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-   -   Broke a valve spring underboost..I think (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132873)

lexlueger 03-04-2011 10:25 AM

Broke a valve spring underboost..I think
 
:( yeah soooo... My car lasted 2 whole days after getting my supercharger(2300) installed. Went out on Wednesday to run a few errands and decided ehhh WTH I'll take the camaro! Never made it... I was cruising along about 38 mph ish and punched it. It ran fine the day before but this time it sounded "funny". I could see that the car was making boost*around 6-7 psi* and it was injecting methanol according to boost as it should.
No loud pops or bangs, it just felt like a misfire of some sorts. Horrible idle and stuttering. Soo I popped the hood and the actuator/wastgage? on the maggie is moving back and forth with the rpms WTF!?!?
Long story short got it towed and yeah broken valve spring. I was running Mast's VVT stage 1 cam and nitrited beehive springs.
The car had been cammed for almost a year only one issue..It threw a cam over advance code on long trips but always cleared itself.

What could have caused this...any ideas or next course of action? Should I call MAST:mad0260:

Darth_Emma 03-04-2011 11:31 AM

I'm not clear on this, are the stock valve springs still in the car?

pyr0b0y 03-04-2011 11:39 AM

so you upgraded just the cam by itself? When i upgraded my cam i upgraded the valves, rockers, pushrods, and timing chain. I didnt mind putting a little extra money into the car because I wanted to be safe.

Jason 98 TA 03-04-2011 11:41 AM

Hope the valve isn't bent! That's exactly the reason we like to see customers buy our double spring kit instead of single springs. If a single spring fails there's nothing to keep the valve up :( :(

The good news is if you have to swap valves in theheads it just gives you a reason to do cnc ported heads!! :) :)

garcmol 03-04-2011 11:43 AM

Quote:

I was running Mast's VVT stage 1 cam and nitrited beehive springs.
Valve/Head/Cyclinder wall/piston damage? Did it drop?

pyr0b0y 03-04-2011 12:12 PM

I was also told that I run the risk of the springs collapsing, especially with how much power you are putting out there will be a lot of stress on them.

victoryred1ss 03-04-2011 12:20 PM

Sounds like cheap valve springs. Hope it didnt cause too much damage. Like Jason said I would go with double valve springs from a good company.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lexlueger (Post 2916295)
:( yeah soooo... My car lasted 2 whole days after getting my supercharger(2300) installed. Went out on Wednesday to run a few errands and decided ehhh WTH I'll take the camaro! Never made it... I was cruising along about 38 mph ish and punched it. It ran fine the day before but this time it sounded "funny". I could see that the car was making boost*around 6-7 psi* and it was injecting methanol according to boost as it should.
No loud pops or bangs, it just felt like a misfire of some sorts. Horrible idle and stuttering. Soo I popped the hood and the actuator/wastgage? on the maggie is moving back and forth with the rpms WTF!?!?
Long story short got it towed and yeah broken valve spring. I was running Mast's VVT stage 1 cam and nitrited beehive springs.
The car had been cammed for almost a year only one issue..It threw a cam over advance code on long trips but always cleared itself.

What could have caused this...any ideas or next course of action? Should I call MAST:mad0260:


ravensjeff 03-04-2011 01:46 PM

I'd say it's time for some real head work.

Sam88gta1 03-04-2011 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA (Post 2916655)
Hope the valve isn't bent! That's exactly the reason we like to see customers buy our double spring kit instead of single springs. If a single spring fails there's nothing to keep the valve up :( :(

The good news is if you have to swap valves in theheads it just gives you a reason to do cnc ported heads!! :) :)

The dual spring does not keep the valve from contacting the piston.
Do you guys have spring failures with the PRC duals?

lexlueger 03-04-2011 03:44 PM

Update: No it was not the stock springs.
I bought bought cam and springs from Mast.

The valve is also bent!!

lexlueger 03-04-2011 03:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
:cry:

garcmol 03-04-2011 04:13 PM

So does Mast back those springs for any amount of time? You gonna pull all of them and replace? I'm assuming the head is coming off to check for more (if any) damage. That sucks.

