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-   -   ZL1 Upgrades Installed on a FE3 2010 SS (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197523)

JusticePete 01-24-2012 09:25 PM

ZL1 Upgrades Installed on a FE3 2010 SS
 
The Camaro SS FE4 suspension moves the rear sway bar endlink / drop link mounting close to the knuckle to increase efficiency. The stock bars are now solid 23mm front and 24mm rear. The ZL1 will have 25mm solid front bars and 28mm solid rear bars. Chevrolet moved from hollow to solid bars for strength and durability. They did well, very well :chevy:

Pedders exists to take Modern Muscle to the next level and we have a particular affinity for the 5th Gen Camaro. Our FE4 / FE5 sway bars are solid. The front is 27mm and adjustable. The rears are 32mm. Our bar sets are sold with high efficiency OEM quiet front end-links and fixed position drop- links. How do they perform, do you really need to ask? The owner of this Camaro is a law enforcement professional with countless hours of driver training. His professional opinion -- 'Holy shit, man! The front HOOKED not even CLOSE to breaking traction and the back end stayed right with it. I mean....when the car turns, it TURNS.'

Our FE4 / 5 rear sway bars can be retro fit to any 5th Gen Camaro. The new Camaro rear lower control arms have the 'old' style close to the differential endlink mounting tabs and the 'new' close to the knuckle mounting hole. This is a smart choice by Chevrolet as one common part number can be used on all versions of the 5th Gen Camaro. The new OE lower rear control arms are inexpensive.

Why did Chevrolet make the change in rear sway bar geometry and size? To make the 5th Gen handle better. From day one of the 5th Gen the bias of the car has been heavy on understeer. This is a function of weight distribution, wheel base, track, wheel and tire size and of course sway bar strength. The FE4 addresses both with improved rear sway bar geometry and sway bar strength. The old bars were hollow. The new bars are solid, the material is stronger. The old bars were almost the same diameter (strength) front and rear. The new FE4 rear bar is 1mm larger than the front. It doesn't sound like much, but coupled with the increase in efficiency of the new outboard mounting position it is a big difference. The FE4 Camaro is far more balanced that the FE3 SS. It is more neutral and handles better in the corners.

The new FE5 ZL1 takes this all on steroids. The front bar goes up in size to 25mm and the rear bar a huge jump to 28mm. Talk about balance from the factory :clap:

At Pedders, even great isn't good enough. We have been using a dumbed down rear alignment with a 32mm bar to reduce understeer and improve cornering. We set the rear camber to half the front camber or even less. The on track results were excellent. We feel we had a ZL1 two years ago with our Pedders USA Camaro. Now, there is a ZL1 so we have been hard at work with our partners at Lingenfelter on the L/28. When you next see the L/28 it will be running Pedders new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 sway bars.

Here is the new rear bar complete with Pedders drop-link. The rear bar is NOT adjustable because the FE5 / FE5 / ZL1 drop link design is most efficient when straight up at rest.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...34321560_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...83355637_n.jpg

The new 32mm bar takes up space, but there are ZERO clearance issues.
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...06440340_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...41541003_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...78998552_n.jpg

To get the aggressive alignment we wanted Pedders Extended Range Rear Camber and Toe bolts are necessary. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...22819981_n.jpg

Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...01215951_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...92798528_n.jpg

We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...12067811_n.jpg

FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 Track Alignment

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -2.3 Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off ;)
Toe: OUT .5

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required.

Heath Bratcher, owner of American Muffler / Pedders in Fredericksburg Texas, Jimmy his lead Pedders Tech, myself and TAG UR IT
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...39958492_n.jpg

We'll have these bars available in about 60 days. I'll have confirmed dates for the initial production run in a day or two for the made in the USA Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 27mm adjustable front with high efficiency OEM quiet front endlinks and 32mm rear bar with drop-links kits as well as pricing.

Yes, we will have a retro-fit 32mm rear bar and drop links ONLY option for our clients that ready have our front bars.

Yes we will take pre-orders so you can be certain to start your driving season with the new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 bars.

If you have a ZL1 on order, now would be the ideal time to order your Pedders upgraded sway bars.

If you drag race, you'll want to upgrade to Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 32mm rear bar with OEM Drop-links to improve control of the rear wheels and load distribution. Yes we will have a drag race kit.

Yes, Pedders Extended Range Alignment Bolts are IN Stock.

GM FE4 / ZL1 Style Rear Lower Control Arms -- The part numbers for the FE4 / ZL1 Rear Lower Control Arms #20942237 Chevrolet MSRP $53 Each

FE4 / ZL1 Sway Bar Camaro5 Priority Buyer's List

1. MSW444
2. Addiction
3. Dragoneye
4. SSEOD
5. Avalnch
6. 600hp-lpe
7. 2ss-booya
8.
9.
10.
11.
311. GTAHVIT

ZL1 Conversion Packages for 2010 and 2011 FE2 and FE3 Camaros Pricing and Pre-Buy Information are now online.

