Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/index.php)
-   Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=136)
-   -   Z28 and the 5th Gen Refresh. (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146772)

thePill 05-12-2011 11:22 AM

Z28 and the 5th Gen Refresh.
 
1 Attachment(s)
It occurred to me today that the 5th Gen Z28 should be released with the 5th Gen refresh and the perfect time to refresh the 5th Gen would be model year 2013. Since the Camaro's model year is typically from July to July, I believe that the Z28 should be a mid-model year release like the ZL1 is going to be... and here is why:

First off, the ZL1 will be released in February 2012 and I'm pretty sure those models will be snatched up fairly quick. If the 5th Gen were to be refreshed the year after, it would make the 2012 ZL1 very, very exclusive and lets face it, those who buy a ZL1 want to be exclusive.

Next, The Z28 should mirror the release of the ZL1 around the February time frame. In fact, all of the Camaro's performance models like the ZL1 and Z28 should be released in the 1st quarter of every year. This ensures that the performance models reach customers hands before the racing season starts in April/May. Also, by the time February 2013 rolls around, the Camaro's sales will be slumping further than they ever have. Sales will naturally start to fall regardless of the looks, performance and sometimes even the MSRP cannot be low enough. The 2013 Camaro would receive its refresh in July 2012 and by that time, the convertible sales will have leveled out to regular convertible sales, the ZL1's sales will have peaked in the spring and will be long gone and the base LT/SS's will need a bump. The July 2012 refresh will be just in time and open the door to the upcoming 2013 Z28 and give GM the opportunity to make the refresh more race/competition focused and take a more modern approach to the 5th Gen Camaro. Along with the natural decline in interest and sales of the 5th Gen, Ford will begin to circulate spy photo's and information about the 50th Anniversary "Mustang III" that should begin production in the first quarter of 2014.

GM will need to make noticeable improvements to the 5th Gen in order to stay competitive and attract some of the media's attention. There are drivetrain improvements that could be done and if that is the approach GM is considering, expect to see some pretty unique range of engine options and horsepower ratings. GM has a plethora of engine options and I would imagine that some of those more limited options may see the light of day just to remain competitive with the obviously older chassis and styling (the roles will be reversed). Performance is one thing and something that will get pretty interesting on the GM side during that time but the styling is where GM will pull in more of those stray consumers. The Camaro's competition will move to the more modern styling and therefore, so will the Camaro. I'm not saying that the 5th Gen will completely change overnight but I can see them taking a few pages from the 3rd and 4th Gen... In which both of those generations have a HUGE fanbase. I have noticed in Grand Am that the Rolex Sports Car Series GT Camaro's have slightly altered the headlights for aerodynamics. I see a modern 3rd and 4th Gen Camaro trying to get out and a possible 2013 Z28 rendition. It is modern, it looks aggressive and race ready, it keeps everything the people loved about the 5th Gen and improves on the current design.

http://www.janmagnussen.com/Images/N...6074207big.jpg

It's simplistic and with a little work to the lower fascia, I'm sure GM could get the top and bottom to work together. I can practically see the 2013 refreshed Camaro and a Z28 right here. It reminds me so much of the 3rd Gen and changing it up a little would secure the 2010-2012 Camaro exclusiveness and build the current design more into a race ready vehicle. The picture above is just something the Camaro GT.R teams threw together to improve aerodynamics and protect the headlights from debris, but I think GM could really turn this simple headlight design into something better and more modern to keep the sales up. This simple design also makes the current Camaro look more classic and somewhat dated compared to what the GT.R is now. This Camaro looks like its ready to work and with the slight adjustment to the fascia, makes the Camaro look drastically different and in my opinion better. What better to introduce the 2013 Camaro Z28 design than to actually use the Grand Am GT.R front fascia. Born and Bred race car...

EDIT: 2013 CAMARO Z28, I made adjustments to a render of the 2006 Chevrolet Camaro concept by X-Raited Creations. This original concept was not my creation.

thePill 05-12-2011 12:22 PM

Some more angles on my proposed 2013 Z28 5th Gen Camaro refresh. This is just a simple headlight cover but it really changes the Camaro's looks. Imagine if the lower fascia was changed to complement the new headlights, work the grille maybe flush with the headlights for more aerodynamics. Use the Bumblebee/ZL1 brake ducts/driver lamp cluster standard. Need some feedback here... or some help...

I like the black Camaro here, Black always wins.

http://camarochevy.files.wordpress.c...4488340_n1.jpghttp://jonsibal.com/bpimages/CamaroGTR_13.jpghttp://jonsibal.com/bpimages/CamaroGTR_14.jpghttp://jonsibal.com/bpimages/CamaroGTR_10.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/...c340ba73be.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1028/...01584c3046.jpg

Nice profile shot here, looks really clean. The bumper cover was altered to accommodate the new headlight shields.

http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0...-2011-0051.jpg


This looks really aggressive, very race car inspired look. Just the simple change in headlight design and the car looks significantly different.
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2589/981176.jpg

The yellow tint is from rubber debris and grime from racing, the headlight cluster is used on this Camaro. Something worth looking at.
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2589/981174.jpg

2cnd chance 05-12-2011 05:17 PM

I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".

