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-   -   Positive Displacement vs. Centrifugal (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214533)

infernometallicSS 04-05-2012 06:47 PM

Positive Displacement vs. Centrifugal
 
So I'm going to supercharge my 2012 L99, just wanting to hear some opinions on the type of supercharger they would go with, or have gone with. I am running on a stock bottom end so won't be running a lot of boost about 7-8 psi. I'm wondering about power down low with a centri. Obviously a centri doesn't pack the low end punch like a pd.
If there is anyone in the Phoenix area that has either type of blower that wants to give me a ride along, please let me know. I am going back and forth between the two types. :mad0259:

BullF-16 04-05-2012 06:55 PM

I run a centri and love it and will always do so. They are beastly with rpms above 4000 and insane at 5000-6500. I will never go PD, YMMV

I recommend a PD for a street driven ride because it is instant gratification when using the right foot. The centri is pretty much useless below 3000-3500. It just depends on you goals, and based on what you typed, i think a Whipple will make you very happy:D

10aSSee D 04-05-2012 06:59 PM

Just depends on where you like your power at. Both are fun but mine sees the street alot more than the strip so I like the PD for the street, instant torque as soon as you step on it. PD's are probably harder to hook at the strip but I love my whipple and all the fun that comes with it!!!

HufferSS 04-05-2012 07:56 PM

They're both awesome and quite frankly if you run a wastegate on the centri it will do a great imitation of a PD blower down low and run away from it like a scalded dog on the top end.

infernometallicSS 04-05-2012 08:30 PM

My car is more of a "for fun" car. I take it to the track sometimes. But I have a feeling I would love that blast of power down low. But really I don't know cause I havent seen either.

RSBAD454 04-05-2012 10:20 PM

I have plenty of torque down low....I just installed a Procharger on mine. All the Supercharger systems are awesome in my book. I chose the Centri for the fact of the installation along with the mid to top end charge and there aren't any cooling lines, extra water pumps etc to deal with. I too thought long and hard about it, but made the correct choice for my application. IMO, the RPMs come up fast enough where all the talk about no torque down low etc is out the door.

thebeast916 04-05-2012 11:15 PM

I have ridiculous torque Down low with my d1 procharger. Pulls very hard for only being around 9.5 lbs of boost or so. It's easier on the valve train. Not an instant hit of torque and lose top end power as rpms climb like a pd blower.

This thing just keeps on pulling and doesn't stop till you ease off the gas. I am very impressed with the linear power as it kicks in.

I recommend centrifugal all the way

Fiftydriver 04-05-2012 11:39 PM

My plan was to build a stout street car only, no intent to run on the track. I wanted all the grunt I could get from idle to around 4500 rpms. Now, at times I go above this but not all that often.

Because of this, and after asking about the same thing you just did, and getting hundreds of good recommendations, I went with the maggie on my L99 and I could not be happier.

I have heard that the Centri blowers are similiar to turbo units, they start building boost at higher rpms then the PD blowers but they will continue to build boost right up till the limits of the rpm ranges. For this reason, for a strip car, the centri blowers would probably be best.

I have also heard they are easier on a stock engine. If your really hard on your car with a stock bottom end, the PD blowers will probably be the hardest on your stock bottom end.

camslambam 04-06-2012 12:57 AM

Have you done an ls3 conversion?

If you want to make any type of real respectable power out of the L99 swap over and put a blower cam. At 8lbs my tvs2300 is throwing out 620rwhp.

infernometallicSS 04-06-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camslambam (Post 4764445)
Have you done an ls3 conversion?

If you want to make any type of real respectable power out of the L99 swap over and put a blower cam. At 8lbs my tvs2300 is throwing out 620rwhp.

No LS3 converstion done as of yet. I'm still up in the air with that one too. Lol.

Fiftydriver 04-06-2012 09:01 AM

If your going over 550 RWHP, I think you will probably need to do the LS3 conversion, or if your looking to run at high RPMs alot. If for street use only, and you will stay under 550 HP, the stock valvetrain will probably be fine from what I have been told.

EvoWake 04-06-2012 09:04 AM

Dyno of my car with a PD blower (TVS2300)
Area beneath the curve says it all. Instant 'holy shit' anywhere you want. :D

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/a...0Cars/dyno.jpg

Fiftydriver 04-06-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoWake (Post 4765303)
Dyno of my car with a PD blower (TVS2300)
Area beneath the curve says it all. Instant 'holy shit' anywhere you want. :D

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/a...0Cars/dyno.jpg


Whats going on with your car above 5500 rpms? Are you having some belt slippage issues? I hear this is common with the Maggie on upper RPM levels, what belt are you using?

Detoxx03 04-06-2012 11:26 AM

Centrifugal all the way. The no torque down low argument is total bs and a gimmick to get you to buy a heat pump, I mean positive displacement blower. I know on this site that's what the majority go with but you can beat having a Procharger. The Centri will run cooler, make enough torque for you to have fun and allow you to get traction while maintaining constant power, the power won't fall off as the rpm's climb, it doesn't stress your motor like a PD blower, etc. I could go on and on but I'm having a blast with my Centri so don't get caught up in the overrated lack of torque down low argument.

