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-   -   Out with Energy Suspension Ė In with Pedders (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156892)

caverman 07-06-2011 12:07 AM

Out with Energy Suspension Ė In with Pedders
 
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First off I’m going to say that this thread is made from my opinion and personal experience. You may or may not agree or have had the same issues. This is not going to be about Mfg bashing but is designe to show the difference between the two designs and feel of the bushings.

Some of you might have seen my post with the issues I had installing my Energy Suspension cradle inserts but in case you didn’t you can go to post #114 on this thread. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=134107&page=5

After dealing with my install I started looking at the differences in the design of the ES inserts vs Pedders inserts and the way the front inserts are done is completely different between the two brands. Even though I could feel a difference in how the ES inserts firmed up my car I just couldn’t get past the design (or install for that matter).

I ended up talking with both Rob @ Wretched Motorsports and Justice Pete (both are great guys and talked with me after hours). I ended up buying the Stage 1 Street kit from Rob which includes the Radius Rod inserts and Cradle inserts. I’ll say right off the bat I really like the Pedders inserts. They are a much higher quality and better design IMO. They are more money but in this case they are worth it. I’m not one so spend extra money where it’s not needed but it is in the case of the different cradle inserts.

The front cradle bushing insert is really where the difference is. The rear inserts are very similar, even in feel, but the Pedders still seem a little stiffer. If you look at the way the ES inserts (and BMR are the same design) are designed they just fill the inside of the bushing. There is nothing that goes on top between the frame and cradle. In addition it’s nearly impossible to get them flush with the cradle. That means that the insert with fold over which it’s not designed to do. I didn’t like this at all personally.

Even if you look at the way the Mfg has them installed (well….I couldn’t find a pic of the ES inserts so I’m going based on the BMR inserts) they are supposed to be flush with the cradle. I’ve seen some pics posted by another member that does performance work and even his are sticking up a little. If you look at the pic where I dropped the cradle in order to replace them with Pedders you can see the little bit that is still sticking up. You can only imagine that when that’s bolted up to the frame it’s going to fold over.

The black ones are the ES/BMR design. The red ones are Pedders.

BTW: in case anyone wanted to see the install on the Radius Rod inserts http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156879

caverman 07-06-2011 12:07 AM

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Out with the Energy Suspension inserts.

You can also see they rip fairly easy if you don't get them in perfectly straight and have to try to pull them out again.

caverman 07-06-2011 12:07 AM

9 Attachment(s)
You can really see the difference in the firmness of the insert, especially with the front inserts. The rears were fairly similar between the two Mfgs.

caverman 07-06-2011 12:08 AM

7 Attachment(s)
In with Pedders.

The front insert is 100x easier to install. They are super easyÖ.only takes seconds to put them on once the retaining washer is removed. That was easy as well using the two hammer method. At least thatís what worked for meÖ..about 4 good blows of the hammer and they popped right off.

The only PITA I had to contend with was getting the top rear insert to go in under the alignment pin. I ended up doing both front inserts first and then moved on to the rear. I lowered the cradle as much as I could with the front bolts still in by a few threads. There still wasnít enough room so I had to use a pry bar to get it down enough to push the insert under the alignment pin. Once under the pin you can then push it up and rotate it freely to get it to the right spot. I happened to be working alone this time so it was difficult using all my weight with one arm to pry down and then using my other hand to push the insert under the pin. One went in after about two trys. The other one took a lot more effort and a little extra cussing. This is definitely where a second set of hands will really come in handy.

I ended up getting the cradle slightly off alignment with the pins. It took me a little bit to figure out that had happened. It was easily fixed by using the pry bar to pry it over in the direction needed. Then the whole cradle popped into place and bolts went right back in.

I just installed them the other day and have only put maybe 15 miles on the car since then so I canít give you a full review on how much they helped. I hope to get back out to the drag strip sometime this month and Iíll have a better idea then. I will say that it wasnít day and night difference because I already had the ES inserts in so the body already felt firm just from those. Iím sure the Pedders are going to help more based on just how much more rigid their insert was over the ES inserts. The front insert also has a lot more contact area with the body of the car over the design of the ES or BMR inserts.

Jaysin 07-06-2011 06:29 AM

Wise choice my friend! Nice install pics. :thumbup:

camaro4mybday 07-06-2011 07:03 AM

Welcome to the wonderful world of pedders!

bmbbl be 07-06-2011 07:55 AM

now that is a great write up !!! good job on the install. backstreet performance did mine about 3 weeks ago. your right those backs one are PITA...they had to take the exhaust off to get the diff...low enough to do the rear ones

toilets 07-06-2011 08:16 AM

Nice Caverman, and great write up!! I actually got the full bushings for the cradle (Pedders) as well.
Not trying to hack or change the subject but how do you like your chassis brace? Did you notice any difference?

caverman 07-06-2011 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toilets (Post 3428882)
Not trying to hack or change the subject but how do you like your chassis brace? Did you notice any difference?

I like it. I think I felt the difference more from the cradle inserts than I did from the chassis brace but I would still add the chassis brace personally. I like the whole concept of how it ties the cradle to the frame.

