pfadt and pedders coilovers
can someone explain the difference between the two other than the price
We can not speak to any negatives of a competitors product, but we can talk about the benefits of our own, and how they were engineered.
Below, I have included a feature sheet on our front and rear GM licensed coilovers. Click on that to get a larger version. These are the exact coilovers that GM came to us to install on the Chevrolet Camaro SSx. The fact that we are a engineering company, dedicated to suspension development was an important aspect when they chose to utilize and license all of our Pfadt products installed on the SSx. You can read more about the Chevrolet SSx here : http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ssx
Part of our philosophy, is development through testing and racing. We are engineers, not salesman. We take what we learn from racing and distribute that knowledge into our products that are made for a comfortable, but performance based street ride. We have engineering data and competition to back it up. We commit to real racing, against other Camaros, and consistently come out on top. Just ask Erik at Torq how much success he has had using our coilovers and competing against 5th gens. At the Camaro5 Fest autocross last year, only Pfadt suspension took victories. Now, these are also the only coilovers homologated into SCCA World Challenge Competition.
Give me a shout if you have any specific questions regarding our coilovers and their development. There is a lot to talk about, and some people will give you meaningless points to confuse you. But our coilovers that were developed specifically for the 5th Generation Camaro, not a similar platform, are a perfect combination of street durability, comfort and performance when you need it.
Here is also a short video outlining the performance gains you can expect to see with Pfadt coilovers.
Since nobody has posted it up yet. Pedders is also a GM Performance selected product. Licensed by GM Performance. Pulled the info below direct from the Pedders site for your reading entertainment.
Pedders New Advanced SuperCar Coil Overs
Pedders USA, LLC is proud to release the most advanced 5th Generation Camaro suspension -- Pedders SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers. These are 52mm high pressure monotubes with reservoirs the size of beer cans. They feature 30 positive click adjustments on the bound and 30 positive click adjustment on the rebound making setup as easy as Click, Tune, Game On!!!
These are not your Grandmother's itty bitty flick your Bic lighter size canisters. These are CANISTERS!
Pedders 46mm fixed bound and rebound adjustable Xa coilovers set the pace for all the 5th Gen Camaros at the Optima Challenge last year. Running a full Justice Package with the Xa coilovers Pedders Camaro clocked Z06 speed laps at Gingerman. The new 52mm monotubes are 27% larger in surface diameter. This is important on the track and on the street because the greater the volume of oil in the damper, the smoother the action will be with increased control. Add to the larger monotube diameter HUGE remote reservoirs and the Supercar coilovers have over 50% more oil. More oil not only smoothes the damping action, it dissipates heat better leading to greater consistency under the most demanding conditions.
Why would you need to have these gorgeous mechanical works of art on your 5th Gen Camaro? Great question!
1. Many 5th Gen Camaro owners lust after the sexy look of the prototypes that electrified the Camaro community and car enthusiast around the world, but they want to have the OE ride quality. Pedders Xa coilovers adjust ride height by screwing the monotube in and out of the lower mount. This preserves jounce travel and ride quality. The SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers use the same technology with the largest oil capacity available. Combine the benefits of the increased oil capacity with independent bound and rebound adjustment and your sex on wheels lowered Camaro will deliver ride quality that some feel is better than OE. That is from fellow Camaro owners that have been out in my Camaro on 305/30/19 Bridgestones mounted on Forgeline 19x10.5 wheels all around and dropped to the ground! It seems that you can have it all with Pedders!
2. Drag shocks / struts 90/10s help lower ETs, but should never be driven on the street. No one wants to be in an off camber turn, with a bump in the road driving on 90/10s :confused0068:
Pedders SportsRyder Supercar coilovers are the solution. At the strip set the front struts to full SOFT on the rebound and full HARD on the bound. The rear struts are set to full SOFT on the bound and full HARD on the rebound. These settings allow the front to pop up and the rear to squat for excellent weight transfer. Are they as good as dedicated drag shocks -- no -- BUT they are road course, autocross, drag strip and daily driver capable. You can drive to the strip with amazing control; tear up the strip with your drag settings and then drive home SAFELY with your street settings on coilovers that are road course capable with daily driver comfort. You can have it all.
