Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/index.php)
-   Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=136)
-   -   Why is Z/28 more heralded that the SS? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213972)

Orange2010SS 04-03-2012 04:02 PM

Why is Z/28 more heralded that the SS?
 
Just curious why everyone on the board is always so excited about the z/28 over the SS? I'll explain why I'm asking...maybe it's performance related or I'm just not well educated enough in the differences between Z/28 and SS.

I owned a 1997 Z/28 that was a badass ride. However, the SS was the upgrade to the z/28. This was true for all 4th gen Camaros right? You would see the z/28 everywhere but the SS was far more rare and more expensive with beefed up performance parts.

Then the 5th GEN came out and all the V8s are called an SS whether it's a 1SS or a 2SS based on the options you want. Performance is the same. Yet there is no z/28 (yet). Why did GM/Chevy not just call the standard V8 Camaro a z/28 and instead just went with SS? This confuses most of my friends and family who think I really splurged to get the SS when the z/28 was always the more affordable of the V8 Camaro. They don't realize there is no z/28 for the 5th GEN.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask the experts here, because I honestly don't know. I do realize that in the 1st GEN there was the V6 and the V8 SS and the z/28 wasn't introduced until '69? Maybe that's why the 5th gen is SS since it's the re-birth? There were no SS in the 3rd gen right? I owned a 1986 Berlinetta back in the high school days. LOL. 2.8L baby!! Thanks to this site, I found the '86 Berlinetta was actually quite rare :w00t:

Rangore 04-03-2012 04:03 PM

Exactly...I've wondered the same thing!

PAUL SS 04-03-2012 04:10 PM

What Z28?

There were a few in 67 and maybe 600 or so in 68.

Back in 1969 when they were not too scarce, there was no a/c, no power steering, no automatic transmission, they had a rock crusher transmission, 4.11 gears and posi and a little bitch of a 302 motor that could scream with a Holley carb, aluminum intake and 2.02/1.60 heads with 11 to 1 compression. There was nothing else like it. You can't duplicate that today, it's like a sequel to a great movie that does not cut it. I still remember the feeling I had when I saw my first one. You old guys know what I am talking about.

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 04:40 PM

Oh wow where to begin? Sorry, but I'm gonna let Clyde and Lowdown handle this. (I'm in a read more than respond mood today)

I'll leave you with these 2 thoughts; 1. the SS designation has been used on many models, however the Z28 belongs only to Camaro, like the Z06 to the Vette. 2. The 5Gen was modeled after the 1Gen or the Camaro's beginnings. The Z28 entered in the 1967 model year as a street-able race car.

Cam#7 04-03-2012 05:00 PM

Well, it obvious that GM has played the SS and Z/28 game a number of times over the 5 generations. How about really stirring the pot with the IROC in Gen 3. It boils down to there is only one Chevrolet to ever carry the Z/28 name, that being the Camaro. There was the feeble attempt of giving it's weak sister the Cavalier the Z/24 name. But since 1961 the SS name has been doned and tainted on many unworthy models.

You can bet the next Z/28 will have a different engine than the SS and never be used on another model.

midnighter 04-03-2012 05:03 PM

I like my SS. Z/28 was my favorite in the second gen'.

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 05:19 PM

It will be a track star. IMO it should be a 1LE+LS7+6/4 Brakes(MRC optional)+HW Hood, Aero and Design Cues.

wildpaws 04-03-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAUL SS (Post 4750326)
What Z28?

There were a few in 67 and maybe 600 or so in 68.

Back in 1969 when they were not too scarce, there was no a/c, no power steering, no automatic transmission, they had a rock crusher transmission, 4.11 gears and posi and a little bitch of a 302 motor that could scream with a Holley carb, aluminum intake and 2.02/1.60 heads with 11 to 1 compression. There was nothing else like it. You can't duplicate that today, it's like a sequel to a great movie that does not cut it. I still remember the feeling I had when I saw my first one. You old guys know what I am talking about.