I guess the best thing for me would be to remove it and try just the cradle inserts at the track but I don't want to remove it. :D

Now, if I had the inserts or full bushings and didn't have the sway bars I would say do those first but I think they are all going to work together well (inserts, sways, and chasiss brace).

The true test will come over the next month or so. I plan to get back out to the drag strip hopefully this month and then in Sept I'll do another AutoX event.

toilets 07-06-2011 09:22 AM

Cool thank you. I really like the one you got, just wish it was in red to match all the red pedders things I have :) . BMR has a red subframe brace so i may get theirs. yeah, I got the Pedders springs and tie rod bushings as well and awaiting to get them on the car. Then sways then the brace... I got an event this weekend but cant get these on the car until next week.

JusticePete 07-06-2011 10:25 AM

Caverman,

I thought your other post on the radius bush inserts was very well done. This one is as good or better. Very well done sir!

Please allow me to thank you for choosing Wretched Motorsports and Pedders for your 5th Gen. We appreciate your business. Welcome to the Pedders Nation!

caverman 07-06-2011 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 3429373)
Caverman,

I thought your other post on the radius bush inserts was very well done. This one is as good or better. Very well done sir!

Please allow me to thank you for choosing Wretched Motorsports and Pedders for your 5th Gen. We appreciate your business. Welcome to the Pedders Nation!

:word:

Thank you for all you do. I really appreciated how you an Rob took the time to answer my questions and to work with me....even after hours and during a trying time in your life.

Keep up the good work! :drinking:

HaddadMotorsports 07-06-2011 04:33 PM

Nice write up and congrats.

caverman 07-09-2011 10:16 AM

bump for a memeber

ayceman 07-09-2011 09:04 PM

Great write up one of the best I have ever seen, let me say that due to price I was going to go with Energy Suspension, even with your first post where you stated having issues. But after seeing this and how Pedders is more firm I will be going with them in the near future, your post has sold me on these.

caverman 07-09-2011 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayceman (Post 3445138)
Great write up one of the best I have ever seen, let me say that due to price I was going to go with Energy Suspension, even with your first post where you stated having issues. But after seeing this and how Pedders is more firm I will be going with them in the near future, your post has sold me on these.

:word:

Price is why I went with ES originally as well but in this case it's worth spending the extra money for Pedders IMO. Get the Stage 1 Street kit so you can do the radius rod inserts as well. That will save you a little money and it's a great addition to the car. You won't be disappointed.

DMSDesign 07-10-2011 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caverman (Post 3445490)
:word:

Price is why I went with ES originally as well but in this case it's worth spending the extra money for Pedders IMO. Get the Stage 1 Street kit so you can do the radius rod inserts as well. That will save you a little money and it's a great addition to the car. You won't be disappointed.

With respect to suspension, your experience definately shows that you do get what you pay for

mike
dms

PQ 07-10-2011 01:09 AM

Crap. I missed this.

Now you see how easy it was for us that did the Pedders stuff. I had a problem with the rear alignment pins too. Had to put sockets under the front cradle mounts to lift the rear in a level manner.

Well done. Hope you enjoy it.

Bruce@raymondsperformance 07-10-2011 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMSDesign (Post 3445953)
With respect to suspension, your experience definately shows that you do get what you pay for

mike
dms

+1

JusticePete 07-11-2011 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PQ (Post 3446001)
Crap. I missed this.

Now you see how easy it was for us that did the Pedders stuff. I had a problem with the rear alignment pins too. Had to put sockets under the front cradle mounts to lift the rear in a level manner.

Well done. Hope you enjoy it.

Those rear alignment pins can bind metal to metal. They fit inside the OE bush ferule and not directly into the bush material. That means you can lube it a little bit. A smear of Pedders molybdenum lube or just a squirt of WD-40 works wonders. Just a bit allows it to slip into place.

JusticePete 07-19-2011 12:33 PM

caverman,

It has been a few weeks since your install. Has your opinion or experience changed in any way?

PQ 07-19-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 3451417)
Those rear alignment pins can bind metal to metal. They fit inside the OE bush ferule and not directly into the bush material. That means you can lube it a little bit. A smear of Pedders molybdenum lube or just a squirt of WD-40 works wonders. Just a bit allows it to slip into place.

Well, I got carried away and lubed the CRAP out of ALL of them. :laugh: THEN found out I maybe shouldn't have. :rolleyes:

caverman 07-19-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 3491014)
caverman,

It has been a few weeks since your install. Has your opinion or experience changed in any way?

Nope...opinion is still the same. They are working out great. Ride is nice and firm and I would definatley recommend Pedders over the other brand/style.

I still haven't had a chance to make it to the track and really put them to the true test. It's been extremely hot around hear lately. Last week I had to pick up my Yukon from the paint shop and in the driveway the temp guage was showing 108. Not sure if that was completley accurate but it sure has felt every bit that hot lately.

JusticePete 07-22-2011 10:16 AM

Caverman, thank you for the update.

JusticePete 07-29-2011 11:41 AM

Bump for Blacktip.


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