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-   -   Newbie at the drags, help me beat Mustangs (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244712)

Fraxum 08-17-2012 11:19 PM

Newbie at the drags, help me beat Mustangs
 
I have to admit that back in the day I was a very amateur street racer. Kids and witnessing horrendous accidents cured me. But tonight years later,I finally went to where the real racers go, the drag strip. I have wanted to do this for a while, but what pushed me into it now is my local Camaro club is running a drag strip challenge with the local Mustang club. I need to represent.

So at the Test and Tune tonight I think I had the fastest car on street tires but I guess it was a slow Friday night at Atco. My driving was not the fastest but when I pulled up to this beautiful orange Challenger R/T the guy came over and shouted in my window. "I will not line up against you!" It made me chuckle.

And I had a few fans from the stands coming up to me saying I was driving the hell out of my car. It must be the orange stripes on the car. And my exhaust, while not all that loud makes a really strong sound.

As I said a slow night. But fun! I even had a 12 year old junior driver dragster driver giving me launching tips. Listening to him got my RT to under a second.

But I need more advice. I think I have the middle of the track down with clean shifting, breaking loose a little shifting to second and third. My problems are at the line and the big end. I posted my best time slip tonight and my first drag run ever below. On that first run I had no idea where the traps were and I let off early. Later I learned to look for the win light. I won all but 2 races. This was the car and not me.

This was a very humid night, right before a storm, at about 80 degrees.

Off the line my best 60 foot was 2.163. Some were so bad I will never post those slips. With stock tires and a slippery track what is the best way to leave? This best 60 foot was leaving at 1500 with only a little slippage and no bogging. Should I go to higher rpms with more slip? Will my clutch survive? From what I have read here if I can get to 2 flat that is about the best that can be done with sock tires and those SUV wheels.

On the traps I was hitting the rev limiter about a second before I saw the win light. So with my bolton mods, is the best bet to shift to 4th say around 6,000 rpm?

The MPH at the traps was the same on every good run, right at 110 mph. A car with my mods should trap higher, so I guess 4th is a must.

And my 13.370 best ET is sad since I know my car should do better. Even though I am am disappointed at my ETs, it was a fun night. I want to get to another T&T night before the club meet.

One more thing I just noticed, that white BMW 335i coupe (car (113) that ate my lunch on my first run ever was watching Camaro taillights receding on my best run. Justice was served.

http://www.stutzbach.com/camaro/Atco001.jpg

SGT Stretch 08-18-2012 12:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I drop TP to 25psi on my stock tires and give them a light haze burnout. Just enough to start the smoke.

A tune would do you wonders for your ET's. You probably don't want to do it but just sayin.
I usually launch between 2300-2500 and let out the clutch a lot similar to leaving quickly at a stop light

Also I feel your pain on the rev limiter at the stripe so I started shifting to 4th.

I'm still a beginner myself but talking to people here and at the track like you have has helped alot. Here is my fast slip from doing these. This is my fastest time to date. And a short video of beating a mustang lol.

I'm car #396

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUx...e_gdata_player

Hope some of this helps and gives you an idea of where you will be with a tune.

Rcfiddy1 08-18-2012 02:10 AM

CAnt help with your shifting but I would also raise my front tires a few above max. Also try getting use to leaving on the 3rd yellow, it wont hekp your et but it will get you gout of the hole before the other guy. Dont smoke the stock tires too much or they get slippery.

Fraxum 08-18-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT Stretch (Post 5459934)
I drop TP to 25psi on my stock tires and give them a light haze burnout. Just enough to start the smoke.

A tune would do you wonders for your ET's. You probably don't want to do it but just sayin.
I usually launch between 2300-2500 and let out the clutch a lot similar to leaving quickly at a stop light

Also I feel your pain on the rev limiter at the stripe so I started shifting to 4th.

I'm still a beginner myself but talking to people here and at the track like you have has helped alot. Here is my fast slip from doing these. This is my fastest time to date. And a short video of beating a mustang lol.

I'm car #396

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUx...e_gdata_player

Hope some of this helps and gives you an idea of where you will be with a tune.

Thanks. Nice! You beat that faster Mustang with your RT! I need more practice. And I like your MPH. What are your mods? Stock tires?

At Atco you have to drive through the water. So I was spinning the tires for a second or so.

Good point about lowering tire pressure. I forgot to do that. And from doing more reading here you can get below 2 seconds on the 60 foot with stock tires.

No tune for now. Still trying to hang on to my warranty. I should be able to see times likes yours with more practice and a better DA.

