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-   -   Any ZL1 mods for HP that do not need a Tune (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232895)

tnspd 06-24-2012 03:48 PM

Any ZL1 mods for HP that do not need a Tune
 
So from what I have been reading are there any ZL1 mods to gain some HP that do not need a Tune. This is rediculous! Everyone I read says you need a tune.......

DangerZL1 06-24-2012 03:51 PM

There's LPE's CAI that says no tune is required, but the HP numbers haven't been published for it.

Mr.R 06-24-2012 09:52 PM

I put just a K&N filter in and made a small difference. I'm waiting for the CAI with no tune. Lingenfelter said +20hp over the phone but I want to see the results before I pay $600 for it.

ADM PERFORMANCE 06-24-2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnspd (Post 5181551)
So from what I have been reading are there any ZL1 mods to gain some HP that do not need a Tune. This is rediculous! Everyone I read says you need a tune.......

Why is it ridiculous?

You would feel more comfortable running to lean or to much timing for the boost or extra heat your creating .....Tuning is for your engines safety!

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

tnspd 06-25-2012 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE (Post 5183105)
Why is it ridiculous?

You would feel more comfortable running to lean or to much timing for the boost or extra heat your creating .....Tuning is for your engines safety!

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

I understand it is for the safety of the engine and I have no problems with tunes from the right shop but you would think that putting on a cold air, the cars system would learn it and adjust accordingly without needing a tune. JMHO.

DangerZL1 06-25-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnspd (Post 5184269)
I understand it is for the safety of the engine and I have no problems with tunes from the right shop but you would think that putting on a cold air, the cars system would learn it and adjust accordingly without needing a tune. JMHO.

It would be great if the ECM could adjust the paramaters, but the OEM tune it is designed to only operate in a specific window. I've seen graphs where a CAI picked up 40+ RWTQ. I think we'd be asking too much to have the ECM handle the scaling automatically.

Mr.R 06-25-2012 11:51 AM

One would think the ECM would have a tolerance of +/- 5% so that's about 20-25 RWHP

RoketRdr 06-25-2012 01:55 PM

Tolerance? A sensor value is what it is. The ECM can't magically create it's own values for a given input and ignore what it truly reads. Not legally anyway. If I push a #3 on a calculator I expect to get a 3 on the display and not whatever the processor decides to give me. The EPA will never allow manufacturers to do this or else emissions standards wouldn't mean a thing and there would be no need for computer controlled engine management systems nor would any car meet modern fuel mileage standards. Not being a jerk guys but you really should invest some time in EFI 101 and learn what each sensor is, the value scale and type of signal it transmits and what the software in the ECM does with the information. You'll have a whole new outlook on what these tuners actually do and the amount of time they invest in providing the products that produce more power safely and still allow you to LEGALLY pass annual inspection. Not to mention its far more fun to actually know how your car works and what's going on with your modern computer controlled hotrod. :thumbsup:

thespymaster 06-25-2012 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE (Post 5183105)

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

You can bet in the 14 MY + , the might be locked out from re-programing!

Of course the aftermarket industry will have a fix for it!

8cd03gro 06-25-2012 05:02 PM

Weight reduction doesn't require a tune ;)

But really, especially with forced induction engines, AFR's can be very touchy. You can typically get away with some exhaust stuff, but power is going to come from either making the engine more efficient by freeing up more flow hot or cold, increasing boost, or cooling the intake charge. Any of these are going to require a tune to take full advantage of. If you don't want to void your warranty with a tune, just work on taking advantage of the power you have. Lighter wheels may be a good option.

PQ 06-25-2012 05:12 PM

Pulley down might not require a tune? :iono:

I don't know how much boost is being created stock. But the computer should be able to handle the fuel and air adjustments as long as the boost is safe and injectors can keep up.

I'm guessing here. maybe somebody can clarify?

RoketRdr 06-25-2012 06:35 PM

Stock boost is 9psi and the limit is 12psi with the secondary boost control. Once it see's higher boost than that it will open the by-pass and bleed off the excess boost. If you run a pulley to get higher than 12psi you must have a tune or it will just keep bleeding off the pressure. You also have to pull the vacuum line off the "P" valve and cap it so you can make over 12psi without it bleeding. But even running boost below 12psi it would be best to let a tuner write a tune to optimize the additional air volume because it affects the fuel tables. But yes...the ECM with a proper tune can handle the AF adjustments fine. Its the fuel system that will become a problem once high horsepower levels are reached. Some tuners have already figured out those limits and developed packages to handle the issues. :thumbsup:

2012ZL1 06-25-2012 11:07 PM

Where is the bypass? I'll just unhook it now and save time.

radz28 06-26-2012 09:22 AM

I understand there is a tool Lingenfelter makes in order to unlock the factory limit. I read it in GMHTP I think. I think that was ADM's 'V pulley, intake, tuning article.

If you go to a reputable shop, like one of our Sponsors, you'll be just fine. You get what you pay for, though. I definately wouldn't go anywhere that doesn't do a lot of tuning on your specific car.

SC2150 06-26-2012 11:06 AM

RoketRdr has some good info.

As far as a improvement not needing a tune to realize would be the RX Super Chiller....eliminate timing being pulled from high IAT temps and pretty affordable.

Send the car down and will do the installation free. Let me know if you need more info. :thumbsup:

RoketRdr 06-26-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1 (Post 5189963)
Where is the bypass? I'll just unhook it now and save time.

