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-   Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=136)
-   -   Z28 or ZL1 (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129303)

radz28 02-14-2011 10:40 AM

Z28 or ZL1
 
GM could be watching - so what do you think?

Honestly - despite the original Z28, I was hoping this ZL1 would've been Z28, however, my tiny bit of initial disappointment is GONE. I like, very much, that Chevy is tying the technology of the ZL-1 engine had into the complete technologically advanced package in ZL1.

So - should Z28 return as a direct competitor for the Boss? We already know it has a weight advantage, but we have a totally capable chassis and I think if we trickle some ZL1 technology down to Z28, it would more than make up for a weight advantage the Boss might have. Get the aero', brakes, MR shocks, and exhaust elements and add some more power to LS3, and I think we'd have a great competitor. I seriously doubt GM is going to strip Z28 down below what LS is now, so I'm not thinking no A/C, radio, rear set, etc.; and I'm not thinking a Gen V engine. Even though ZL1 is getting next generation MR technology before 'Vette and CTS-V, I don't think Z28 would get a new powertrain before them, too.

What sounds like a good package to you? Do you think Z28 should be positioned between SS and ZL1 in terms of price and performance? Should we just wait for the 6th Gen before bringing Z28 back?

:chevy::chevy::chevy:

BustedCrank 02-14-2011 10:56 AM

I was pleased with the name, and it leaves the Z28 name to compete with the Boss, as it should be.
I really think that they should not let the boss run around unanswered for that long. I do not think it would be very difficult to put a car together that is worthy of the name on this platform. Start with the ls7, may as well sell more while you can because there are not many going into z06s these days. If i remember right, there were less then 400 z06s built in 2010. Could use a wet sump to keep the cost down, I say give it the dry sump anyway. More money then putting a cam in the ls3 (like the 480 horse crate ls3), but still less then the LSA. Use the same transmission, rear end, and brakes the Zl1 is getting. Use a more aggressive spring setup then the SS uses, or go with a coil-over setup, but have the mag ride an option at least. Wheels from the SSX concept, wrapped with same goodyears as the ZL1. Limit the options to keep weight down, as in no sunroof or power seats, things like that. Maybe leave out some sound deadening material and weight saving treatment ala c5 z06. Use the zl1 front fascia or something similar to get some air to the brakes. Dont need the heat extraction hood from the ZL1 with the ls7, maybe the whole hood, same look as an SS, built with carbon fiber just for marketing purposes. Ground effects and rear spoiler the same or similar to the ZL1. I think this car could weigh an acceptable amount for this platform, easily beat a boss around a track, and be done between the price of an SS and ZL1 (albeit closer to the ZL1), and be a good car for the RPO code Z28.

On another note, no way a Z28 would be out before the zl1, and by then the new engines will be available. So maybe use the LT1 in a Z28 while still using a LS3 in the SS, and LSA in the ZL1. But I vote for an LS7, keep the new engine for the new generation and bring the sixth gen in with a bang.

People keep saying a z28 will not bring new buyers to the camaro. While a different body kit, little changes here and there wouldn't, I believe a Z28 with an LS7 would. If not new, it would definitely bring some returning customers from people trading in their SSs

Mr Twisty 02-14-2011 10:56 AM

In the end, it's not the name that makes a car great, it's the performance!

Call it Mildred if you want... If it goes like a scalded cat, I'm in :thumbsup:

midnighter 02-14-2011 11:02 AM

I had never heard of a ZL1 until this 2012 one came out, so the Z28 is a familiar moniker and my preferred choice. The only other specialty Camaros I had heard of from '69 were the Yenkos and the Copos. I was born in '73, so that may be why :)

Mr Twisty 02-14-2011 11:07 AM

I can't vote... The bottom 2 apply, and depending on what a Z/28 consisted of, I may back-pedal to a ZL1 :iono:

Having said that... If they built a car with the new 5.5, even de-stroked to a high-revving 5.0, and call it a 302, that would be cool.
They already have the bigger brakes in the bins,
go to Recaro for a lightweight seating option,
stiffen up the suspension bushings,
4.10 rear axle ratio,
flare the front fenders a bit and put 305 (or 295) wide tires all 4 corners with light wheels,
..... That's a start, and I haven't really added anything that would be a bank breaker except for the motor redesign.

