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-   -   ls1 or ls6 block? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1806)

chowder 10-15-2007 11:17 PM

ls1 or ls6 block?
 
Ive been told that in 2001 that Gm placed ls6 blocks in certain f bodies rather than ls1. How do i find out whether or not that i have an ls1 or an ls6 block in my '01 z28?:thumbup:

Dave McFly 10-16-2007 01:16 AM

I heard it was the opposite, and it was the different heads were used. I am PRETTY sure that the LS1 and LS6 share the same block and displacement. maybe one of the forumers here can shed more light on this interesting question ;).

TAG UR IT 10-16-2007 02:02 AM

It is my understanding that it was the 02 models only and they were done half way through the model year. It, if I remember correctly, is still an LS1 block, but w/ LS6 heads. And, I do recall that the way to find out is that the back of the engine head is stamped w/ "LS6." I almost certain it is behind the block on the drivers side. You have to use some good lighting and a mirror to see back there.

I'm sure on the location...99.99% sure on the model year, etc. But, take a look back there and see what you come up with!

Rock36 10-16-2007 02:12 AM

I'll throw some more confusion into the mix.

I thought it was the LS6 intake manifold that was placed in some of the late 4th gen engines.

But I am 90% sure the LS1 and LS6 are the same 5.7L block with the same bore and stroke.

TAG UR IT 10-16-2007 03:07 AM

I'll add to that...

The 01 model year got the LS6 intake to add another 5 hp over the year before.

Quote:

Beginning in 2001, the LS1 received the higher-flowing intake (from the LS6), and a smaller camshaft to keep power at the same level; this also allowed GM to remove the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system (Camaro/Firebird only; 97-00 Corvette LS1 never used an EGR system). The block is very similar to that of the higher-output LS6; beginning in 2002, some LS1 engines were actually built using the LS6 block instead. The LS1 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 1998.
It's from wikepedia..take it for what you believe. But, I am certain (in my mind) that it was only the last of the 02's that had the LS1 blocks w/ LS6 heads.

Mr. Wyndham 10-16-2007 07:45 AM

VIN number? just throwing it in there. Unless this was an off-the-record thing, Wouldn't your Vin # tell you all? :rolleyes:

TAG UR IT 10-16-2007 10:25 AM

Don't think so. Think the VIN just shows "LS1" designation. Then again, I could be wrong. I do remember reading about this whole deal in either Car Craft, Chevy Hi-Performance, or GMHTP. They had a picture of the LS6 stamp on the back of the engine head. It was a loooooooong time ago. But, yeah...01's forward got the LS6 intake. And something like the last half of 02's got the LS6 heads.

Mr. Wyndham 10-16-2007 10:29 AM

Which would exlplain:rollyes:...why the F-bodys (SS) were slightly more powerful/faster than the Corvette of that time(not the Z06)...interesting.

I thought that was completely due to underrating...cool :thumbsup:

TAG UR IT 10-16-2007 10:44 AM

What ticks me off is that a stock SS could have actually been a SS by GM not putting in a smaller camshaft to keep the hp leves down and away from the vette. They could have left it alone making the SS hp #'s 50hp or so more than a stock Z28. Serioulsy, all I had to do to make my Z28 #'s match my SS were to replace the air intake and toss in a cold air kit. Heck...just putting in the SLP lid made a HUGE differece.

Mr. Wyndham 10-16-2007 11:36 AM

:iono:
That was the "package". :thumbdown: Hopefully we shan't see that again.

TAG UR IT 10-16-2007 12:21 PM

Actually, the ram air hood is what GM claimed to be giving the SS the extra hp over the Z28. Because there was no other engine changes between the two.

Ran a 12.88 in my SS
Ran a 12.74 in my Z28

Only difference...Loudmouth exhaust on my Z28 vs. the SLP Dual/dual exhaust on my SS. The weather conditions were the same, the track conditions the same, and it was even at the same track. The Z28 was consistently running quicker times....I don't know...weird.

But, all I'm saying is that they should have left the same cam in the SS instead of using a smaller one for the production SS.

Rock36 10-17-2007 07:10 AM

Okay this is off topic but....

What exactly is a Lid? Someone told me it was just a CAI for the F-bodies, but I see that you also have a CAI listed.