You will see the valve and solenoid behind the blower pulley and to the left. You will need to disconnect the two vacuum lines connected into the blower manifold and put caps on the ports. You will also need to pull the vacuum line between the solenoid and control valve then install a cap on the solenoid where you pulled the vacuum line. Keep in mind this won't do you any good until you're making 12psi+ and it's also by-passing the safety barrier while your car is stock.

radz28 06-26-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 5191804)
RoketRdr has some good info.

As far as a improvement not needing a tune to realize would be the RX Super Chiller....eliminate timing being pulled from high IAT temps and pretty affordable.

Send the car down and will do the installation free. Let me know if you need more info. :thumbsup:

I definately need to get caught up on your kit :headbang::bow::respekt:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoketRdr (Post 5192024)
You will see the valve and solenoid behind the blower pulley and to the left. You will need to disconnect the two vacuum lines connected into the blower manifold and put caps on the ports. You will also need to pull the vacuum line between the solenoid and control valve then install a cap on the solenoid where you pulled the vacuum line. Keep in mind this won't do you any good until you're making 12psi+ and it's also by-passing the safety barrier while your car is stock.

I wonder what the Heck the tool was I was thinking of then... :facepalm: That sounds pretty easy, actually. I was thinking about going no higher than 15-psi, but that would probably put me pretty well past my goal, given the other mods' I was considering.

Thanks a BUNCH for the information!!! :respekt::respekt::respekt:

RoketRdr 06-26-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 5192223)
I wonder what the Heck the tool was I was thinking of then... :facepalm: That sounds pretty easy, actually. I was thinking about going no higher than 15-psi, but that would probably put me pretty well past my goal, given the other mods' I was considering.

Thanks a BUNCH for the information!!! :respekt::respekt::respekt:

15psi is about the max you're gonna be able to reach anyway depending on the mods you do. All the 650hp+ cars are running 15-16psi boost. Running the stock crank pulley and a 2.55" blower pulley will give you about 13psi. Lingenfelter makes a 2.38" pulley that will get you to 15psi without changing the crank pulley.

radz28 06-26-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoketRdr (Post 5192256)
15psi is about the max you're gonna be able to reach anyway depending on the mods you do. All the 650hp+ cars are running 15-16psi boost. Running the stock crank pulley and a 2.55" blower pulley will give you about 13psi. Lingenfelter makes a 2.38" pulley that will get you to 15psi without changing the crank pulley.

Cool. Thank you for the comments. I haven't been able to really track the psi from a lot of these builds. I didn't really think that little 1900 was going to get too much past 750 horse', but there's a non-sponsor I've been watching from time-to-time saying they've got a 19-psi package. That is pretty much an entirely new long block package but I know I'd never need to get near that anyways.

I'm a little worried about such a small upper; won't slip become an issue? I haven't really researched a 10-rib swap or anything, or even know if one is available. I was just thinking to keep slip a minimum, that I'd go a 2.55-upper and the 9.5-inch lower. I think Metco makes a kit, too; I just haven't checked. D3 has some great V' parts, but, they're not a sponsor, so you won't see me saying that company much. It looks like I have more research :)D

PQ 06-26-2012 12:59 PM

So a smaller pulley to create a few more pounds of boost and in the ballpark of 30 to 40 horse power would be plausible with no tune.

Also, a Camaro5.com sticker requires no tune.

RoketRdr 06-26-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28 (Post 5192352)
Cool. Thank you for the comments. I haven't been able to really track the psi from a lot of these builds. I didn't really think that little 1900 was going to get too much past 750 horse', but there's a non-sponsor I've been watching from time-to-time saying they've got a 19-psi package. That is pretty much an entirely new long block package but I know I'd never need to get near that anyways.

I'm a little worried about such a small upper; won't slip become an issue? I haven't really researched a 10-rib swap or anything, or even know if one is available. I was just thinking to keep slip a minimum, that I'd go a 2.55-upper and the 9.5-inch lower. I think Metco makes a kit, too; I just haven't checked. D3 has some great V' parts, but, they're not a sponsor, so you won't see me saying that company much. It looks like I have more research :)D

Yes slip will become an issue which is why I would never go below 2.5" on an upper pulley. But Metco makes a really nice tensioner system for the LSA that deals with this problem and you could also go to a 10-rib system but I don't think its necessary. And you might want to go with a 9.1 lower because the 2.55" upper with 9.55 lower will give you right at 17psi. A 2.55" upper with 9.1" lower will be just over 15psi.

tnspd 06-26-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PQ (Post 5192469)
So a smaller pulley to create a few more pounds of boost and in the ballpark of 30 to 40 horse power would be plausible with not tune.

Also, a Camaro5.com sticker requires no tune.

The sticker alone is 5hp.......

Modern07 06-26-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 5191804)
RoketRdr has some good info.

As far as a improvement not needing a tune to realize would be the RX Super Chiller....eliminate timing being pulled from high IAT temps and pretty affordable.

Send the car down and will do the installation free. Let me know if you need more info. :thumbsup:

When my ZL1 arrives I'll be in touch for more info! :thumbsup:

Meister@Torq 06-29-2012 10:34 AM

Our dual fan heat exchanger will not void warranty and is a must have for all ZL owners.

Tampa Tuning 07-07-2012 04:11 PM

Camaro Corvette Trans Am GTO GM Truck tuner in Tampa Orlando
 
If you are going to introduce additional air into your system, your going to want to optimize it with additional fuel.

A new air intake, ported throttle body, ported intake manifold, and mufflers can add a couple ponies to the system and not have to tune.

If you do a smaller pulley, you should tune it.
www.TampaTuning.com
Phil


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