ZL1 Sway Bar Upgrades and ZL1 Suspension Packages are now online.

ZL1 Pre-Buy CLICK HERE

The Stig 01-24-2012 09:46 PM

Looks great Pete, nothing like having red parts on the underbelly

grocerygetter 01-24-2012 11:32 PM

that's awesome.
You know...I had a couple guys that are avid road race/auto x guys look at my car real close and made that same comment..."don't add a strut tower brace".

Nutro 01-25-2012 12:11 AM

Pedders is located in Fredericksburg?

JusticePete 01-25-2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutro (Post 4372242)
Pedders is located in Fredericksburg?

No sir. Heath is a local Dealer near our USA offices in Center Point, TX.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6453990_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1141881_n.jpg

Nutro 01-25-2012 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 4372252)
No sir. Heath is a local Dealer near our USA offices in Center Point, TX.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6453990_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1141881_n.jpg


Ah ok. I was going to start hanging around the shop and buying the scratch-and-dent parts haha

JusticePete 01-25-2012 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutro (Post 4372261)
Ah ok. I was going to start hanging around the shop and buying the scratch-and-dent parts haha

Hang around and we may find you a scratch and dent deal on a 10 or 11 :facepalm:

mws444 01-25-2012 06:10 AM

Hmmmmm Looks like an upgrade is coming. I like it!

Just keep making parts to make our Camaros even better......while my wallet hates you. My adrenal gland on the other hand....:bow: :headbang: :bow:

1camaro70 01-25-2012 07:40 AM

from the pictures, car has the XA coilovers?
Will there be a full kit put together with all components? including bushings?
Maybe a revised Pace Car package?

JusticePete 01-25-2012 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1camaro70 (Post 4372717)
from the pictures, car has the XA coilovers?
Will there be a full kit put together with all components? including bushings?
Maybe a revised Pace Car package?

There will absolutely be packages with the new FE4 / 5 bar setup including the Pace Car Package.

JusticePete 01-25-2012 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mws444 (Post 4372542)
Hmmmmm Looks like an upgrade is coming. I like it!

Just keep making parts to make our Camaros even better......while my wallet hates you. My adrenal gland on the other hand....:bow: :headbang: :bow:

Does this mean we have a 'grand opening' project to schedule for THE shop?

Axman 01-26-2012 11:23 AM

Awesome. Just what I've been waiting to hear. Look forward to seeing what packages you end up offering. I have yet to take my Camaro to the track but definitely will. I'm looking for something suitable for daily driver but will also function well on the track.

Thanks again for the good news JusticePete!

GTAHVIT 01-26-2012 11:37 AM

Looks Like my rear sway will be for sale soon.

JusticePete 01-26-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axman (Post 4378608)
Awesome. Just what I've been waiting to hear. Look forward to seeing what packages you end up offering. I have yet to take my Camaro to the track but definitely will. I'm looking for something suitable for daily driver but will also function well on the track.

Thanks again for the good news JusticePete!

You just found it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 4378677)
Looks Like my rear sway will be for sale soon.

You are on ordering constraint until our Autocross Grudge Match is over :paddle:

GTAHVIT 01-26-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 4378780)
You are on ordering constraint until our Autocross Grudge Match is over :paddle:

:mad0260:

BullF-16 01-26-2012 12:46 PM

HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?

My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.



Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 4371448)
The Camaro SS FE4 suspension moves the rear sway bar endlink / drop link mounting close to the knuckle to increase efficiency. The stock bars are now solid 23mm front and 24mm rear. The ZL1 will have 25mm solid front bars and 28mm solid rear bars. Chevrolet moved from hollow to solid bars for strength and durability. They did well, very well :chevy:

Pedders exists to take Modern Muscle to the next level and we have a particular affinity for the 5th Gen Camaro. Our FE4 / FE5 sway bars are solid. The front is 27mm and adjustable. The rears are 32mm. Our bar sets are sold with high efficiency OEM quiet front end-links and fixed position drop- links. How do they perform, do you really need to ask? The owner of this Camaro is a law enforcement professional with countless hours of driver training. His professional opinion -- 'Holy shit, man! The front HOOKED not even CLOSE to breaking traction and the back end stayed right with it. I mean....when the car turns, it TURNS.'

Our FE4 / 5 rear sway bars can be retro fit to any 5th Gen Camaro. The new Camaro rear lower control arms have the 'old' style close to the differential endlink mounting tabs and the 'new' close to the knuckle mounting hole. This is a smart choice by Chevrolet as one coomon part number can be used on all versions of the 5th Gen Camaro. The new OE lower rear control arms are inexpensive.

Why did Chevrolet make the change in rear sway bar geometry and size? To make the 5th Gen handle better. From day one of the 5th Gen the bias of the car has been heavy on understeer. This is a function of weight distribution, wheel base, track, wheel and tire size and of course sway bar strength. The FE4 addresses both with improved rear sway bar geometry and sway bar strength. The old bars were hollow. The new bars are solid, the material is stronger. The old bars were almost the same diameter (strength) front and rear. The new FE4 rear bar is 1mm larger than the front. It doesn't sound like much, but coupled with the increase in efficiency of the new outboard mounting position it is a big difference. The FE4 Camaro is far more balanced that the FE3 SS. It is more neutral and handles better in the corners.

