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rs-lt-camaro- 12-10-2011 05:27 PM

the best muscle there ever will be
 
An article i found that I thought I would share.

references :http://www.torquenews.com/106/2012-c...e-ever-will-be


American muscle cars have historically gotten very little respect outside of the drag racing world but over the past few years there have been tremendous efforts to build better-handling muscle cars with the result of over 50 years of automotive technology being the 2012 Camaro ZL1. During the dawn of the American muscle car in the 1960s; being the best muscle car was simple…you just had to have the most horsepower. In some cases, there were muscle cars that offered impressive handling such as the 1970 Mustang Boss 302 or the 1970 Dodge Challenger T/A but those models focused less on power than they do on handling. The Camaro ZL1 focused on offering enough power to go head to head with just about any car on American roads but while it has less horsepower than the new Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, the ZL1 has features that should allow it to beat the GT500 (or any other American muscle car) on a track with turns. Also, unlike some stripped out track packages that are devoid of luxury items like high quality stereo systems, comfortable seats, back seats and air conditioning – the Camaro ZL1 offers that all so the incredible performance of the ZL1 doesn’t require the owner to sacrifice comfort meaning this is a car that can easily be a daily driver.
The 2012 Camaro ZL1 is powered by a supercharged 6.2L V8 packing 580 horsepower and 556lb-ft of torque with so it is still a very formidable opponent in a straight line but the suspension and braking system of the ZL1 have been designed to also make this one of the best handling cars of all time…which is what makes the ZL1 so special. This setup allowed the 2012 Camaro ZL1 to lap the famed Nürburgring in Germany in a shockingly fast 7:41.27 – making it the fastest American muscle car ever to lap “the ‘Ring” and with a time of 7 minutes and 41 seconds, the ZL1 is rivaling high priced European exotics on one of the world’s most challenging road courses. The key is the Selective Magnetic Ride Control system that first debuted on the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 before being offered on the Corvette Z06 and the various Cadillac CTS-V models. GM’s Magnetic Ride Control system is among the most advanced suspension systems offered on any car in the world and while the Ford Shelby GT500 and the Dodge Challenger SRT8 come with their own adaptive handling systems – neither compare to the technology of the Selective Magnetic Ride Control system of the 2012 Camaro ZL1.
The question is…how does another American muscle car step up and beat the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1? The 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 is powered by a 650 horsepower 5.8L supercharged V8 so the SVT-built Mustang could have an edge in straight-line performance over the ZL1 but when it comes to overall performance the numbers do not lie and with a Nürburgring time of 7:41 – the ZL1 is unrivaled as the ultimate muscle car. General Motors has fitted the ZL1 with a supercharged V8, a premium Brembo braking system and a suspension setup that is more familiar to supercar owners than those who drive muscle cars. The Mustang GT500 has the big(ger) power from a supercharged V8 and the advanced braking system but should Ford and the folks from their Special Vehicle Team (SVT) come up with a similar adjustable handling system, it will still only be playing catch-up with the ZL1.
Realistically, the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 could be presenting the American automotive enthusiast with the vehicle that could serve as “the end of the line” for the muscle car. No, this doesn’t mean that time is running thin for the mighty muscle car segment but it seems as though the Camaro ZL1 offers the best of everything and from here on out, the ZL1 could be the car with which all other muscle cars are compared. Future muscle cars could have more horsepower and torque but at some point, the title of muscle car could just melt into the realm of the supercar as output creeps higher and higher. New technology in braking systems and components will surely come out to offer improved braking capacities but realistically, the stopping abilities of a muscle car can only be improved so much from what the ZL1 can do in terms of stopping force. Finally, the advanced electronic suspension system found in the Camaro ZL1 could be improved upon but again, the gains from future versions of this (or similar) systems will be nominal. The only real areas where the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 could truly be improved upon in a manner that makes a big difference is in the chassis/exterior design, where new lightweight components could lower the curb weight and improve the overall performance. However, as you continue to implement new materials and drop the weight, you are once again moving away from the traditional American muscle car and closer to the supercar world. There is also the possible addition of all wheel drive, which would certainly enhance the performance capabilities on every level but American muscle car purists would surely insist that an AWD vehicle is simply not a muscle car. Also, features like all wheel drive and advanced lightweight materials would likely drive the price of the muscle car in question too near the six figure price tag of the modern supercar.
Based on this writer’s assessment, the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 could very well present us with a look at the car that will go into the automotive history books as being the greatest muscle car there will ever be. Going forward, competitors like the Ford Shelby GT500 could offer new features and bigger power to knock the ZL1 from the top of the muscle car food chain but it is possible that the 2012 Camaro ZL1 has set the standard by which all other American muscle cars will forever be compared.
General Motors has introduced the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 that appears to be the greatest muscle car of all times and it is the job of the high performance engineers at Ford Motor Company and the Chrysler Group to best the ZL1 – a job that won’t be easy and frankly, may not be possible.
:thumbup:

