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-   -   A Day with a ZL1 in the eyes of Torq! (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217969)

Meister@Torq 04-20-2012 04:20 PM

A Day with a ZL1 in the eyes of Torq!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Let me first thank our customer Alex for bringing his beautiful black, carbon ZL1 to the shop yesterday to help us test fit a prototype cold air intake for one of the big intake manufacturers. Alex really wanted to see what his car would lay down stock so we invited him back today to make a couple of pulls and to see if we could persuade him into a calibration session.....and we were successful in doing such :D:D

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...a/DSC02976.jpg


Initial Impressions
Everyone at the shop was impressed with the build quality and the styling of the veicle. The car is very well built and we were excited to have the opportunity to work on a customers ZL1 so fast.

Stock Calibration/Dyno Results/Thoughs
Air-Fuel was measured with our Lab Grade ECM AFM-1000 Wide Band/Lambda Meter. Datalogging was preformed with EFI Live

The stock calibration is VERY aggressive so I knew I was in for a battle with this beast trying to make any more power. Compared to the CTS-V's we have tested, the air-fuel was found it to be leaner and final total timing is advanced compared to the V's. I am sure if the car was ice cold we could have made 480-485 but that is not what we were trying to accomplish.

In stock trim the car made 476/485 with a lambda of .79 until 4500 and about .74 above 4500 to redline (11.55-10.88 AFR based on GM's cal) with reported spark knock during our datalogs in various rpm zones.

Intake Air Temperatures are CRAZY with this car. It was 85* in the shop today and we were getting reported IAT 2's at the end of the runs near 145 and the start of the run reported IAT 2's were approx. 117. This is a rise of roughly 28* F, which is crazy.

We have dyno'ed CTS-V's and Supercharged SS's with reported temperatures much lower and the rise far less so we know there are a ton of improvements to be made with the car....and don't worry we have a couple great products in the pipeline we are testing next week and are already in stock ready to ship!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

We verified both the factory MAF calibration and VE calibration and found both to be off slightly.....which is expected from a mass produced factory calibration

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...09268715_n.jpg

Torq Calibration Process
Like most, we made our standard changes such as turning off the CAGS (Skip Shift), changes to the fan settings and started our calibration process. We dialed in both the MAF and VE surfaces to dial in fueling and starting working on our spark calibration.

Like all of our calibrations, we spend a ton of timing improving the overall feel and performance outside of WOT. This is where most of us/customers spend time so why shouldn't we spend most of our time calibrating these conditions. Surprisingly we found many areas where we could make improvements outside of WOT to help increase the performance/feel of the car.

We already knew what improvements could be made based on our initial logs of the factory calibration so we flashed the car and made changes. As I expected, we picked up some great torque and hp down low and on the hit and continued making runs to dial in spark and fuel to our liking. We picked up some good HP/TQ throughout the run but nothing mind blowing...again, what we expected from this car.

Results
Stock Results: 476rwhp/485rwtq
Tuned Results: 490rwhp/501rwtq

Highest gains are 34rwtq and 14rwhp. The big torque increase down low on the hit really wakes this car up. 14rwhp and 16rwtq peak gains. Took a ton of time and focus to pickup power. The around town gains, roll on throttle increases are really nice!

Stay tuned for our video!!!

Stage 2
The customer decided he wanted more power so we are installing the following:

2.55 Upper
10% OD Lower
Torq Hand Ported Snout
Aftermarket Airbox (pics and brand to be disclosed shortly)
Some other really cool pieces we have designed for this car with the help of CAD data provided through the SEMA Tech Transfer program


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hpB-...1&feature=plcp

Meister@Torq 04-20-2012 05:45 PM

Stay tuned for our video coming shortly

Joebot8484 04-20-2012 05:55 PM

:popcorn:

1954 Belair-man 04-20-2012 06:02 PM

:popcorn:

radz28 04-20-2012 06:11 PM

Cool!!! It's nice to see some IAT data from a stock car!!!

Thanks and I'm looking forward to more results :)

toytruckman 04-20-2012 06:12 PM

:popcorn:

Blue Menace 04-20-2012 06:27 PM

I'm guessing this is an auto?

Erik@Torq 04-20-2012 06:28 PM

Video is up!

