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-   -   DIY: Front Door Component speaker (Hertz 165 HSK) install (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151744)

JohnnyComeLately 06-08-2011 12:55 PM

DIY: Front Door Component speaker (Hertz 165 HSK) install
 
Quick video I made of pitting in Hertz HSK 165 6.5" component speakers and Dynamatting the doors. You'll see how I put the crossover inside the car, behind the sound deadening mat of the door panel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmtj81AvKw4

:headbang:

TAG UR IT 07-07-2011 10:15 AM

why did you go with the hertz speakers, how much were they, and did you install a new amp to power them?

I've been contemplating changing out all the speakers and adding a new amp. I like your install...very clean. Good job. Just thinking of what speakers to go with and what amp.

JohnnyComeLately 07-07-2011 01:08 PM

I went with Hertz after listening to JL Audio, Alpine, Focal, Dynaudio, MB Quarts, Eclipse, and a few other speakers I'm forgetting. I also listened to Hertz at 3 different Hertz dealers just to try and eliminate any bias from one or another dealer's set up. The Hertz had the cleanest, neutral mid-bass and the clearest highs without any listening fatigue from high volume for long durations. I threw in U2, Rush, Lady GaGa, and a few other CDs to hear the speakers under different conditions, and I literally stood there for close to an hour listening to these. I also closed my eyes and then signaled to them to switch speakers without telling me which... I always came back to the Hertz Hi Energy HSK 165s, even next to the $800 and $1100 Hertz speakers. It wasn't like Focals where I loved the $500, until I heard the $700, and then I loved the $700 until I heard the $1100. The HSK 165s sounded great.

Now, just to caveat this: The Milles did sound better with some source, but only On-Axis... Meaning, you had to be directly between the speakers, which doesn't happen in a car. No one listens with their head down by their center console. The other is that the XL sounds better with more power than I'm running. If you're running a clean 150 RMS per channel, than go with the Hertz Hi Energy HSK 165 XL... I'm not. I'm running 50-100 and the non-XL sounds great. The XLs handle more power, with the same sound quality... Which brings me to an important point: I built my system to be SQ (Sound Quality). It's not a system meant to just get loud.

The retail on HSK 165 is $499. You won't find it on E-bay for much lower except from Malaysia. I figured, I took up many hours of my local dealers time (not kidding, I did spend hours), and I appreciated the ability to hear these speakers side by side in a good atmosphere: I'll spend the coin. I did have one dealer offer me these for about $200 less, but again, I felt it wasn't right to not support my local dealer who was very patient and helpful. They knew I was only buying the speakers from them, and installing myself.

I initially ran these off the BA amp. It sounded a ton better than stock speakers, didn't really clip (I also had the center channel disconnected which helps a lot stock or upgraded speakers), and is worth your while. However, to really hear these speakers hit their stride, you'll need a good quality SP type amp.

These speakers are now powered by an "old school" Precision Power Industries (PPI) A (Art Series) 4200, which is 4 channels at 50 watts each. These amps are well known to be under rated. I did initially have it bridged to two channels, so they were getting 100 RMS each, until I realized it was mono. There really wasn't much sound difference, HOWEVER, I also have these crossed over really way too high. My "ear" says these are crossed over up above 500Hz (I bought a used Audio Control EQX and haven't popped the cover to see what it's dividing), and these are suggested by Hertz to go down to 250.

Here's the thread where I'm journaling my experiences... I need to update it.. I'll do it after lunch :D
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152383

SlyJester7 07-09-2011 05:39 PM

:w00t:

TAG UR IT 07-16-2011 02:03 AM

WOW!

Excellent info and that is really helpful.

I've been looking for some good speakers. I know it might differ from person to person. But, that's what I do....close my eyes and switch it around from speaker to speaker. So, I appreciate the input.

I really want to get the stock amp and speakers replaced and think that'll be my next deal to get done.

So...who offered them to you for $200 less??? :D :D :D

TAG UR IT 07-16-2011 11:06 AM

Looked on ebay. I found them from Singapore and Maylasia for anywhere between $80 to $180. Is there something I'm missing? You said you paid $300? Was that for all of them or just two?

chopper 07-27-2011 11:32 AM

What would I need to use to seal the subthump adapters and how and why would they need too seal them might be a dumb question but im a newbie to audio install

tbone587 07-27-2011 11:52 AM

Chopper,

You should either spray paint them black with a few coats, or seal them with resin.