Rice Killer 12-10-2011 05:34 PM

Nice read. Thanks for posting.

Will it be the fastest Muscle Car ever built, probably not.

Will it be the best Muscle Car ever built, Heck Yeah! :thumbsup:

fredzl1 12-10-2011 05:43 PM

I messaged fbodfather this when i ordered.i am lucky i have had 70 chevelle big block and 69/73 camaros. They all lacked breaking and stability. They are still 2-3 sec slower than zl1. Greatest middle class car ever. The end.

Fredzl1

KaotiK 12-10-2011 09:04 PM

love it! thanks for posting! Reading this makes me impatient for my ZL1... come on spring! :chevy:

OldJedi 12-10-2011 11:18 PM

With all of the technology that is built into the ZL1, at a price of $55,000, it will be a very hard car to beat as an overall complete package. Some might have more horsepower or quicker 1/4 mile times but as a complete overall daily driving package, only the CTS-V can compete and it is $10,000 more.

Scarrzz 12-11-2011 03:27 AM

.

Make this poll the kind where you can see who voted for what and hand me a hammer.

Muscle car category? Only the original COPOs were as outstanding -for their day, and they were made of ZL1. The tech we have now makes this car do things other "muscle cars" only pretended to do, and it's drivable off the track too.

That is all.

Z4me 12-11-2011 09:10 AM

Reading this article and buying the first year run of the ZL1, i'm feeling like I'll own part of some great GM muscle car history. :headbang:

Thx for posting can't wait till next year.

htron50 12-11-2011 09:28 AM

That's the point.... you are LIVING a Legend. You are DRIVING a Legend. You will OWN a Legend. You will have the JOY of SHARING the Legend and the responsibility for PAYING it FORWARD.

This is like having a fortune ball, predicting the future, and then watching it unfold in real time in YOUR HANDS. OMG!

Edit: PRODUCTION MUSCLE car should have been in poll.

10forty2 12-11-2011 09:39 AM

ZL1 is and will be one of the most awesome cars ever made...... but according to the rule of the Old West....there's always somebody faster and better!

Beck 12-11-2011 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10forty2 (Post 4148688)
ZL1 is and will be one of the most awesome cars ever made...... but according to the rule of the Old West....there's always somebody faster and better!

I agree. Refinements and improvements are not going to stop simply because the ZL1 has arrived and the competition isn't just going to bow down and let the ZL1 be king of the hill without a fight.

htron50 12-11-2011 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck (Post 4148744)
I agree. Refinements and improvements are not going to stop simply because the ZL1 has arrived and the competition isn't just going to bow down and let the ZL1 be king of the hill without a fight.

Agree also, but the ZL1 will be an icon. It will not be just another IROC. Not to impart any negatives on IROC. So, please don't dwell on that.

Beck 12-11-2011 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htron50 (Post 4148803)
but the ZL1 will be an icon.

And it's going to be straight up bad ass.

busabruce 12-11-2011 11:29 AM

I can't wait until the ZL1 vs GT500 articles come out. I'm pretty sure the Ford will beat the ZL1 in a straight line but I wanna see how it does on the road course. We are lucky to live in these times!

Then the SRT8 Challenger might come out with a supercharger......that will be another vs article in itself.