I CANNOT WAIT TO GET MY CAR (sorry for the rant, just had to say it one more time lol) but thanks to our good friend Alex for letting me take it for test drive!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hpB-...ature=youtu.be


/Erik

ParisTNDude 04-20-2012 06:30 PM

The improvement is about what a bolt on CAI might make...so, I say that's impressive! I'm sure there's more to come.

htron50 04-20-2012 06:41 PM

So 490 is almost 580 less 15%. Is that about normal? Was it Auto or Stick? I have seen a few reports of over 500 RWHP in stock trim.

HondaPowered 04-20-2012 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Menace (Post 4839341)
I'm guessing this is an auto?

Quote:

Originally Posted by htron50 (Post 4839425)
So 490 is almost 580 less 15%. Is that about normal? Was it Auto or Stick? I have seen a few reports of over 500 RWHP in stock trim.

Stick, it says in the description. They had to eliminate the skip shift, which only happens in the manual.

69 Rebel 04-20-2012 07:22 PM

This guys (see link below) Stick car dynoed at 512rwhp, why such a big difference.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217819

2012ZL1 04-20-2012 07:58 PM

hmm weird how some people over 500 with no mods?

Blue Menace 04-20-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaPowered (Post 4839545)
Stick, it says in the description. They had to eliminate the skip shift, which only happens in the manual.

Doh! Missed that. Well, I guessed auto because of the lower stock rwhp. As someone else noted, a different manual had over 500. Big difference indeed!

mlee 04-20-2012 08:27 PM

:subscribed:

islander033 04-20-2012 08:33 PM

Different dynos on different days will produce different numbers. This is why they are more of a tuning device than anything else.

With that being said, the numbers that they produce make for good conversations. :)

sasquash1984 04-20-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaPowered (Post 4839545)
Stick, it says in the description. They had to eliminate the skip shift, which only happens in the manual.

Do what skip shift still :facepalm:

Meister@Torq 04-20-2012 08:38 PM

To confirm, this was a stick shift car and really only made a bit less than expected. I am sure on a glory run with good IAT's and temps below 85 in the shop we could have seen 490+. We do not focus so much on the numbers but rather the gains and that is why we baseline EVERY SINGLE car we bring into our facility. Dyno's are different and so many factors come into play. We have been working on factory supercharged vehicles since 2003 with the Ford's and even with the CTS-V's we have seen +/- 15+RWHP. Heck, even the SS models we saw 10RWHP differences.

We appreciate all the feedback and emails we have received since our testing.

We gathered a TON of data that we will use for in-house development of tunes and performance parts/packages.

Tysen 04-20-2012 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquash1984 (Post 4840091)
Do what skip shift still :facepalm:

This. If you're paying gas guzzler tax already, why keep the skip shift?

Meister@Torq 04-20-2012 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquash1984 (Post 4840091)
Do what skip shift still :facepalm:

This can be left enabled if the customer wants; however since the Camaro came out we have tuned over 250 of them and not one has requested to keep it. If this is what someone would like, we can make it happen

SUX2BU 04-20-2012 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister@Torq (Post 4840099)
To confirm, this was a stick shift car and really only made a bit less than expected. I am sure on a glory run with good IAT's and temps below 85 in the shop we could have seen 490+. We do not focus so much on the numbers but rather the gains and that is why we baseline EVERY SINGLE car we bring into our facility. Dyno's are different and so many factors come into play. We have been working on factory supercharged vehicles since 2003 with the Ford's and even with the CTS-V's we have seen +/- 15+RWHP. Heck, even the SS models we saw 10RWHP differences.

We appreciate all the feedback and emails we have received since our testing.

We gathered a TON of data that we will use for in-house development of tunes and performance parts/packages.

:word:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tysen (Post 4840118)
This. If you're paying gas guzzler tax already, why keep the skip shift?

Do you want to pay a higher gas guzzler tax?

actireman 04-21-2012 06:28 AM

I have a Mustang MD250 chassis dyno and we will dyno my car next week. I have been waiting to get some miles on my car first. It looks to me like he has a Mustang dyno also. The eddy current dynos always give lower numbers than the dynojets, thats why you see the difference in numbers. But in the same token they are more accurate and better for tuning and I agree with him. I am very impressed by those numbers on a Mustang dyno. I hope my car will have the same. We will know soon enough.