This is on 7lbs with a D-1SC on a LS3 with no headers or meth
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...x/f4ddf28a.jpg

Fiftydriver 04-06-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxx03 (Post 4765983)
Centrifugal all the way. The no torque down low argument is total bs and a gimmick to get you to buy a heat pump, I mean positive displacement blower. I know on this site that's what the majority go with but you can beat having a Procharger. The Centri will run cooler, make enough torque for you to have fun and allow you to get traction while maintaining constant power, the power won't fall off as the rpm's climb, it doesn't stress your motor like a PD blower, etc. I could go on and on but I'm having a blast with my Centri so don't get caught up in the overrated lack of torque down low argument.

This is on 7lbs with a D-1SC on a LS3 with no headers or meth
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...x/f4ddf28a.jpg


I do not think anyone has said anything about the Centri's not having any low end torque, they just do better at upper RPM levels which is exactly what your dyno chart proves. At 3000 rpms, your getting around 400 lb/ft or torque. At the same rpms, Evowake has 550 lb/ ft and his torque curve is much broader and flatter compared to yours. Now different engine specs are certainly going to produce different power levels but on average, from the dyno charts I have studied, the PD blowers make a very wide, broad, flat torque curve and the centri's make a gradually building torque curve.

This is the difference between the two, this is why a Centri may be better for a race car as they do not top out like a PD does. This is why a PD offers more usible grunt at street rpms.

Both are very different, not saying one is better then the other, just need to see which one matches up with your wants, needs and goals better for the way you will be driving your car. Both are great, both have their advantages, both have their disadvantages. All you have to do is look at the shape of the dyno graphs to tell you what each blower will do at different RPM levels.

Detoxx03 04-06-2012 01:37 PM

All that torque will be useless if you can drive, have drag radials, or both. Everyone has their preference and mine is a Centri. The whole centri's are better for racing and pd's are better for the street is a silly argument too. It all comes down to driver mod and traction. If your pd car doesn't perform at the strip it's because you can drive not because of the type of blower you have.

EvoWake 04-06-2012 01:41 PM

First off nice numbers man! I had a P1SC on my last camaro just to validate that i'm not trying to start a fight here. That being said, i have to point out that your statement.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxx03
The no torque down low argument is total bs and a gimmick to get you to buy a heat pump, I mean positive displacement blower.


Is utterly false. Horsepower is a function of torque. if you are generating more torque across a wider range of engine speed, you ultimately have a better performing vehicle provided you can put the power to the ground.

Because it is difficult in most cases for any car over 500HP to put power to the ground, this is where a centri. gets a point for most street applications in my book.

as far as the PD falling on its face, my car has a cam that runs out a bit up top, and if you want more, build up, pulley down :D

Either way, PD or Centri, you'll have a bad ass ride.

94guy 04-06-2012 01:59 PM

cyber how fast is your car?

EvoWake 04-06-2012 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPredator (Post 4766634)
Hahaha this again. To answer question neither!!!! Go twin turbo!!!!! 693whp 708wtq 9.5psi stock exhaust, stock cam, stock heads. + a boost controller allows you to turn it up and down as you please. :D

Dang, talk about efficient boost! Noice!

oh, and OP, I went with a PD because i liked the OEM nature of its appearance more than anything. Any FI setup is going the be fun as hell and more than you can realistically use on the street without a LOT of suspension work.

Detoxx03 04-06-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPredator (Post 4766634)
Hahaha this again. To answer question neither!!!! Go twin turbo!!!!! 693whp 708wtq 9.5psi stock exhaust, stock cam, stock heads. + a boost controller allows you to turn it up and down as you please. :D

This is also a great option. I've rode in this car and it's a absolute monster. Totally stock looking and once you've found out its not it's too late.

Detoxx03 04-06-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoWake (Post 4766601)
First off nice numbers man! I had a P1SC on my last camaro just to validate that i'm not trying to start a fight here. That being said, i have to point out that your statement.....




Is utterly false. Horsepower is a function of torque. if you are generating more torque across a wider range of engine speed, you ultimately have a better performing vehicle provided you can put the power to the ground.

Because it is difficult in most cases for any car over 500HP to put power to the ground, this is where a centri. gets a point for most street applications in my book.

as far as the PD falling on its face, my car has a cam that runs out a bit up top, and if you want more, build up, pulley down :D

Either way, PD or Centri, you'll have a bad ass ride.

Putting the power to the ground is key. Both produce enough torque to leave the car sitting still.

EvoWake 04-06-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxx03 (Post 4766799)
Putting the power to the ground is key. Both produce enough torque to leave the car sitting still.

Amen :drinking:

xx_ED_xx 04-06-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPredator (Post 4766634)
Hahaha this again. To answer question neither!!!! Go twin turbo!!!!! 693whp 708wtq 9.5psi stock exhaust, stock cam, stock heads. + a boost controller allows you to turn it up and down as you please. :D

I second that motion :D

MANNYS2SS/RS 04-06-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxx03 (Post 4766799)
Putting the power to the ground is key. Both produce enough torque to leave the car sitting still.

I agree!! :thumbsup:

infernometallicSS 04-06-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPredator (Post 4766634)
Go twin turbo!!!!! 693whp 708wtq 9.5psi

Holy Christ that's a lot of torque!!


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