Scarrzz 12-11-2011 12:31 PM

.

King of the Production Muscle Car hill is the title.

Not fastest car ever, not most powerful car ever.

Different people weigh different aspects from track times to horsepower to aesthetics to pricing differently, but all considered as far as I'm concerned, we have a winner.

lbls1 12-11-2011 04:24 PM

If I may.....

This statement by the OP puts us at a bit of a dilemma. The camaro's origin was based on a 2x2 compact that was labeled as a pony car. The original term of "Muscle Car" was defined as an intermediate sized car with a large displacement engine. The subject GM cars (GTO, Chevelle SS396 & 454, Cutlass 442, Skylark GS, GSX; and later iterations of Buick GN, Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix, and to be literal, the later day Grand Prix GTP, Lumina Z34, Cutlass Supreme International Series, Regal GS; and the last GM forbearers which include the Grand Prix GTP(?) and Monte Carlo SS fwd) were all larger than the camaro. So after all of that hot air, the camaro's concept doesn't fit the true definition of a muscle car.

On the other hand, if you don't count Chrysler's Charger 4-door sedan, with the absence of the intermediate class and the increased size of the current camaro, one could argue that the fifth gen is the size of the former muscle car class, and could possibly fit into this description.

So the dilemma is: Do you hold the camaro to its true origin as a pony car, or re-define it (due to its increased size) as a midsized muscle car??


Interesting......

htron50 12-11-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbls1 (Post 4149943)
If I may.....

This statement by the OP puts us at a bit of a dilemma. The camaro's origin was based on a 2x2 compact that was labeled as a pony car. The original term of "Muscle Car" was defined as an intermediate sized car with a large displacement engine. The subject GM cars (GTO, Chevelle SS396 & 454, Cutlass 442, Skylark GS, GSX; and later iterations of Buick GN, Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix, and to be literal, the later day Grand Prix GTP, Lumina Z34, Cutlass Supreme International Series, Regal GS; and the last GM forbearers which include the Grand Prix GTP(?) and Monte Carlo SS fwd) were all larger than the camaro. So after all of that hot air, the camaro's concept doesn't fit the true definition of a muscle car.

On the other hand, if you don't count Chrysler's Charger 4-door sedan, with the absence of the intermediate class and the increased size of the current camaro, one could argue that the fifth gen is the size of the former muscle car class, and could possibly fit into this description.

So the dilemma is: Do you hold the camaro to its true origin as a pony car, or re-define it (due to its increased size) as a midsized muscle car??


Interesting......

You have a perspective, which I can see. I would, however, submit to you that the Pony Cars with big horsepower (i.e., Z28, 396/375 Camaro, 396/375 Nova, etc) are still subsets of the Muscle Car Category. No doubt about it. You wouldn't call the Yenko or COPO Camaro a Muscle Car based on the "class" you define. And Yenko made Chevelles too. All the "line extensions" with big power are "Muscle Cars"..... And, yes 340 Six Packs were considered Muscle Cars (be it not so big a muscle LOL) So Muscle Cars of the era were not exclusive to the body style, more based on the factory intentions of the motor installed. (YA HEARD!)... thanks OldScool, I borrowed it from ya!

Shurenuff 12-11-2011 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbls1 (Post 4149943)
If I may.....

This statement by the OP puts us at a bit of a dilemma. The camaro's origin was based on a 2x2 compact that was labeled as a pony car. The original term of "Muscle Car" was defined as an intermediate sized car with a large displacement engine. The subject GM cars (GTO, Chevelle SS396 & 454, Cutlass 442, Skylark GS, GSX; and later iterations of Buick GN, Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix, and to be literal, the later day Grand Prix GTP, Lumina Z34, Cutlass Supreme International Series, Regal GS; and the last GM forbearers which include the Grand Prix GTP(?) and Monte Carlo SS fwd) were all larger than the camaro. So after all of that hot air, the camaro's concept doesn't fit the true definition of a muscle car.