Sawyer 02-14-2011 11:18 AM

praying for a 5.5 direct engine V8 with 373's better exaust, intake, etc.

lil_red_v6 02-14-2011 12:39 PM

i cant make a choice on that. the zl1 is a mean machine and of the code name z28 comes out yea i said IF ,then it comes out. who knows. it would be a great car too. think about this thought would the SSX be the z28?

CamaroSkooter 02-14-2011 01:14 PM

Here's a question:

With the 5th Generation Camaros, if a Z/28 were to be built, where should it stand in relation to the existing trim levels?

ZL1 > SS > Z/28 > V6

or

ZL1 > Z/28 > SS > V6

If the latter, how do you think that would make the current SS owners feel? :popcorn:

el ess A 02-14-2011 01:34 PM

It APPEARS they're trying to stay true to the 69 era with the ZL1 being the bad azz apple of the bunch. So, since back in the day, the SS was the next in line street hauler, then the Z28, but I could go with CamaroSkooter's latter. And I'm ok with that.

But that said, if the Z28 has great suspension and other technology, we may have to pay for that, so you MIGHT end up with Z28 > SS. Which is still ok with me. A turbo or supercharged V6 with suspension mods that was called Z28 would ALMOST work too, but then it would be breaking with tradition in that a Z28 having a V6 for the first time EVER. But you never know.

Final analysis....it really doesn't matter. They are building Camaros. We WIN!

Mr. Wyndham 02-14-2011 01:40 PM

I wanted the ZL1 to be named "Z28"....It's not, and I can say I've gotten used to it. The reasons I wanted it to be called Z28 were purely selfish...My Dad has a '79 Z28 and I thought it would be freaking cool to have a Z28 just like the old man.

But the formula they used for the ZL1 is what I wanted in a Camaro. A Boss-type Camaro is not what I wanted...

So -- do I think they should bring back the name? Absolutely - it's much too honored and respected to be collecting dust. Do I think they should make it a Boss-eater? Again, absolutely...there's no other position for it:

We've got the economy Camaros in the LS and LTs,
The everyday performance Camaro in the SS,
The King of Camaros in the ZL1,
and if a Z28 comes back we'll have our track-master.

I fully expect a Z28 to take no prisoners, and be amazing at what it's intended to do -- but I'm not going to wait for it. I belong in a ZL1. So that's what I'll try and get. :thumbsup:

radz28 02-14-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 2839880)
I wanted the ZL1 to be named "Z28"....It's not, and I can say I've gotten used to it. The reasons I wanted it to be called Z28 were purely selfish...My Dad has a '79 Z28 and I thought it would be freaking cool to have a Z28 just like the old man.

But the formula they used for the ZL1 is what I wanted in a Camaro. A Boss-type Camaro is not what I wanted...

So -- do I think they should bring back the name? Absolutely - it's much too honored and respected to be collecting dust. Do I think they should make it a Boss-eater? Again, absolutely...there's no other position for it:

We've got the economy Camaros in the LS and LTs,
The everyday performance Camaro in the SS,
The King of Camaros in the ZL1,
and if a Z28 comes back we'll have our track-master.

I fully expect a Z28 to take no prisoners, and be amazing at what it's intended to do -- but I'm not going to wait for it. I belong in a ZL1. So that's what I'll try and get. :thumbsup:

THESE!!! My quotes for the day. MUCHO KUDOS!!! :clap::headbang::bow::respekt::drinking:

Mr. Wyndham 02-14-2011 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 2839899)
THESE!!! My quotes for the day. MUCHO KUDOS!!! :clap::headbang::bow::respekt::drinking:

You're welcome? :laugh:

:thumbsup: :respekt:

radz28 02-14-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 2839909)
You're welcome? :laugh:

:thumbsup: :respekt:

Well - they're selfish because my first car was a '95 Z28. My dad is Mustang-guy, so I had to make that tiny distinction :D

SonnyakaPig 02-14-2011 02:34 PM

Nice idea. And I think GM is watching. I think they are paying very close attention to the online forums because if you look at the ZL1, you see exactly what the gen5 Camaro guys are aiming for: power, handling and reliabilty.