3. You want to run road courses and autocross until your tires melt. You have years of experience and want to be able to adjust your setup exactly the way you want it. SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers are exactly what you want. HUGE reservoirs for heat dissipation, 30 positive clicks for bound adjustment with 30 positive clicks for rebounds adjustment, height adjustment that will not alter spring preload and a WARRANTY that covers your coilovers for racing as long as your Camaro is street legal. How could it get any better?
Paul Tracy in the Pedders Camaro[/URL]
Chris Brannon Runs Gingerman[/URL]
Chris Brannon Trackside[/URL]
All of these videos were shot with our 46mm Xa coilovers. The 52mm SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers are smoother and allow more flexibility in trackside setup. The ridiculous numbers the Pedders Camaro put up on track with Xas, what can I say, the car is better with the 52mm SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers. Gingerman is open so Pedders will be post new videos from our track sessions on the SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers. I can tell you with the Supercar Coilovers installed on my Camaro since December not a mile has gone by that I did not have a smile on my face.
4. Your Camaro has nothing but the best installed. Your engine mods are best-of-class. Your driveline has been upgraded to 1,000 RWHP capable. You invested in the strongest lightest wheels available. Now you are ready for the best-of-class in suspension. 52mm HUGE Remote Reservoir, Independent Bound and Rebound Adjustable, Height Adjustment that does Not Alter Jounce Travel SportsRyder Supercar Coilovers are your solution of choice.
The Justice Package will include all the suspension components that erased 7 seconds off the lap time of a stock 2 SS at Gingerman Raceway. This track ready package contains the best of the best of what Pedders has to offer, including our COMPETITION sway bar package, SOLUTION C, which creates velocity induced oversteer. In the hands of a skilled SCCA or NASA certified driver, the Justice Package is perfect for the track. The initial Justice Package came with our off the charts great Pedders eXtreme 46mm Xa Coilovers. The Justice Camaro now has our 52mm Remote Reservoir, high pressure nitrogen, independent bound and rebound adjustable Coilovers. Supercar coilovers offer eXtreme flexibility to those knowledgeable in setup. The Track eXtreme combines all the components of the Street II and adds A COMPETITION ONLY Rear Sway bar, all bushes with all of our most HD options, 4 adjustable Endlinks and our new Pedders SportsRyder Supercar Remote Reservoir Coilovers. With the virtual pivot point design and the advanced independent rear suspension your tracked Camaro does not need to be over sprung and over damped. In complete OE trim it will outperform many respected marquees. With a Track II eXtreme System your ZETA II Camaro is ""this close"" to race ready and yet still street comfortable. This is where GM's multibillion dollar investment in the ZETA architecture reaches levels of performance that are as aggressive as the Camaro styling. You really can have it all. Drive to the track in performance comfort, Click to max Performance, and Play to the Max! CLICK, TUNE, PLAY! The look! The handling!! The comfort!!! A Pedderised Camaro offers it all! Your Pedderised ZETA II Camaro will dominate the market. Btw, Pedders Coilovers and Bars are SCCA T2 Legal.
164086[/URL] Camaro Xa Remote Canister
CAMAROSOLUTIONC 27mm F & 32mm R bars & 4 links
EP1167HD Zeta HD Differential Mounts
EP1201HD Camaro HD Rear Sub Frame Repl
EP2112 Zeta Steering Rack/Pinion Mnt
EP6577 Camaro Front Radius Rod Bush
EP7264 Zeta Rear Lower Control Arm In
EP7322 Camaro Rear Upper Control Arm
EP7323 Zeta Rear Trailing ArmToe Link
PDUSACAM2800 Camaro Complete Brake Hose Kit
PDUSACAMFULL Camaro Full Alignment Kit
Every GM owned SEMA Camaro was shown with Pedders coilovers. The Jay Leno Camaro rides on Pedders Coilovers. The GM Indianapolis 500 Camaro Pace Cars ride on Pedders Coilovers, sway bars with sub-frame and radius bush inserts. Doesn't your Camaro deserve Pedders too?
