup:

nards444 08-31-2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rip (Post 2281474)
Every dollar spent ends back up in the US, no matter which country it goes to. It is all eventually re-invested in the US, as it ultimately has no value anywhere else otherwise.


I doubt it and I bet the economic benefit for every car sold that was produced in canada is probably larger than a car built in Japan and probably even a mazda thats built in the US. Japan only builds a a few plants in the US to get around taxes and show the american people look these are made in the states.. I got your point on a global economy, but a nissan in japan has no benefit to us. My friends dad trucks up to oshawa every week to deliver goods, I dont see any truck drivers going to japan.

wylde1 08-31-2010 11:36 AM

I'm happy it's built in Canada! thank you for buying the Camaro and supporting Canadian jobs as well!

very good post OP. Would be interesting to see what other companies of the world do to support their home economy. i.e. Italians per Ferarri, or Germans per Mercedes/Porsche/VW

raqball 08-31-2010 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfie43 (Post 2281483)
I think you missed my point:
"There is more to this story than where a car is assembled. It's about the US jobs that are created and maintained to produced a car regardless of where the final assembly takes place. It's about (US made) parts and components; the research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly of vehicle content (parts and components)".

I am talking Tier One and Tier Two auto suppliers. They employ hundreds of thousands in the US in good paying jobs.
Alfie

No sir, I got your point... I was just adding a comment about the *additional* jobs created in Canada... I was obviously ignorant to the fact that Canada also handed bundles of money over to GM....

ViperTomcat was kind enough to school me on this...

Jay_LHD3 08-31-2010 11:39 AM

The only thing I don't understand is why the guy bought a $33,000(and up) Hyundai Genisis if he was having hard times. :iono:

Why not an Impala or Malibu? They cost less too!



:D

born-to-fish- 08-31-2010 11:40 AM

"Canada, the largest American State"
As quoted by Lance Burton, when I was introduced to him in Vegas this July

wylde1 08-31-2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rip (Post 2281474)
Every dollar spent ends back up in the US, no matter which country it goes to. It is all eventually re-invested in the US, as it ultimately has no value anywhere else otherwise.

hmmm.. I'm not sure this is an entirely accurate statement, but I think the underlying point is good. Money does no good in a big stagnent pile. You have to spend/invest it elsewhere to keep the economy flowing working. It's the oil in the engine per say.

Hopeful 08-31-2010 11:44 AM

When GM ceased production of the 4th Gen they promised the Canadian workers that they would not build a future Camaro in the US. I believe this has some bearing on why Oshawa was chosen and not somewhere in the US. I like my Canadian Camaro!

Andy

nards444 08-31-2010 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfaber99 (Post 2281530)
The only thing I don't understand is why the guy bought a $33,000(and up) Hyundai Genisis if he was having hard times. :iono:

Why not an Impala or Malibu? They cost less too!



:D



The japanese automakers are clever and deserve multiple accolades. They fed off the whole we make better MPG cars and they are way cheaper for years. They took advantage of piss poor vehicles made here from proabably late 70's to early ninetys, when at that point American cars started coming back. But now foreign cars are actually costing more than american cars and arent any better quality. But Japan sucked in a lot of owner loyal over those two decades they are still profiting off of that. I would say really since 2002-2004 American cars have been superior and really most american made cars either get the same MPG or even better.


Another observation is this. Look at the two countries that we probably do the most business with Japan and China. These are the countries that we have built up to be our spitting image, allowing un-fair trade to go on for years, borrowing extensively from, and really not getting anything in return. So we become more poor and people no longer have jobs because we have no manufacturing base, china and japan are on our heels to dominate the global market. Sad thing is we have let a lot of this happen to ourselves. It's sad really when you think about it besides food and even that is tricky, there is nothing you buy thats made in the states anymore NOTHING.

Steve 08-31-2010 11:46 AM

Just an (un-researched) opinion - I am thinking it is more of a financial decision, where it may be lower cost per unit to build them in Oshawa than anywhere else.

d69chris 08-31-2010 11:48 AM

Bloated pensions & benefits are killing the US auto makers, US government, & local/state govts.

Too larger a percentage of $$'s of each car sold goes to people no longer working for GM/Ford/Chrysler than compared to imports.

nards444 08-31-2010 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d69chris (Post 2281565)
Bloated pensions & benefits are killing the US auto makers, US government, & local/state govts.

Too larger a percentage of $$'s of each car sold goes to people no longer working for GM/Ford/Chrysler than compared to imports.


True and Japan has a national health care service and is a loose socialism. When they retire the GOVT takes care of them. Our GOVT doesnt do that here so somebody has to


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