Those times were both on street tires right? I think I asked that before, but I can't remember.

TAG UR IT 10-17-2007 01:20 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock36 (Post 27111)
Okay this is off topic but....

What exactly is a Lid? Someone told me it was just a CAI for the F-bodies, but I see that you also have a CAI listed.

Those times were both on street tires right? I think I asked that before, but I can't remember.

CAI is a cold air intake that can come in on one of two places (normally). The first is through the OEM SS hood. It pushes the cold air into the SLP lid under the front lip of the lid. There's a small slit under the front about 3/4 of an inch in height and is the length of the lid.

Then, the other method for cold air intake is to add a CAI under the air filter in front of the radiator. You cut holes under your air filter in the black plastic. If anyone is interested in this, I can find the mod write up on it and post it.

The SLP lid is simply a lid that covers the air filter. The stock air intake is huge and has two air resivoirs that don't allow for a quick, fluid, air flow. The stock peice also has multiple plastic ridges inside the lid which further prevents free air flow. The SLP lid is smooth on its underside...and doens't have the resivoirs.

Here's the pix I just took. Yes, it's dirty as all heck under the hood. It's getting cleaned ASAP for the car show. But, for now...you can see the SLP lid (has big SLP letters on top) which directs airflow into the Mass Air Flow sensor, through the smooth bellows, and on into the engine, etc...

TFord 02-27-2008 11:11 AM

Yes from 2002+ GM had LS6 vice LS1 blocks, they also had the LS6 intake manifold with them also.

so heres how to tell. the LS1 manifold isnt flat on its bottom side and has an "X" pattern on the plastic. the LS6 manifold is flat on its bottom and has a SQUARE pattern on the plastic. Im at work so I dont have picks but if you need me to clarify further let me know

sickboy 03-01-2008 01:29 PM

There's some misinformation in this thread here... and I'm a stickler for details so:
Yes some of the later Fbods got the LS6 block, but there's no real advantage of having it since everything else (except LS6 intake) was still LS1 spec. Ls6's had different heads and cam at the very least. There are only minor differences in the LS1 block vs the LS6 block (see http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213148). No Fbody ever got LS6 heads.
LS6 heads are 243 castings and have different valves/springs than the 241 castings of the Fbody's --> Earlier Fbods got 853 or 806 casting heads. The LS6 heads had special springs/valves allow them to safely rev higher. Incidentally LS-2's also got the 243 casting heads but with different valves.

SilverTurtle 03-01-2008 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickboy (Post 48565)
There's some misinformation in this thread here... and I'm a stickler for details so:
Yes some of the later Fbods got the LS6 block, but there's no real advantage of having it since everything else (except LS6 intake) was still LS1 spec. Ls6's had different heads and cam at the very least. There are only minor differences in the LS1 block vs the LS6 block (see http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213148). No Fbody ever got LS6 heads.
LS6 heads are 243 castings and have different valves/springs than the 241 castings of the Fbody's --> Earlier Fbods got 853 or 806 casting heads. The LS6 heads had special springs/valves allow them to safely rev higher. Incidentally LS-2's also got the 243 casting heads but with different valves.

almost completely correct.

the LS1 vs. LS6 block is a debate that will live forever, but here are the facts:

1. the LS6 block has vents at the bottom of the cylinders to allow for better backpressure dissipation... the LS1 block did not have this.

2. the LS6 blocks that wound up in the f-bodies were made from the denser casting, and therefore were more prone to tolerate nitrous... the LS1 blocks were almost equally tolerant of nitrous, but were made from a less dense product run.

3. the way to tell if your block is an LS6 block is to look at the casting number at the top, back of the block and on the driver's side... the LS6 casting number is 12561168... anything else is the LS1 casting number.