Let's correct some mis-information first, then I'll explain. First gen. Z/28 production: '67-602, '68-7,199, '69-20,302. When the Camaro was first released in the fall of '66 for the '67 model year, there was no Z/28. Some of the executives within the Chevrolet/Camaro section felt that there needed to be a unique Camaro to compete in the SCCA TransAm Sedan Race Series. Some engineers were tasked with doing this and the vehicle that resulted was the Camaro Z/28, it was almost a production racecar available from the factory, it was not available with AC or auto tranny, nor was it available in a convertible. It featured a high compression (11:1) 302cid SBC with solid lifters that was able to rev 7k+ quite easily right off the showroom floor and featured the same Holley 780cfm carb found on some Chevy big block engines. The standard rear gear ratio was 3.73 with optional ratios up to 4.56(and possibly the 4.88s were available also). It could be equipped with a chin spoiler and a trunklid spoiler and was available with the wide "stereo" stipes on hood and trunk that were initially available on Z/28 only. The Z/28 was a mid-year introduction in the '67 model year (I think the first ones were built in Dec. '66). While the first gen SS Camaros were excellent cars, their high performance was more focused on 1/4 mile and straight line accelereation, the Z/28 was purpose built to be focused on excellent handling in curves as well as straightaways. If someone wanted an acceleration focused Camaro they bought a SS, if they wanted excellent all around handling for straightening out curves they chose the Z/28. While the SS models (available with several engine configurations) had great acceleration, throw some curves into the equation and all an SS would see is Z/28 tail lights. And that is a brief history of the heritage of the Z/28 and how it came to be.
Clyde

willhe64 04-03-2012 06:21 PM

There was a limit of 305 cubic inches in the class it was designed for that was being dominated by the Boss 302 Mustang. The z/28 changed all that.

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willhe64 (Post 4750931)
There was a limit of 305 cubic inches in the class it was designed for that was being dominated by the Boss 302 Mustang. The z/28 changed all that.

Actually i believe the Boss 302 came later. They were running the 289.

Fraxum 04-03-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance (Post 4750936)
Actually i believe the Boss 302 came later. They were running the 289.

Wasn't there a 302 Tunnel Port in 1968 before the Boss 302?

wildpaws 04-03-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willhe64 (Post 4750931)
There was a limit of 305 cubic inches in the class it was designed for that was being dominated by the Boss 302 Mustang. The z/28 changed all that.

Again more dis-information! The Boss 302 did not even exist when the Z/28 was introduced in '67, in '67 the Mustangs in the TransAm series were running a 289cid engine. The Boss 302 was a response to the great sucess of the Z/28.
Clyde

wildpaws 04-03-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum (Post 4750976)
Wasn't there a 302 Tunnel Port in 1968 before the Boss 302?

Yes there was and it was a dismal failure as far as engines go. It was this lack of sucess with the tunnel port that led to the design of the Boss 302 engine. Various racing engineers from the Ford teams have said that after the tunnel port engine, Ford teams went to Chevrolet dealers and purchased Z/28 crate engines to disassemble and see what made them tick and why they ran so well. In some respects the Boss 302 was a blatant rip off of the Z/28 motor.
Clyde

Fraxum 04-03-2012 06:43 PM

Yes OP. The Z28 was first created to participate in the very popular at the time Trans Am series. A track halo car if you will. Chevy got the press with the Z28 and was winning the races after 1967. Ford did not catch up until 1970 in the series. That is where the rep comes from.

The SS was used on a number of cars, some good, some not so. Chevy misused the Z28 cache in later years. So it is the history that gives the Z28 its status.

Z28 = Track animal.

M Miller69 04-03-2012 07:00 PM

I believe GM has used and abused the SS name for to long. Are Camaro SS stands behind the Super Sport logo very well. But when you start Giving the newer Impala,colbalt,Silverado,trailblazer,ect SS badges it looses its reputation IMO. The Z/28 has an Iconic ring and name to it, even though some of the mid/later year Z-28s where pretty lame performers.