GM claims to have really beefed up the driveline to handle the F/I power and they provided a vented hood, so we know that vented hoods are a real good idea for this particular engine bay when there is a blower underneath.

The ZL1 would suit me just fine. In fact, I would love one, but I will just be an admirer.

I think the Z28 should be on hold until the next gen, smaller chassis comes out.

Even though we can help our cars lose weight and we can do suspension mods, I would rather wait for a smaller chassis and less weight to begin wtih.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the Z28 be N/A.

91Z28350 02-14-2011 02:55 PM

I think the Z28 is best served on the lighter Alpha platform; it really seems that GM is using '69 as a strategy for placement of these names. If they are attempting to stay true to the heritage of the Camaro, then the Z28 should be a lighter weight, road course tuned, corner carver, with enough oomph to give the SS all it can handle, if not outright smoke it. Therefore, I see it as being above the SS in price, with an almost sports car focus (as opposed to the SS which is an all around good performer at a good price point). Ford, IMO, targeted the Boss exactly right, I "Have Faith" that Chevrolet will as well.

Oh and for the poll, after the ZL1, barring some even more unbelievable Super Camaro, it's future stablemate will be a Corvette (unless the the Z28 is uber awesome, then I reserve the right to waffle!;) )

SonnyakaPig 02-14-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91Z28350 (Post 2840185)
I think the Z28 is best served on the lighter Alpha platform; it really seems that GM is using '69 as a strategy for placement of these names. If they are attempting to stay true to the heritage of the Camaro, then the Z28 should be a lighter weight, road course tuned, corner carver, with enough oomph to give the SS all it can handle, if not outright smoke it. Therefore, I see it as being above the SS in price, with an almost sports car focus (as opposed to the SS which is an all around good performer at a good price point). Ford, IMO, targeted the Boss exactly right, I "Have Faith" that Chevrolet will as well.

Oh and for the poll, after the ZL1, barring some even more unbelievable Super Camaro, it's future stablemate will be a Corvette (unless the the Z28 is uber awesome, then I reserve the right to waffle!;) )

Very good post. :thumbsup:

motorhead 02-14-2011 03:08 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The name means nothing to me. I don't car if they called it cougar or thunderbird. If it still looks like and has the performance that this new ZL/1 has, I would buy one.

radz28 02-14-2011 03:23 PM

GM is listening. I can't say they're listening here, but the encourage Twitter comments and I've read there are members here, that we don't even know about being on Team CAMARO. We already know of an obvious few ;), but one just doesn't really know who they're talking to nowadays.

Be heard! Say something! Be helpful and constructive! They won't build it unless you ask for it enough!

OldJedi 02-14-2011 03:43 PM

Radz, like you and few others I was a little disappointed that they did not name the new car Z28, but like Dragoneye I have gotten over it and can live with the name ZL1 very easily. At least they did not name it HPE! I truly believe that the Z28 will be built but my best guess is that they will wait for the new chassis. I think the ZL1 will be built until the new Alpha chassis Camaro is released and then it will be dropped in favor of the 5.5 DI Z28. Now, considering that I have been wrong the majority of the time with my guesses on this forum, you might be wise not to put a lot of weight on what I say. But on the other hand I am bound to be right at least once in my life, it just might not be this time.

radz28 02-14-2011 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldJedi (Post 2840387)
Radz, like you and few others I was a little disappointed that they did not name the new car Z28, but like Dragoneye I have gotten over it and can live with the name ZL1 very easily. At least they did not name it HPE! I truly believe that the Z28 will be built but my best guess is that they will wait for the new chassis. I think the ZL1 will be built until the new Alpha chassis Camaro is released and then it will be dropped in favor of the 5.5 DI Z28. Now, considering that I have been wrong the majority of the time with my guesses on this forum, you might be wise not to put a lot of weight on what I say. But on the other hand I am bound to be right at least once in my life, it just might not be this time.