4. LS6 heads were only available on f-bodies through aftermarket companies like GMMG built cars.

5. LS6 block f-bodies tend to have a better time at high RPMs than LS1 block engines do... we have one of each in a 2001 and 2002 Z28... I've driven both when they were stock and there really is a difference.


dont believe everything you read on LS1Tech... a site with that many people is bound to have a bunch of trolls on it that post stuff that they've heard to be true and then it spreads like wildfire.

oh, and there is rumor that the cylinder vents were added to the LS1 casting during the 2001 model run... having never seen one of these engines with one, and having seen several 2002 LS1 engines without them, I cannot confirm or deny this rumor... but this was originally stated by a GM employee who should know the facts... my only guess is that the LS1s that I ran across in 2002 cars were leftover blocks that wound up in the 2002 model cars... and probably have an incorrect date stamp to match up to the 2002 f-body.

TAG UR IT 03-02-2008 12:47 AM

Hmmm...ok. I could have sworn that it was just the heads and not the block. There was a pic in the mag of a guy holding a mirror behind the engine and it showed LS6 on the back of the head. But, hey...could have also been a bad picture. That could have actually been a pic of just that...an engine head w/ LS6???...and should have been a pic of the block w/ that^serial #.

I tried looking on the back of my block a while back and couldn't see any #'s. I'm going to have to take another look as I'm pretty darn curious. Thanks for the corrections. I know what I quoted in Wiki said the block, but I was certain is was the heads. Oh well...

TFord 03-03-2008 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle (Post 48580)
almost completely correct.

the LS1 vs. LS6 block is a debate that will live forever, but here are the facts:

1. the LS6 block has vents at the bottom of the cylinders to allow for better backpressure dissipation... the LS1 block did not have this.

2. the LS6 blocks that wound up in the f-bodies were made from the denser casting, and therefore were more prone to tolerate nitrous... the LS1 blocks were almost equally tolerant of nitrous, but were made from a less dense product run.

3. the way to tell if your block is an LS6 block is to look at the casting number at the top, back of the block and on the driver's side... the LS6 casting number is 12561168... anything else is the LS1 casting number.

4. LS6 heads were only available on f-bodies through aftermarket companies like GMMG built cars.

5. LS6 block f-bodies tend to have a better time at high RPMs than LS1 block engines do... we have one of each in a 2001 and 2002 Z28... I've driven both when they were stock and there really is a difference.


dont believe everything you read on LS1Tech... a site with that many people is bound to have a bunch of trolls on it that post stuff that they've heard to be true and then it spreads like wildfire.

oh, and there is rumor that the cylinder vents were added to the LS1 casting during the 2001 model run... having never seen one of these engines with one, and having seen several 2002 LS1 engines without them, I cannot confirm or deny this rumor... but this was originally stated by a GM employee who should know the facts... my only guess is that the LS1s that I ran across in 2002 cars were leftover blocks that wound up in the 2002 model cars... and probably have an incorrect date stamp to match up to the 2002 f-body.

^^^^^^^Theres a guy that knows his engines. But since everyone is getting so technical....the one thing that you forgot is

the ls6 aluminum blocks are more desirable because they are designed to handle high rpm, big hp situations. for the most part they are identical to the 01 and later LS1 blocks. LS1 blocks have a hole machined through the main webs to improve bay to bay crankcase breathing the hole cures the bay to bay oil vapor pumping issues. LS6 blocks are an improvement on that fix, so they are most desireable. they come with an open oil passage area designed in the block

radz28 03-05-2008 10:41 AM

While I agree with most of this, I've read that later LS1 blocks are more desireable on the whole because the larger windows cast into the bulkheads were considered by engine builders to be a little weaker. They aided in high RPM breathing and lowered pumping losses, however the block is produced differently than the LS1 block and I believe the aluminum is a little different too.

SilverTurtle 03-05-2008 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz282003 (Post 49457)
While I agree with most of this, I've read that later LS1 blocks are more desireable on the whole because the larger windows cast into the bulkheads were considered by engine builders to be a little weaker. They aided in high RPM breathing and lowered pumping losses, however the block is produced differently than the LS1 block and I believe the aluminum is a little different too.

the difference is in the density of the aluminum... the LS6 blocks are denser than the LS1 blocks... as you mentioned, this was done to counteract the fact that the larger windows were in the LS6 blocks... by increasing the density of the block, they were able to maintain the same, and sometimes better, durability... hence what I said about the LS6 blocks being more tolerant to spray.

the way it was told to me was: "if you're going to go big cube, use the LS1 block... if you're going to go spray or power adder, go with the LS6 block"


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