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Miller69 (Post 4751128)
I believe GM has used and abused the SS name for to long. Are Camaro SS stands behind the Super Sport logo very well. But when you start Giving the newer Impala,colbalt,Silverado,trailblazer,ect SS badges it looses its reputation IMO. The Z/28 has an Iconic ring and name to it, even though some of the mid/later year Z-28s where pretty lame performers.

And so was the Corvette. Only American car with any grunt during this period was the BB Trans Am.

Orange2010SS 04-03-2012 07:10 PM

Cool, thanks for all the replies gang. I 100% agree that SS is used on several models so I understand why us Camaro guys would love that z/28 is only for the track animal. So would you say GM overused the z/28 with the 3rd and especially 4th gen?? Rarely do you see an SS from the 4th gen but there are tons of z/28...I guess maybe that's what gave it less cache with non-enthusiasts.

So with all this said, there's no official GM response as to why the 4th GEN was loaded with z/28 and the SS was the higher up package and here with the 5th GEN it's all SS and everyone is anxious for a z/28?

Good stuff :thumbup:

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 07:14 PM

GM was committed to the Z28 label at that time. SLP offered an upgrade to the Z28 in the form of the Z28/SS. Thankfully GM has righted the ship now...at least once the Z28 has arrived.

It's more than the "Name" it's what it stands for and what it should and will be.

ToolFan66 04-03-2012 07:32 PM

Will it out perform the ZL1? If not does it really matter then??

Just Sayin...

14pilot 04-03-2012 07:44 PM

Since the 5th Gen is inspired by the 1st Gen, when I think Z/28 I think of a 1st Gen inspired Z/28. Lightweight no frills, like rollup windows, no A/C or radio. Track suspension and lots of N/A power. Street legal racer, unlike the current COPO with no VIN.

It came from the factory with headers !!!

(they were in the trunk and the dealer installed them)

2cnd chance 04-03-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14pilot (Post 4751370)
Since the 5th Gen is inspired by the 1st Gen, when I think Z/28 I think of a 1st Gen inspired Z/28. Lightweight no frills, like rollup windows, no A/C or radio. Track suspension and lots of N/A power. Street legal racer, unlike the current COPO with no VIN.

It came from the factory with headers !!!

(they were in the trunk and the dealer installed them)

It was not lighter. And it could be ordered up even with HH, and they weren't light.

boxmonkeyracing 04-03-2012 07:53 PM

and here is why you are really confused. The SS name plate on the camaro dropped off sometime in the 70's. And was not used again until the 4th Gens. in 1993 SLP went to GM and said they wanted to do something special. What resulted was the SS. Since the Z28 was already in production all 94-97 SS's were Z28/SS's. with the introduction of the LS1 into the 4th gens SS became the dominate name plate. the SS has not always been the "Top Dog" for the Camaro.

As for the current Gen the SS stands behind hits name very well. But it doesn't fill the void of a track superstar. The 1LE is a step in the right direction but still not a worthy of the Z28 designation, IMO.

el ess A 04-03-2012 07:54 PM

No need for fighting kids.

The Z28 will return. And when it does, it will be worthy of the name. Note that Chevy hasn't released that particular version just yet. I still truly believe the 1LE is this generation's Z28. But I'm all-in on betting a 6th gen will have that emblem on it somewhere.

el ess A 04-03-2012 08:00 PM

JMO, but the ZL1 is the hard hitting street bruiser to kick sand in the face of the GT500. And I love that aspect. But the entire 5th gen platform is too heavy/bulky to be nimble enough to handle like a Z28 SHOULD do. This is why I feel GM isn't going to stick the Z28 emblem on a 5th gen. I wish they would bring it back, but I'm afraid not for a couple more years. I feel it in the Force. Just like Yoda....forsee it, I have... :)

ShnOmac 04-03-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el ess X (Post 4751496)
But the entire 5th gen platform is too heavy/bulky to be nimble enough to handle like a Z28 SHOULD do

Try telling that to Pedders.......




:laugh:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.