Dznts 05-12-2011 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance (Post 3211846)
I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".

lol:sm0:

DGthe3 05-13-2011 12:33 AM

What refresh?

14pilot 05-13-2011 12:47 AM

I really like this
 
http://www.carversation.com/wp-conte...3-1024x768.jpg
http://www.carversation.com/wp-conte...t-1024x768.jpg[/

thePill 05-13-2011 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3 (Post 3213458)
What refresh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance (Post 3211846)
I hear ya, its functional, but only 1 issue "it's ugly".

If GM intends for the 5th Gen to continue to sell in large volumes, there will most likely have to be a model refresh somewhere around the middle of the 5th Gens life. The goal is obviously to outsell the Mustang and with the Mustang III coming up, the 5th Gen will be a tired body style by then. It was after the S197's third year that sales began to slow down and that was mainly from an economic event. In order to remain competitive, GM will get creative with drivetrains accompanied by a mid generation refresh to keep heads turning. The only issue will be the dedicated few that have been heavily influenced by the current styling and will have a difficult time accepting any changes to the Camaro. GM should not forget that 1% of enthusiast but GM should not be held hostage by them either. We are concerned what the other 99% of potential buyers think... and I think GM needs to explore the modern approach.

I have occasionally tampered with the current 5th Gen Camaro to try and refresh the front fascia and I will tell you, it is a very difficult task. I am a fairly decent photoshop artist but trying to redesign the Camaro without destroying the original lines that GM laid down while improving the exterior is horrible. The one problem I repeatedly encountered was remodeling the headlights. As long as the headlights remained unchanged, the Camaro would keep the same original 5th Gen look. I know that most will say that there is nothing wrong with the current Camaro and, that may be true. But realize that those who agree with you are the 1% of consumers who bought the Camaro, and 99% of future buyers will not want a 2010 Camaro in 2013. In my educated opinion, (and I say educated because I have spent the last 21-22 years involved with Camaro enthusiast in one way or another) Camaro enthusiast are some of the most difficult car enthusiast to please. Every time a new generation Camaro comes out, it creates a new generation of brand elitist that eventually despises every other car made, including other Camaro's. What we need is to work on the car to formulate a Camaro that doesn't just speak to that 1%, but caters to the other 99% while improving on the areas only us... scratch that... only you, the 1% of enthusiast can identify with. That 99% of consumers are going to mainly pay attention to the exterior design because sadly, that's all they know about cars...

Blizzard 05-13-2011 08:42 AM

Jinx has done some awesome photoshops in the past, here is the link to his Z28. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=z28

thePill 05-13-2011 10:14 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Post 3214033)
Jinx has done some awesome photoshops in the past, here is the link to his Z28. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=z28

I love the lower fascia, the small side ducts w/drivers light and the lower grille with the extra duct intakes incorporated into the lower grille. Then again, it still look like the same ol' 5th Gen in the front. The headlight and upper grille design is powerful as it pretty much defines the entire vehicles looks. If the headlights and grille are changed slightly, it alters the entire look of the car. I still like the fictional headlight cover that the GT.R uses...

Mr. Wyndham 05-13-2011 10:22 AM

Those headlight cover-thingies are gross. Keep 'em on the race cars where they belong, thank you.

And I say let the professionals determine when and how to make changes to keep the car fresh...rather than jumping the gun. ;)

thePill 05-13-2011 10:23 AM

3 Attachment(s)
The picture below looks like a more race oriented ZL1, although the bumper cover itself is far to slender, the design is pretty cool. Put the Jay Leno hood on this Camaro and it would have my vote.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8...aro09smsp1.jpg

I can see a 2013 Z28 here but I'm having trouble getting away from the current design...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../sa600copy.jpg

Here are some interesting lower fascia work. I love the first picture below, it is simple and very functional. It is similar to the 2012 Boss 302's lower valance that shovels cool air into the radiator and has the capability to mount a brake duct kit on each side. The second pic is really just a one piece splitter but the raised fascia section around the fog light is unique. The third pic is an advanced bumper cover and front fascia with primary brake duct ports in the fascia and secondary duct ports in the lower valance. The whole design is more rounded and really creates a more sleek look to the 5th Gen. The splitter is a two piece design and is part of the fascia and is not just a bolt on. This is a very modern look and while it may look a little busy, I would like to graph the GT.R's headlight covers onto this rendition and see what we get. Also, you see the hips on the third pic look more like a fin and express much sharper lines in the rear (Corvette style). Someone mentioned earlier that GM needs to do rework the body panels to make the Camaro appear to be smaller than it actually is. This would mean tucking in some of HUGE rear end and front fascia. I was in one of these Camaro's yesterday (for research) and upon approaching the vehicle, it always astonishes me how physically big this car is. It makes my Mustang look tiny...

thePill 05-13-2011 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye (Post 3214489)
Those headlight cover-thingies are gross. Keep 'em on the race cars where they belong, thank you.