JohnnyComeLately 07-27-2011 11:59 AM

Sorry, been sorta out of the loop due to a car pulling in front of my bike and other issues. I paid $450 for a single pair. I was offered by a dealer I'd rather not name $300 for a pair, but when I mention that price to Hertz dealers in San Diego, they get extremely angry. I don't want to burn my source here :D

I assume you mean sealing the subthump speaker adapters, and not the adapters for the amp electrical connections. The ST speaker adapters are particle board which you then attach with sheet metal, or less-than ideal sheetrock (drywall) screws to a metal surface. Two non-forming, hard objects, one of which is oscillating (making sound) at multiple freq's usually need something between to buffer and make the speakers "sound" better. It's also to provide a better performance, as any sound waves that come out of the back that are able to immediately come "around" the speaker to the front will cancel out. For an obvious example, turn on a heavy bass song with your sub in a box. Now take it out, and do the same. Obvious difference, but the principle is the same with sealing a mid-range driver. Tweeters are in a sealed enclosure usually, so this is why it's an issue mostly for the mid-drivers. Make sense? I sorta gave a long answer.

JohnnyComeLately 07-27-2011 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone587 (Post 3528690)
Chopper,

You should either spray paint them black with a few coats, or seal them with resin.

Are these being sealed for moisture reasons?

This is part of the reason I personally am not a fan of particle board anywhere moisture is close by. A sub box is ok, but door interiors see a ton of moisture. I think plastic adapters, although less than ideal from a rigidity-seal standpoint, are a better route and is why I stuck with the OEM adapters. In 50 years you'll pull my adapters out and they'll be the same. No matter what you do to particle board, there's decay eventually. Even pressure treated redwood breaks down eventually :D

Resin sounds like a good route, but at that point.... you've spent more time and effort than using the OEM or similar plastic adapter.

tbone587 07-27-2011 02:10 PM

Guys I found these scosche plastic adapters for 20 bucks.. I dont know if they look quite as deep as the factory baffle though, maybe someone knows..

http://www.scosche.com/car-audio/product/2028

JohnnyComeLately 07-27-2011 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone587 (Post 3529317)
Guys I found these scosche plastic adapters for 20 bucks.. I dont know if they look quite as deep as the factory baffle though, maybe someone knows..

http://www.scosche.com/car-audio/product/2028

Wow, good find. At $20, I would save my 30-45 minutes of hacking the OEMs and have just gotten those.

We have tons of mounting depth in our cars. The windows aren't behind it, and the frame within the door isn't that tall. So unless you're putting subs in your doors, I think 99% of the 6.5" mid drivers would be fine with those adapters. And even if you do need more, you can easily put a generic spacer between the driver and adapter for more depth.

JohnnyComeLately 07-27-2011 02:21 PM

For anyone needing rears, here they are:

http://www.scosche.com/car-audio/product/1177

I'm probably going to use those, however I think the Alpine R-type 17S components I'm planning on running in the back come with a 6x9 to 6.5" adapter.

tbone587 07-27-2011 02:49 PM

Johnny, just out of curiosity, why do you think the factory speaker adapters are so deep? I havenent taken my door off yet, but I assumed they were that deep due to clearance issues.

JohnnyComeLately 07-27-2011 02:57 PM

Good question. From the video and pics you should see that there's very little that protrudes beyond the adapter (relative to the depth of the speaker). You can also see the opening depth. The window at full roll down is still pretty high above the bottom of the door and not near the speakers. The only thing I can guess is possibly in case of water dripping from the window opening. With so little exposed, maybe it's engineered like that to keep it from dripping.

Hmmm... If someone used those Scosche's, I suggest putting them in, close the windows and then wash your car. Pull the speakers and check for water. Even if you do have water, just go get some inserts that go around your speaker and seal moisture out. They're made of closed-cell foam and you can squash them by hand.

Again, I'm 100% guessing. I know on Hondas and older GMs that come to my mind, the speaker adapters had downward facing openings. So anything dripping from above wouldn't make it's way towards the speaker assembly.

Another reason I'm speculating this is that I had washed my car (the '10 Camaro) before one of my door speaker installation sessions and there was moisture on the outside of the moisture barrier in the door.

Tysen 09-17-2011 07:27 PM

Good info, thanks for posting this. It will really help me out tomorrow when I do my install.

JohnnyComeLately 09-18-2011 04:39 PM

Let me know how it goes and if I should add anything to the video.

Agent WD-40 11-26-2011 01:54 PM

How did you attach the crossovers inside of the door cover? I couldn't really tell how they were attached but I'm assuming you just didn't lay them there.

What wire did you use to connect to the corssover? Just the one that was attached to the factory 6.5" speaker in the door? Did you do anything with the wire that ran up to the factory tweeter?