Hey Bmbbl be,
As a distributor for multiple different suspension lines as well as a full service installation and suspension tuning facility the Pfadt Racing coil over system has had the greatest customer feedback of ANY Gen 5 Camaro kit that we sell. Plus after having a chance to run all the different systems on our local track back to back, this is the kit that we chose for our OWN 2010 Camaro that already HAD a different brand of coil over on the car. There REALLY WAS that much of a difference.
Another real world benefit was the adjustability without removing the tires or jacking up the car. So for weekends when you want to carve a few canyons, or if you daily drive your 5th Gen in freeway traffic, adjusting the soft/firm settings is a simple few minute process with literally no tools at all. :thumbup:
Shoot us a PM and let us know how we can help!
PS, if you want a ride in a Super Coilover Pedderized GTO, let me know neighbor. I live by Chapel Hill Mall and we can arrange something. But you will have to wait until the snow is gone!!
As the industry leader in Camaro suspension performance, a lot of people compare themselves to Pfadt, and rightfully so. When you talk to Pfadt, you talk to automotive engineers, not salesmen on the internet. Information from Pfadt comes straight from the horse’s mouth; the posts that are made from Pfadt are from the actual educated automotive engineers that design the parts. It is important to consider this fact when analyzing information from company salesmen. When manufacturers make an unsolicited attempt to compare themselves to us, we are thrilled because it demonstrates that Pfadt stands as the benchmark. With that said, we have received many inquiries from forum members, confused as to why other manufacturers use this as their sole marketing approach, as opposed to results on a track. So if you were ever confused about engineering facts on a Pfadt coilover suspension, read below to get the info straight from Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE International) members, not salesmen. We race and win on what we engineer for your Camaro.
1. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers are properly engineered to provide maximum adjustment to ride height. Pfadt coilovers adjust the ride height by raising and lowering the spring perch for a reason: they were engineered specifically for the Camaro suspension travel requirements, not adapted from a "similar" platform. Some coilovers may rely on adaptations of existing parts and rely on screwing the body into the lower mount – like a one-size-fits-all solution. Pfadt coil overs are properly engineered specifically for the Camaro and as a result have full and proper suspension travel engineered into them. In the case of the Camaro, relying on a threaded body to adjust ride height is a symptom of inadequate engineering resulting in added weight, complexity, and the potential for noise. As a result of our engineering, Pfadt dampers are specific to the Camaro platform (not off the shelf) and the ride quality is unparalleled.
2. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers address the entire mounting system and do not rely on OEM mounts. OEM mounts were designed for a strut, not a coilover. Using the OEM mounts with a coilover, while inexpensive, and an easy solution, is not ideal for any type of performance application. At Pfadt, we aren't in business to give you "good enough." Pfadt replaces the rear mount on the coilover to solve an inherent issue in the non-linear path of the rear shock and spring - in other words, the factory mounts put an undesirable bending moment in the shaft. Use of the rear OEM mount for the spring and shock orientation does not address the inherent binding problem. In a performance application, the cornering loads are increased and only exponentially increases the problem. So what are you gaining? What is the advantage of copying the same design, or adapting it from a "similar" platform? Pfadt has done the engineering necessary to make sure the upper mount in the front and rear can EXCEED the design load requirements of our suspension. Ask anyone who refutes this fact to prove it with any analysis data. Camaro coilovers that use the OEM mounting points in the rear are defaulting to an inferior solution requiring minimal engineering.
3. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers are inverted to reduce unsprung mass and offer the extreme advantage of an enclosed shaft assembly on the front which is completely protected from dirt and debris. Let us be clear: the front shafts on Pfadt Camaro coil overs are completely protected from the elements and will see not one spec of dirt, debris, salt or water. Our system is far superior to any other option and absolutely bullet proof for long term use on the street or the track. The most important question regarding damper longevity is the quality and reliability of the materials and manufacturing. Pfadt Race Engineering uses manufacturing in the United States and Germany for the ultimate in superior construction. Pfadt coilovers offer superior engineering and require no seal maintenance, no gas pressure maintenance, no lubrication maintenance all while offering the performance advantages of an inverted design. If someone is telling you otherwise, it is simply because they can not find anything wrong with the superior design of an inverted shock.
4. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have options for adjusting Camber and Caster. Pfadt has the only true solution for adjusting caster and camber quickly, safely, and efficiently with our optional upper mounting plates. Products that use a clevis in an attempt to achieve increased negative camber put more stress on the strut geometry, creating the high potential for material fatigue. While extending the clevis is inexpensive and rudimentary it is not an engineered system solution.
5. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers allow you to change spring rates. As we are an engineering company, as well as a racing company, we know a properly designed coilover allows you to use flat-ground, interchangeable springs that are readily available from any spring manufacturer. If you buy something else, you are stuck with what they ship you, and you are gaining nothing over the factory design. If you are paying for a suspension upgrade, shouldn’t it have at the bare minimum a spring upgrade?
6. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have corrosion resistance coatings that last a lifetime. Using Asian suppliers with cheap manufacturing techniques allow for them to cut corners in both material choice, and material coating. Pfadt should know, we have experienced poor coatings from suppliers and long ago engineered a better solution. With out a proper coating, you will end up with rusty spring perch threads, rendering your “adjustable” coilovers, non-adjustable after a short while. Our coilovers, and all parts for that matter have experienced the harshest environments conceivable, and have held up to the test.
7. Check the facts when researching the company you want to buy coilovers from. Pfadt Race Engineering can offer the following pedigree:
- A Utah company whose Camaro coilovers are manufactured in the United States and Germany. Aside from coilovers our entire Camaro product line is manufactured in the United States. Everyone is familiar with the quality difference between USA components and Asian counterparts.
- Professional backgrounds include tenure at General Motors, Chrysler, and Pratt & Miller Engineering (GM Factory Corvette and Camaro Racing)
- Education backgrounds include degrees from The Rochester Institute of Technology, The University of Utah, Philadelphia University, Penn State University, and The University of Michigan.
- We employ Society of Automotive Engineers professionals, just like select engineers from the Big Three.
- Our company competes in national races to prove our products in multiple markets.
- We are backed by GM Factory Camaro Racing driver Johnny O'Connell, on both 2010 Chevrolet Camaro and C5/C6 Chevrolet Corvette products. This is in addition to having a full suite of products that General Motors came to us to license, including these very coilovers.
The only Camaro race cars that are using commercially available coilovers from a manufacturer are using Pfadt Race Engineering coilovers due to their superior design. This fact does not sit easy with our competition, as they have no leg to stand on when it comes to professional performance. When we compete, we win. We have already been put up against all suspensions on equal cars for the first time at the Camaro5 Fest this past April. And much to our delight, we took victory in both competitions. Only Camaros competed, only Pfadt suspension took 1st place. This is a fact.
The Pfadt coilovers are built to suit street customers as well as racing customers. Having independent compression and rebound adjustment is great aspect to have, if done right, built right, with the correct materials, and adjusted properly, and not just used for a gimmick. There is a LOT more that goes into damper engineering than piston size. We build dampers in house, how many other people on Camaro5 can say that? Do you want us to dyno a coilover and give you the results? We can. Ask others for that info any you will get a confused look. We know how to properly engineer shim stacks to affect low and high speed compression and rebound characteristics. Simply throwing out a piston size makes no more sense in damper terminology than it does in engine building. Can you tell how "smooth" the power will come on by knowing the piston size in your engine? That is a sign that the person you are talking to is merely throwing out "industry buzz words" to confuse and distract the consumer from the inferior quality of their own products.
These are all facts you can count on, from a real American company that does not spin gimmicks, use cheap suppliers or make false claims to compete with other manufacturers.
PFADT RACING thats alot of good information and thanks for taking time to reply !
There is a lot of disinformation out there but in my opinion the Pfadt coil overs, while not being the lowest priced option, offer the biggest bang for the buck. For the money they are by far the best engineered and easiest to use coil over system available for these cars. Their coil overs are a big reason why we chose to carry the Pfadt product line over others. When GM built the Camaro SSx to demonstrate what the Camaro is truly capable of when it comes to handling performance they came to the same conclusion. The technical details have been laid out above but if I can be of assistance do not hesitate to hit me up.