On the other hand, if you don't count Chrysler's Charger 4-door sedan, with the absence of the intermediate class and the increased size of the current camaro, one could argue that the fifth gen is the size of the former muscle car class, and could possibly fit into this description.

So the dilemma is: Do you hold the camaro to its true origin as a pony car, or re-define it (due to its increased size) as a midsized muscle car??


Interesting......


I am well aware of the history behind the muscle and pony car names, but because of the exact reasons you specify, I have always considered the 5th gen V8 Camaro modern muscle. It's large, it's heavy, and it has a big engine. To me that fits the muscle car category much better than the pony car category, regardless of historical categorations.

mr02Z/28 12-11-2011 07:52 PM

any of you guys from the "era" of the True Muscle Car ??? I'm not sure the ZL1 can be compared to the Original Muscle Car era except maybe in HorsePower terms.... The Muscle Car was a Mid-sized car stuffed with a Big-Block motor, example GTO/Chevelle/GS/Skylark/Cutlass/442.. All the others like the Mustang and Camaro were considered Pony Cars, not Muscle Cars...

lbls1 12-11-2011 08:27 PM

Posts 16, 17. and 18: That is why I hinted that perhaps we are at a crossroads with the term muscle. Do we take it literally by saying that we're missing the gto, chevelle, gtx, torino cobra and gt, fairlane, Cyclone, and say that the zl1 should take a hike...lol...

Or should we admit that through the years the term muscle has stretched from its definition established at the creation of the GTO, to include the modern day cars like Challenger, Charger and now the Camaro? All three of these cars have grown (literally) to the performance, persona and legendary status of the muscle cars of old.

.....and in doing so (Naming zl1 as the pinnacle of Muscle Power)....what becomes of the original legacy of the pony car????

....getting interesting....

Rock-It Man 12-11-2011 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr02Z/28 (Post 4150640)
any of you guys from the "era" of the True Muscle Car ??? I'm not sure the ZL1 can be compared to the Original Muscle Car era except maybe in HorsePower terms.... The Muscle Car was a Mid-sized car stuffed with a Big-Block motor, example GTO/Chevelle/GS/Skylark/Cutlass/442.. All the others like the Mustang and Camaro were considered Pony Cars, not Muscle Cars...

Kinda hard to beat an old muscle car like the 442 or GTO of the 60's, with a big block, a 4 speed, and a generous sized rear seat for...you know...

coolman 12-11-2011 08:33 PM

Muscle car, pony car ,what ever you want to call them, today's are far better than the old days and weather or not the ZL1 is king is yet to be seen. It's not even out yet. So to me this thread is meaningless.

OldScoolCamaro 12-11-2011 08:40 PM

Well, the ZL1 isn't a muscle car. Muscle cars were just that. Muscle. They had more muscle than the driver. They required muscle< coordination, feel, and experience> to operate. Today's cars are like a living room couch with a remote where you watch HiDef TV. The ZL1 is a modern marvel, a tribute to all that is technolgicaly possible, but not a true muscle car. Those precious species live in a past gone era. Just my 2 cents. As you were. :chevy:

coolman 12-11-2011 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro (Post 4150843)
Well, the ZL1 isn't a muscle car. Muscle cars were just that. Muscle. They had more muscle than the driver. They required muscle< coordination, feel, and experience> to operate. Today's cars are like a living room couch with a remote where you watch HiDef TV. The ZL1 is a modern marvel, a tribute to all that is technolgicaly possible, but not a true muscle car. Those precious species live in a past gone era. Just my 2 cents. As you were. :chevy:

I agree and say thank god for that.

htron50 12-11-2011 10:53 PM

May I add ONE tidbit to what OldScool says.

I MISS THE BIG BUCKET SEATS OF YESTERYEAR. Why they put these dinky small *ss seats in cars is beyond me. They make the consoles almost a friggin foot wide when we could have had wider bigger seats.

Who makes a car with Big bucket seats anymore? Who is designing these things. PEOPLE are fatter these days (see the news?) but the seats are 2/3 the size they used to be when on avg folks were smaller. Gimme a seat like in the old Chevelle or GTO and I'd be happy (and very comfy in my new Living Room of the road).


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