JohnnyComeLately 11-26-2011 11:14 PM

Yeah, I am a bit ashamed to say I did just lay it in there. The insulation and its connection to the door panel were (are so far) strong enough to keep it in place. I also have not had any rattles. If I were to re-do it in the future for any reason (e.g. I see the insulation starting to give, I hear rattles, etc), the way I would attach it is industrial velcro. I've held 10 pound electronics in place inside electrical panels, garage door opener on my sportbike, and a ton of other stuff that is rock solid with that stuff. You can go to Home Depot and get it in the hardware department. The panel is flat, so I'd probably stick a 3" wide, but 4" long piece on the door, and then on the bottom, obviously, of the crossover.

I just left the factory wire for the tweeter in place. It seemed to be just fine and not too practical to remove. I attached it to the other wiring nearby to reduce any liklihood of hearing it rattle, or having it possibly migrate to an undesired location. I used a wire tie to secure it.

The wiring itself, I snipped the wire coming into the mid-driver, soldered some 16/2 wire onto it. Ran that over to the crossover. Then, ran 16/2 back through the door (using the channel already there on the inside of the door panel) up to the tweeter pod. The other 16/2 runs back into the door (taped to the input 16/2) for connection to the Hertz mid-driver.

Agent WD-40 11-28-2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyComeLately (Post 4082170)
Yeah, I am a bit ashamed to say I did just lay it in there. The insulation and its connection to the door panel were (are so far) strong enough to keep it in place. I also have not had any rattles. If I were to re-do it in the future for any reason (e.g. I see the insulation starting to give, I hear rattles, etc), the way I would attach it is industrial velcro. I've held 10 pound electronics in place inside electrical panels, garage door opener on my sportbike, and a ton of other stuff that is rock solid with that stuff. You can go to Home Depot and get it in the hardware department. The panel is flat, so I'd probably stick a 3" wide, but 4" long piece on the door, and then on the bottom, obviously, of the crossover.

I just left the factory wire for the tweeter in place. It seemed to be just fine and not too practical to remove. I attached it to the other wiring nearby to reduce any liklihood of hearing it rattle, or having it possibly migrate to an undesired location. I used a wire tie to secure it.

The wiring itself, I snipped the wire coming into the mid-driver, soldered some 16/2 wire onto it. Ran that over to the crossover. Then, ran 16/2 back through the door (using the channel already there on the inside of the door panel) up to the tweeter pod. The other 16/2 runs back into the door (taped to the input 16/2) for connection to the Hertz mid-driver.

Thanks for the tip on the Industrial Velcro. I grabbed some at Home Depot and it definitely did the trick. Thanks for the tip on how to mount the tweeters in the stock tweeter pod. That also worked out very well!

jeepguy_1980 11-30-2011 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT (Post 3477496)
Looked on ebay. I found them from Singapore and Maylasia for anywhere between $80 to $180. Is there something I'm missing? You said you paid $300? Was that for all of them or just two?

I too am curious. Does anyone know if they are real or not?

Agent WD-40 11-30-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980 (Post 4098168)
I too am curious. Does anyone know if they are real or not?

It seems too good to be true, so it probably is. The speakers are made in Italy which isn't the cheapest cost country to produce in. The dollar to euro conversion isn't that skewed right now so it isn't likely some currency advantage driving those prices either. It probably is some sort of knock off speaker or somebody is taking a loss on them.

jeepguy_1980 11-30-2011 12:18 PM

They're fake

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-bulgaria.html

http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/boa...-165-tweeters/

I've read several forums discussing these. The boxes even have typos on them.

TAG UR IT 11-30-2011 01:04 PM

Yeah....I wouldn't buy anything from singapore...maylasia....yadda yadda.

Support your good old USA dealers, get a speaker you KNOW is good for the dollar you spend, know you are giong to get a warranty that your shop will uphold, and you won't have to worry about getting the cheapy knock off crap that's probably going to break in 6 months. Looking for the cheapest solution, i found that. Nope...after a few thinking it over, notgonnahappen.com

jeepguy_1980 11-30-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT (Post 4098704)
Yeah....I wouldn't buy anything from singapore...maylasia....yadda yadda.

Support your good old USA dealers, get a speaker you KNOW is good for the dollar you spend, know you are giong to get a warranty that your shop will uphold, and you won't have to worry about getting the cheapy knock off crap that's probably going to break in 6 months. Looking for the cheapest solution, i found that. Nope...after a few thinking it over, notgonnahappen.com

I move frequently, and prefer online retailers for warranty purposes. Though, I believe that most electronics will last for the long run, if they make it past their first 90 days.


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