They are both really good products, I know you cant go wrong with either. I chose the Supercar coilover from Peders because I wanted to enhance my launch in the 1/4 and still be able to carve up a track. The ability to get the weight transfer to the back and hold it for traction is amazing. I have hit both the 1/4 and road track with my setup and it is amazing, absolutely everthing I wanted out of my suspension. I have parts from both companies and would not change a thing, they are both great to work with as well. Very helpfull when I did my car and worked together to make sure it would all fit and perform as intended. Both are A+++++ in my book!
This thread has SHOOTOUT written all over it... LOL. You CAN'T loose with either company ;)
My experience with Pfadt Coilovers installed since July 2010 has been outstanding. Along with lowering my ride by 1.25" front, 1" rear for a more aggressive stance and dampening setting at Sport Street the ride has improved tremendously over OE.
Coupled with my Pfadt Sport Sway Bars/Endlinks, Rear Trailing Arms/bushings and Control Arm Stiffeners my Camaro feels like its on rails in curves and New Jersey's infamous cloverleaf on/exit ramps. These are the suspension components that should've been standard or at least a performance upgrade. I'm glad Pfadt products are now recognized, licensed and carried by GM Performance Parts - indicative of their leadership in aftermarket Camaro Suspension products.
Aaron and Blair are always accessible, answering all my pre-sales questions professionally and quickly.
For me - aka tjd24 - there is only one choice - Pfadt Race Engineering.
I can't spend a day at the Milford Proving Grounds without things getting out of control. :D I guess I have to put a damper on things. :laugh:
Yes our coilovers are GMPP Licensed. Yes Pedders coilovers were on the 2010 Indy Pace Cars.
Yes, Pedders coilovers are on Jay Leno's Camaro
Pedders coilovers are GMPP licensed for eight different vehicles by my memory. The 2011 Z Spec Cruse and 2012 Sonic concept cars are on Pedders Xa coilovers.
This is where the suspension and rubber meet the road. ONLY Pedders has been a member of the community since June 2007. We supported Camaro5 BEFORE we had anything to sell. Not only have we supported the Camaro5 community, we have kept them informed at every step of the development of the FASTEST documented street legal 5th Gen Camaro. From the CTS-V upgrade, which we do NOT sell and posted ONLY for the benefit of the community to our complete setup including thermal management. Pedders has posted every detail on how to achieve the highest levels of performance.
Drag Racing -- 8.95
Optima Challenge 1.50
The FASTEST 5th Gens run on Pedders Suspension.
Now that we know who makes the FASTEST suspension for drag and road-course we can move on to the differences of substance. Pedders does NOT make parts for race cars. We make street parts with street friendly urethane, coils and dampers. They are comfortable for daily driver use. We approach our suspension development from a unique perspective.
F1 cars weigh in at about 1,500 pounds. They have rear tire about 15" wide.
Pedders USA track ready 5th Gen with Driver weighs in at 4,183 pounds. To use damping and spring rates similar to an F1 car the rear wheels would need to be 2.87 times wider than a F1 car or 43" each. Conceptually this means that a street car like a Camaro weighs too much, has too much BHP and too much RWHP for the tires that will fit in the wheel wells. To optimise performance we have to take compliance out of the suspension -- gently -- and work within the constraints of available rubber.
NASCAR qualifying on ovals eats rubber. You could say they coil bind thier car to get the fastest lap time. They can't run a race that way becuase the setup eats tires -- becuase a NASCAR setup this way weighs too much, has too much BHP and too much RWHP for the tires that will fit in the wheel wells.
Our bits that are more aggressive are clearly labelled. EP1167 differential bushes are OE like quiet. Our higher durometer EP1167HDs use denser material and transmit more differential noise into the cabin. Our monster strong 32mm rear bar produces an oversteer bias and is labelled for competition use only.