And I say let the professionals determine when and how to make changes to keep the car fresh...rather than jumping the gun.

You are within that 1% of dedicated Camaro enthusiast that have been heavily influenced by the current 5th Gen Camaro. At this point, any gradual changes will receive heavy fire from the 1% but will be widely accepted and loved by the 99% that just love new automobiles. Like I said, this will be the most difficult task GM and Team Camaro have ever had to carry out. There was an overwhelming portion of that 1% that found the ZL1's design to be flawed so I would hope that you would agree with me on this. I have a bone to pick with the ZL1's design because I know where they got it from and most people do not know that the fascia was borrowed. I want the Z28 to be original not like the ZL1's design was. I would like that the 5th Gen refresh was distinct enough to separate the 5th Gen from the 5.1 Gen but not drastic enough to lose their base but, I have a feeling thet there will be quite a few 1%ers that do not like version 5.1. Just be prepared to be supportive and display some acceptance when we start seeing the refresh...

I really want to see the front end rounded off a little bit like the last pic I posted. The rear end needs to calm down a little, round down some of those extreme accents and, as you said, tuck some of that mass in a little...

DGthe3 05-13-2011 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thePill (Post 3213727)
If GM intends for the 5th Gen to continue to sell in large volumes, there will most likely have to be a model refresh somewhere around the middle of the 5th Gens life. The goal is obviously to outsell the Mustang and with the Mustang III coming up, the 5th Gen will be a tired body style by then. It was after the S197's third year that sales began to slow down and that was mainly from an economic event. In order to remain competitive, GM will get creative with drivetrains accompanied by a mid generation refresh to keep heads turning. The only issue will be the dedicated few that have been heavily influenced by the current styling and will have a difficult time accepting any changes to the Camaro. GM should not forget that 1% of enthusiast but GM should not be held hostage by them either. We are concerned what the other 99% of potential buyers think... and I think GM needs to explore the modern approach.

The modern approach is to not do a refresh. That is the old, cheap way of doing things. When you want to milk a platform for all its worth and merely keep a product competitive, but not excellent. You only need to do refreshes when you have an extended product life. Keep the life short, and you no longer need to do a half-assed attempt at making an old car look new. Plus, making small additions to the lineup on a continual basis keeps it fresh. Such as a convertible ~2 years in, then a super high performance version ~3 years in, followed by new engines and so on. Then after a 5 or 6 year run, move to the next generation and skip the refresh altogether. The next gen Mustang is expected what, 2014ish? 6th gen Camaro is expected 2015ish.

thePill 05-13-2011 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3 (Post 3214944)
The modern approach is to not do a refresh. That is the old, cheap way of doing things. When you want to milk a platform for all its worth and merely keep a product competitive, but not excellent. You only need to do refreshes when you have an extended product life. Keep the life short, and you no longer need to do a half-assed attempt at making an old car look new. Plus, making small additions to the lineup on a continual basis keeps it fresh. Such as a convertible ~2 years in, then a super high performance version ~3 years in, followed by new engines and so on. Then after a 5 or 6 year run, move to the next generation and skip the refresh altogether. The next gen Mustang is expected what, 2014ish? 6th gen Camaro is expected 2015ish.

I think Fbod said that 2015 redesign wasn't going to happen so I think a 50th Anniversary redesign would be fitting. I don't know if the Camaro has enough appeal to go unchanged all the way to 2017, I don't even think it would sustain sales up until 2015 without some new body work. The Z28 will no doubt help pull some attention but I believe it will be another limited edition. If the 5th Gen Camaro last 7 years that would see the maximum profits being made from this generation. If GM were to change it too soon, say 2015, then the 5th Gen may not cover the cost of R&D and IP and they would be in the hole again throughout the 6th Gens life too. 7 Years gives GM the time to pull out all the tricks like a Z28, 6 month interval special editions, a mid-gen refresh and some unique drivetrain additions like an LS9, LS7 and SSX LS3. The Mustang III will be seen camo'd around the spring/summer of 2012, details won't go public until Ford gets rid of the majority of 2013's (for sales and hold outs). That would be a perfect time for GM to shake things up with a refresh, a new Z28 and another, improved ZL1. There will need to be drastic measures taken by Team Camaro when the Mustang III starts hitting the rumor mill. I think that the Camaro should do its own thing (like the Challenger does now) after the 2014 Mustang comes out, If they chase Ford it could force them into a premature redesign and if sales are still good, there is no need to do that. Nobody is going to cross shop a 3400lbs, 440hp car to a 4000lbs, 430hp car...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.