Yeah - I'm over it, like you guys; I'm very much in support of ZL1 now. It makes a lot more sense after the intial shock shakes off. Though I never thought they'd give it that awful name, you just never know; ZL1 is a perfect example, for me; I never took it that seriously. I was right on LSA, the brakes, MR, and some other goodies, but am so pleased I can't even express with the additional stuff. I couldn't be more pleased unless we learn the price is just right.

You may be right on the new chassis though. Because I believe (only through internet conjecture) the 6th Gen will come around 2015, I just don't think it's good for GM to wait that long. I don't think they'll run 5th and 6th Gen models side-by-side, so I'm thinking we'll see it sooner. I think it'd be super-easy to adjust the shocks, springs and swaybars on ZL1 for a lighter Gen IV 6.2, add some power (a bit bigger cam, EPS, tubular manifolds, dual-mode exhaust, etc.), lose some content (thinner glass, less sound deadening, no back seat, optional lighter Recaros, etc.) to lower the mass, and run a different aero' package (Leno features) and SSX wheels, and we have a WINNER. Obviously, validation and all that good stuff takes time, but the Boss has been introduced for a while, so I don't think it'd take long to shift from ZL1 completion (probably through the summer into fall) and get into Z28 the second quarter of 2012. I don't think it's a good idea to wait for a couple more years, but I'm not sure it could happen that fast.

DanSS24 02-14-2011 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 2840307)
GM is listening. I can't say they're listening here, but the encourage Twitter comments and I've read there are members here, that we don't even know about being on Team CAMARO. We already know of an obvious few ;), but one just doesn't really know who they're talking to nowadays.

Be heard! Say something! Be helpful and constructive! They won't build it unless you ask for it enough!

I'm pretty sure seeing and listening in on this forum...especially this forum. I've been on the other forum and do not see 1/4 of ZL1 info on there

v6sonoma 02-14-2011 07:06 PM

I don't care what they call them. As long as it's a Camaro and it's Bad@$$ I'll be happy.

Mikes SS 02-14-2011 07:11 PM

I voted ZL1 works suites me just fine, but not because I don't wish to see the Z/28 coming out soon. In my opinion it will be out and GM is holding all the cards. The ZL1 will be the perfect match for the GT500 and stomp it. As i said in a earlier post if they make a 5th gen Z/28 it should have the 5.3L engine with a hot hot cam better flowing heads maybe some headers (get around 450 hp out of it NA) shave 500 lbs with carbon fiber where ever they can. Recaro seats would be a plus. It should fit in between the SS and the ZL1. I love the ZL1 wheels and the Z/28 should have its own wheels too maybe the SSX wheels. I want to be selfish too and be able to say to the mustang crowd, "bring me your best we have one better"

SQUALO 02-14-2011 07:19 PM

Basically, I think the Z28 should be the most powerful Camaro without a supercharger,
that can be produced. They have to be able to be enjoyed on the road, and compete at the track, with
AUTOMATIC & MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS AVAILABLE...PERIOD, END OF STORY!

PLEASE BRING BACK THE Z28 NAMEPLATE!

Mr. Wyndham 02-14-2011 07:52 PM

You know, I've been thinking......they did extensive aerodynamic and handling modifications to the Camaro when they created the ZL1....

While I like to entertain the thought that there will be a Z28 produced.....I can't help but look at the ZL1 as a Camaro with all the handling prowess we're looking for in a Z28...and then they went and added a metric crap-ton of power on top...


I wonder (this is PURELY speculation)....

What if the ZL1 can out-handle a Boss? Would anybody feel the need for a Z28 competitor for reasons other than to see the name return?


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