CyberPredator 03-04-2011 06:46 PM

generally on cars you don't drive very often that have extreme valve springs with a big cam(granted i have no idea how big your cam is) you change the springs once a year. From what I hear with the car sitting for long periods with some of the upgraded valve springs fully compressed they tend to become fragile. On race engines the rockers are often released after racing is done to take pressure off the valve springs while the car isn't being used. All of the previous things stated are gathered from info over time, some maybe true, some maybe false, just something to think about. On my built gto i ran very similar springs and put 28000 miles on them with no problems but it was all in 1 year and then changed them after a year because of the things i previously stated

lexlueger 03-04-2011 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 2917700)
So does Mast back those springs for any amount of time? You gonna pull all of them and replace? I'm assuming the head is coming off to check for more (if any) damage. That sucks.

No idea. I'll find out on Monday if their willing to do something for me:iono:.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPredator (Post 2918221)
generally on cars you don't drive very often that have extreme valve springs with a big cam(granted i have no idea how big your cam is) you change the springs once a year. From what I hear with the car sitting for long periods with some of the upgraded valve springs fully compressed they tend to become fragile. On race engines the rockers are often released after racing is done to take pressure off the valve springs while the car isn't being used. All of the previous things stated are gathered from info over time, some maybe true, some maybe false, just something to think about. On my built gto i ran very similar springs and put 28000 miles on them with no problems but it was all in 1 year and then changed them after a year because of the things i previously stated

The car is driven quite often. I think your referring to dual springs. Beehive tend to last a bit longer, It was one of the reasons I went with them..

CyberPredator 03-05-2011 01:36 AM

yes I was referring to dual springs. Good luck with everything. I hope she gets tip top shape soon.

lexlueger 03-05-2011 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA (Post 2916655)
Hope the valve isn't bent! That's exactly the reason we like to see customers buy our double spring kit instead of single springs. If a single spring fails there's nothing to keep the valve up :( :(

The good news is if you have to swap valves in theheads it just gives you a reason to do cnc ported heads!! :) :)

You use dual springs with your VVT setup ?
What would I pickup RWHP wise from a set of heads? I'm cammed, supercharged and running meth.

94guy 03-05-2011 09:55 AM

i would if those are PAC springs? 1518 or 1218?

lexlueger 03-05-2011 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94guy (Post 2920475)
i would if those are PAC springs? 1518 or 1218?

I don't believe the ones included in the Mast cam kit are PAC's...The PAC 1518 were recommended as replacements for the Mast springs.

Stingr69 03-05-2011 11:25 AM

Look a bit like Comp's beehive springs. I know Comp had that spring breakage issue on thier beehives a couple of years back but if we are still seeing problems....

I would trust PAC's beehive springs. That is what I have in my 302 now.

-Mark.

lexlueger 03-05-2011 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingr69 (Post 2920712)
Look a bit like Comp's beehive springs. I know Comp had that spring breakage issue on thier beehives a couple of years back but if we are still seeing problems....

I would trust PAC's beehive springs. That is what I have in my 302 now.

-Mark.

Thanks! I'll go with the PAC

Slowhawk 03-05-2011 08:06 PM

Just make sure you cam isn't retarding too much to cause P/V contact.

Valve springs can/do break. I've found the single springs weaken faster than the duals when the cars are stored for long periods of time.

Ovenmitt 03-05-2011 08:19 PM

Beehives wont handle the valve load required to control a cammed car under boost. They just wont. Put in some quality duals, and call it a day

lexlueger 03-05-2011 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ovenmitt (Post 2922242)
Beehives wont handle the valve load required to control a cammed car under boost. They just wont. Put in some quality duals, and call it a day

I have never heard that before... maybe one of shops/tuners can chime in on that:iono:. Also I'm not sure if I can run duals with a VVT setup.

camaro1 03-06-2011 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ovenmitt (Post 2922242)
Beehives wont handle the valve load required to control a cammed car under boost. They just wont. Put in some quality duals, and call it a day

not true at all , pac makes some very good single springs, i have been using them for years in my builds.

lexlueger 03-07-2011 05:56 PM

Latest news..Valve guide is also cracked. Pistons dinged up and the valve and pushrod are obviously history. Do I repair the valve guide and do forged pistons, rods and some pac springs? or just say F*** it and go aftermarket heads and forged bottom end*crank and all*. The later requires me to sell a kidney:(


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