The new FE5 ZL1 takes this all on steroids. The front bar goes up in size to 25mm and the rear bar a huge jump to 28mm. Talk about balance from the factory :clap:

At Pedders, even great isn't good enough. We have been using a dumbed down rear alignment with a 32mm bar to reduce understeer and improve cornering. We set the rear camber to half the front camber or even less. The on track results were excellent. We feel we had a ZL1 two years ago with our Pedders USA Camaro. Now, there is a ZL1 so we have been hard at work with our partners at Lingenfelter on the L/28. When you next see the L/28 it will be running Pedders new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 sway bars.

Here is the new rear bar complete with Pedders drop-link.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...34321560_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...83355637_n.jpg

The new 32mm bar takes up space, but there are ZERO clearance issues.
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...06440340_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...41541003_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...78998552_n.jpg

To get the aggressive alignment we wanted Pedders Extended Range Rear Camber and Toe bolts are necessary. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...22819981_n.jpg

Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...01215951_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...92798528_n.jpg

We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...12067811_n.jpg

FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 Track Alignment

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -2.3 Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off ;)
Toe: OUT .5

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required.

Heath Bratcher, owner of American Muffler / Pedders in Fredericksburg Texas, Jimmy his lead Pedders Tech, myself and TAG UR IT
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...39958492_n.jpg

We'll have these bars available in about 60 days. I'll have confirmed dates for the initial production run in a day or two for the made in the USA Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 27mm adjustable front with high efficiency OEM quiet front endlinks and 32mm rear bar with drop-links kits as well as pricing.

Yes, we will have a retro-fit 32mm rear bar and drop links ONLY option for our clients that ready have our front bars.

Yes we will take pre-orders so you can be certain to start your driving season with the new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 bars.

If you have a ZL1 on order, now would be the ideal time to order your Pedders upgraded sway bars.

If you drag race, you'll want to upgrade to Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 32mm rear bar with OEM Drop-links to improve control of the rear wheels and load distribution. Yes we will have a drag race kit.

Yes, Pedders Extended Range Alignment Bolts are IN Stock.


JusticePete 01-26-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullF-16 (Post 4378981)
HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?

We knew the new style bar and drop-link would be more efficient, but were not sure how much. With the old style bar we compensated for understeer by reducing rear camber. With the new style bar found we could run the same incredibly strong solid 32mm rear bar and have a well balanced car. We can dial in more rear camber to improve cornering. The setup is much improved.

Long story short, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullF-16 (Post 4378981)
My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.

:happyanim:

sting808 01-26-2012 05:28 PM

Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?) :facepalm:

JusticePete 01-26-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sting808 (Post 4380539)
Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?) :facepalm:

The 32mm / Solution C does reduce change the bias / balance of the 5th Gen. The new 32mm even more so.

You have reduced you rear camber to reduce understeer ad that is good. You'll find that pulling the rear toe IN between .10 and .20 will increase stability. Change your front toe to ZERO and that will improve your turn in.

Add the 12 arms and new 32 and we can increase the rear camber to improve cornering while still having great front to rear balance. We are working on a turn key 2010 /2011 package that will include the '12 arms along with Pedders FE4 / ZL1 32mm rear bar and drop links.

You will love the result.

Mr Twisty 01-27-2012 03:30 PM

Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much :sm0:

Zman12 01-27-2012 06:06 PM

Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.

I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?

JusticePete 01-27-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 (Post 4386014)
Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much :sm0:

GTA... the name sounds familiar, but I can't place it :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman12 (Post 4386704)
Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.

Easiest way is to post a pic here or email one to me PGD@PeddersUSA.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman12 (Post 4386704)
I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?

With the RWHP you are making you will want the new FE4 / ZL1 rear bar to match your adjustable 27mm front bar. Why? to more evenly distribute load on a hard launch. To bring better handling balance to your Camaro with the blower up front. I would wait on the lowering coils and install rear sub-frame bushes EP1201HD and EP6579 full face radius bush inserts along with you sway bars. Why? We want to plant the IRS assembly and eliminate rear end step out. The radius bush inserts will reduce unwanted dynamic caster changes. Add in a tight spec Pedders alignment and you won't believe the difference this makes every mile you drive. You'll fall in love with your 5th Gen like it was a new car.

Addiction 01-27-2012 10:43 PM

:popcorn:Is it Feb yet....

davidcroft 01-28-2012 08:36 AM

Are the ZL1 sway bars a direct bolt on mod you can do to an FE4 2012 SS?

Rocky1974 01-28-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 4371448)
Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off ;)

Can you explain this? I'm not doubting you. It's just that I can understand that the front structure may be stiff enough that a strut tower brace is not needed, but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything.


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