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-   Camaro V6 LFX Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148)
-   -   Resonated X-Pipe (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232968)

colingordon 06-24-2012 08:19 PM

Resonated X-Pipe
 
Hey everyone so I am going to get a muffler delete with a resonator delete with a resonated x-pipe. I have two questions, since I'm gonna have my guy clamp the muffler delete on so I can cut off my stock mufflers and use them when I go for inspection, since I'm also getting a resonator delete will I be fine and pass inspection since I have the resonated x-pipe?

Do you guys think this is a good set-up and does anyone have a video of the same set-up?

Thanks

Colin Gordon

bluecam805 06-25-2012 03:23 AM

are you keeping your stock resonators?

to be honest ive heard that the v6s dont sound nearly as nice with a muffler delete as the v8s. raspy ive heard

and your gona loose backpressure

colingordon 06-25-2012 07:13 AM

No I'm getting a resonator delete. And no has explained to me what loosing back pressure does they just saying it. What does it mean?

just_cooling 06-25-2012 08:04 AM

You don't want a lot of back pressure. You really don't want any at all thats why they make straight pipes with no cat, resonator or muffler. Back pressure is air built up in the pipes (muffler) that keeps air from escaping due to a build up of pressure. The muffler is what it is which is basically a sound canceller. I have a muffler delete and love it. I thinking about deleting one of the resonators to get more of a raspy tone. Where did you get the x pipe?

bluecam805 06-25-2012 11:08 AM

if you like raspy ricey sound than strate pipe is the way to go. backpressure helps your power though, i read into it but havent gottn down to a legitament answer yet myself, ive read many C5 members lose power with strate pipes. Look up videos of people with that exhaust. some v8s sound good

coloeb 06-25-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingordon (Post 5184214)
No I'm getting a resonator delete. And no has explained to me what loosing back pressure does they just saying it. What does it mean?




Backpressure: The myth and why it's wrong.

I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Engines need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6 cylinder has 6 pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your powerband is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your powerband is located at 8-9000RPM.

Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.

IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Engines need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to uprade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the powerband. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.

V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).

colingordon 06-25-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloeb (Post 5185529)
Backpressure: The myth and why it's wrong.

I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Engines need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6 cylinder has 6 pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your powerband is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your powerband is located at 8-9000RPM.

Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.

IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Engines need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to uprade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the powerband. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.

V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).

So to sum all of that up, straight pipes are good because they eliminate back pressure more then a muffler?

JohnnyBfromPeoria 06-25-2012 01:26 PM

Straight pipes CAN be good, just not too big in diameter.

John B.

colingordon 06-25-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromPeoria (Post 5186283)
Straight pipes CAN be good, just not too big in diameter.

John B.

i was just gonna get 2.5" pipes, is that good? I was gonna go any higher then 3"

coloeb 06-30-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingordon (Post 5186093)
So to sum all of that up, straight pipes are good because they eliminate back pressure more then a muffler?

Actually the muffler installs back pressure as does the cats and any other restrictions in the exhaust. The trick seems to be getting the back pressure as low as possible while maintaining the proper exhaust gas velocity. It seems unlikely anyone could get this correct without testing these 2 variables.

KMPrenger 06-30-2012 01:37 PM

Magnaflow resonated X pipe used in place of the stock H pipe, with stock resonators in place, and the mufflers deleted is not a bad setup.

Go for it.

Its when you do a real straight pipe setup is when (in my opinion) it no longer sounds very good.

Texas_RS 02-28-2013 05:56 PM

Anyone have video or sound clip of just magnaflow resonated x-pipe and straight pipes?

Hayden 02-28-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_RS (Post 6221911)
Anyone have video or sound clip of just magnaflow resonated x-pipe and straight pipes?

X2, Like an actual GOOD video. Not a low quality iPhone video. :mad0260:

Texas_RS 03-01-2013 10:56 AM

:popcorn:

Austin45 03-01-2013 12:45 PM

Like the lengthy explanation of back pressure above, it is rather amazing how so many people have come to think we need it. After all, exhausts are designed for exhaust to leave the engine, not put them back into it.

As far as straight pipes go, I have them, love them, and they sound amazing. They definitely do not sound rice, at all.

KMPrenger 03-01-2013 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_RS (Post 6221911)
Anyone have video or sound clip of just magnaflow resonated x-pipe and straight pipes?

Yes...check the exhaust sticky in the LLT section.

Henry G. 03-01-2013 04:29 PM

Listen to the Corsa's on the Dyno VS MRT thread, they sound bad ass. On a manual car, they would sound even better.

crk5600 03-05-2013 01:34 PM

I added the X pipe left the stock res and straight piped out. My guy that does my inspections in PA said I won't have a problem passing inspection because I have all stock cats and res and basically just removed the rear mufflers and replaced them with the x pipe. I have read some people with this same setup went back and removed the resignators and weren't happy with the sound. Removing them defeated the purpose of the X pipe and reintroduced rasp

JohnS1991 03-11-2013 06:17 PM

Hey guys! I have a 2013 Camaro 2LS with LFX engine. I got a muffler delete and straight pipes with stock tips done today. I like it at full throttle, but theres definately some drone at lower rpms and to me it is;nt enough rumble in the sound. I still have stock everything else like cats, resonator, h pipe, etc... What do you all suggest I do next? Should I get rid of stock resonators and put in resonated x pipe, should I just get rid of stock h pipe and put in an x pipe, what can I do to make sound better now? Thanks in advance! I am so bent out of shape over this exhaust thing! Just trying to make my v6 sound good, without spending a million bucks, i'm sure you guys understand:)

IneedAZ 03-14-2013 03:01 PM

Any of u guys have fitment issues with the Magnaflow 11386 resonated Xpipe? Any rattles? Got under the car today and noticed its very tight area. What about the crossmember?


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