Frankzl1 04-21-2012 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister@Torq (Post 4838816)
Let me first thank our customer Alex for bringing his beautiful black, carbon ZL1 to the shop yesterday to help us test fit a prototype cold air intake for one of the big intake manufacturers. Alex really wanted to see what his car would lay down stock so we invited him back today to make a couple of pulls and to see if we could persuade him into a calibration session.....and we were successful in doing such :D:D

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...a/DSC02976.jpg


Initial Impressions
Everyone at the shop was impressed with the build quality and the styling of the veicle. The car is very well built and we were excited to have the opportunity to work on a customers ZL1 so fast.

Stock Calibration/Dyno Results/Thoughs
Air-Fuel was measured with our Lab Grade ECM AFM-1000 Wide Band/Lambda Meter. Datalogging was preformed with EFI Live

The stock calibration is VERY aggressive so I knew I was in for a battle with this beast trying to make any more power. Compared to the CTS-V's we have tested, the air-fuel was found it to be leaner and final total timing is advanced compared to the V's. I am sure if the car was ice cold we could have made 480-485 but that is not what we were trying to accomplish.

In stock trim the car made 476/485 with a lambda of .79 until 4500 and about .74 above 4500 to redline (11.55-10.88 AFR based on GM's cal) with reported spark knock during our datalogs in various rpm zones.

Intake Air Temperatures are CRAZY with this car. It was 85* in the shop today and we were getting reported IAT 2's at the end of the runs near 145 and the start of the run reported IAT 2's were approx. 117. This is a rise of roughly 28* F, which is crazy.

We have dyno'ed CTS-V's and Supercharged SS's with reported temperatures much lower and the rise far less so we know there are a ton of improvements to be made with the car....and don't worry we have a couple great products in the pipeline we are testing next week and are already in stock ready to ship!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

We verified both the factory MAF calibration and VE calibration and found both to be off slightly.....which is expected from a mass produced factory calibration

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...09268715_n.jpg

Torq Calibration Process
Like most, we made our standard changes such as turning off the CAGS (Skip Shift), changes to the fan settings and started our calibration process. We dialed in both the MAF and VE surfaces to dial in fueling and starting working on our spark calibration.

Like all of our calibrations, we spend a ton of timing improving the overall feel and performance outside of WOT. This is where most of us/customers spend time so why shouldn't we spend most of our time calibrating these conditions. Surprisingly we found many areas where we could make improvements outside of WOT to help increase the performance/feel of the car.

We already knew what improvements could be made based on our initial logs of the factory calibration so we flashed the car and made changes. As I expected, we picked up some great torque and hp down low and on the hit and continued making runs to dial in spark and fuel to our liking. We picked up some good HP/TQ throughout the run but nothing mind blowing...again, what we expected from this car.

Results
Stock Results: 476rwhp/485rwtq
Tuned Results: 490rwhp/501rwtq

Highest gains are 34rwtq and 14rwhp. The big torque increase down low on the hit really wakes this car up. 14rwhp and 16rwtq peak gains. Took a ton of time and focus to pickup power. The around town gains, roll on throttle increases are really nice!

Stay tuned for our video!!!

Stage 2
The customer decided he wanted more power so we are installing the following:

2.55 Upper
10% OD Lower
Torq Hand Ported Snout
Aftermarket Airbox (pics and brand to be disclosed shortly)
Some other really cool pieces we have designed for this car with the help of CAD data provided through the SEMA Tech Transfer program


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hpB-...1&feature=plcp

Nice job guys!!!!:thumbup:

Meister@Torq 04-21-2012 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actireman (Post 4841276)
I have a Mustang MD250 chassis dyno and we will dyno my car next week. I have been waiting to get some miles on my car first. It looks to me like he has a Mustang dyno also. The eddy current dynos always give lower numbers than the dynojets, thats why you see the difference in numbers. But in the same token they are more accurate and better for tuning and I agree with him. I am very impressed by those numbers on a Mustang dyno. I hope my car will have the same. We will know soon enough.

Yes. We have a MD1100SE. The lower numbers were also related due to the excessive IAT's. The S/C cooling system on this car is terrible

HondaPowered 04-21-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquash1984 (Post 4840091)
Do what skip shift still :facepalm:

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to convey or ask in this sentence^^


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