But this thread is more focused on coilovers. For the 5th Gen we use 8Kg coils up front and 10Kg coils in the rear. These are matched to our fixed ratio Xa coilovers that set the fastest lap for a 5th Gen at the Optima Challenge and the fastest 5th Gen lap to date. We released the Supercar Remote Reservoir Independent Bound and Rebound Adjustable units in 2010. We attribute a full second to the Supercar equipped lap time at the Hot Rod Pony car event.
Both our Xa and Supercar coilovers adjust height by screwing the entire monotube into or out of the lower mount to adjust height. Not using the spring perch for height adjustment maintain optimum jounce travel regardless of ride height. Jounce travel, the amount of travel, is critical to ride comfort.
While we believe Pedders has documented every aspect of our Pedders USA Camaro the real bottom line is found on the street and track. It has always been Pedders philosophy to recommend YOU test drive a Pedders suspension before you buy it. All the posts and all the magazine articles mean nothing if you are not happy with your 5th modified suspension. My Dealers tell me that they close 100% of the people that get a test ride or drive in a Pedderised vehicle. I doubt the closing ratio is 100%, but I would be shocked if it wasn't close.
I am so confident in the Pedders product range for the 5th Gen Camaro that I'll guarantee your satisfaction. Coordinate your coilover purchase with one of my Dealers including installation. If you are not 100% satisfied with your new Pedders coilovers and installation I will refund you the cost of your parts AND installation. If you desire, we will also return your 5th Gen back to stock.
You can't go wrong with either company's products. Pfadt is a racing performance company; they design race products that CAN be used on the street; they are more expensive as a result. Pedders is a street performance company; they design street products that CAN be used on the track, and they are less expensive.
It depends on your plans for your car and what you are going to do with it. If you're going to drive 95%+ street and 5% or less track, Pedders is probably the better choice and allows you to buy more stuff because of their lower cost. If you're going to do more than 5% track; lots of autocross, road course type of driving then Pfadt would probably be best if your budget allows for it. But even if you went with Pedders your car would still probably be better than you are on the track unless you're really skilled.
You can mix the two; Pedders and Pfadt. I have Pedders bushings and Xa coilovers, and Pfadt sways and rear trailing arms, and I'm planning on adding their engine mounts soon. Both companies are top-notch and I dare say unless you're a top notch driver, you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference in performance. They both make great products.
All kidding aside, our Supercar coilovers are ideally suited for both daily driving and the track. The massive 52mm monotubes combined with huge remote reservoirs along with independent bound and rebound adjustment give the driver or crew incredible control over setup. There isn't a professional driver I have met that didn't want independent bound and rebound adjustment on thier race car. Here is what one hard core Pedders customer had to say.
Supercar Track Damper Settings from Full Soft
Front Bound 18
Front Rebound 16
Rear Bound 23
Rear Rebound 16
I use these on the street and the track because I love how light and precise the 4183 pound 5th Gen feels. For daily driving with ridiculous comfort you can use these settings.
Front Bound 8
Front Rebound 6
Rear Bound 10
Rear Rebound 5
Set for the street, our clients report that the ride quality is better than OE. Dan has had both Xa and Supercar coilovers. I don't think that any of our clients that have had both would ever go back to Xas. That is difficult for me to write becuase the Xa coilovers are an excellant product that our clients love on thier 5th Gen, GTO, G8, HHR, Cobalt, G6, Solstice, Sky, mustang, challenger, charger, magnum and 300C.
For the "what it's worth" department, I have a fairly extensive experience with Pete and Pedders - having run their Track II package on my 06 GTO with outstanding results. I have owned close to 40 performance cars and trucks and have seen every level of engineering and customer service out there.
As stated earlier in this thread, I do not believe you can go wrong with either company. Both are top tier products that are committed to our satisfaction. I personally know Pete is always there for support and has been (from my experience), since early 2006 with the GTO (04-06), group. Both Pete and the entire Pedders team are forward thinking, customer driven folks.
I am now back with my new 2011 Camaro V6 daily driver purchase and look forward to having Pedders components installed once again.
Just my .02 cents.
2011 Camaro V6 / LS
2008 Jeep GC SRT8 / 505RWHP/500TQ
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