Fraxum 08-18-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1 (Post 5460083)
CAnt help with your shifting but I would also raise my front tires a few above max. Also try getting use to leaving on the 3rd yellow, it wont hekp your et but it will get you gout of the hole before the other guy. Dont smoke the stock tires too much or they get slippery.

Thsnks. I will try that too. I suppose I also could ditch my spare tire and my Amp/Sub box. And lose some weight.

SGT Stretch 08-18-2012 11:51 AM

Dropping easy weight like a spare or sub box is a good idea.

My mods are tsp long tubes, CAI intake scoop and washer relocation, Hurst short throw, muffler delete. And yes that was all on stock rubber.

The time slip pictured was me vs a cammed vette..the mustang races were in the video I linked.

Medi0cr3 08-18-2012 07:31 PM

I had a bad night as well last night. I was over focused and forgot to do a lot of things. I did some good burn outs on the stock perelli p-zeros to clean them off. I remember last weekend I was around 2.3k RPM as well and it took off very clean and no wheel hop or bogging and @ 30psi in the tires. Seemed to work out well.. Last night I tried 25 PSI and had some issues with longer burn outs and the tires not grabbing as well as they should at the start... I saw a post about letting the clutch out like your getting off of a green light at a traffic intersection was a pretty good idea and I'm confident i did something like that last weekend. I'm pretty concerned with my RT as well. Any ideas?

SGT Stretch 08-18-2012 07:51 PM

RT really has nothing to do with anything unless you plan on doing bracket or heads up racing. But if that's something your looking into then leaving on the third yellow is what you gotta do. If you see green before you let out your late.

I've spent the better part of the last couple months getting to know some of the guys here and even just talking to the random "pros" at the track all these have helped me a lot. Maybe @ the 25 psi mark you were burning the tires just a little much. Just give em a nice light haze just enough to spin the dirt off. Sometimes they smoke ever so slightly when I do it sometimes they don't.

SGT Stretch 08-18-2012 07:57 PM

Were you driving through or around the water box? I always go around and have the track official back me up to just the edge where it is damp or wet but no standing water and that is where I start my burnout. The stock tires will pick up a lot of that water and keep it not to mention your front tires will do the same.

Just go around it until your on radials and skinnys. When I get my radials on I still plan on going around but backing into the box to get them wet rolling forward then doing my burnout.

Fraxum 08-18-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT Stretch (Post 5462402)
Were you driving through or around the water box? I always go around and have the track official back me up to just the edge where it is damp or wet but no standing water and that is where I start my burnout. The stock tires will pick up a lot of that water and keep it not to mention your front tires will do the same.

Just go around it until your on radials and skinnys. When I get my radials on I still plan on going around but backing into the box to get them wet rolling forward then doing my burnout.

At Atco (very close to my house) you have to drive through the water. As a result they have to keep mopping the approach to the lights. I do spin the tires a little to get most of the water off but I am sure I am picking up more as the street cars don't always warm up the tires. It really seems too easy to spin the tires on the launch. Maybe 28 PSI will help.

Rock36 08-19-2012 05:12 AM

In addition to the above tips on launching, you are going to have to go into 4th. Bouncing off the rev limiter is definitely leaving a tenth or two and a mph or two on the table.

You might try short shifting into 4th at 6k like you suggested and note the results next time you are out, but hitting the rev limiter is costing you both E/T and mph.

Also, I'm going to guess you are leaving some time with your shifting in general maybe another tenth or so. Your 2.1 60' isn't that bad, and if you believe one tenth improvement in the 60ft equals a two tenth improvement in E/T (this rule of thumb was never true for me ever), then going to a more respectable 1.9 60ft on streets would only put you at about a 12.9/13.0...again assuming the rule of thumb is true.

If you had a video I could tell you if your rpms were hanging too long between shifts.

Fraxum 08-19-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock36 (Post 5463534)
In addition to the above tips on launching, you are going to have to go into 4th. Bouncing off the rev limiter is definitely leaving a tenth or two and a mph or two on the table.

You might try short shifting into 4th at 6k like you suggested and note the results next time you are out, but hitting the rev limiter is costing you both E/T and mph.

Also, I'm going to guess you are leaving some time with your shifting in general maybe another tenth or so. Your 2.1 60' isn't that bad, and if you believe one tenth improvement in the 60ft equals a two tenth improvement in E/T (this rule of thumb was never true for me ever), then going to a more respectable 1.9 60ft on streets would only put you at about a 12.9/13.0...again assuming the rule of thumb is true.

If you had a video I could tell you if your rpms were hanging too long between shifts.

Thanks! Yes I will try the short shift to 4th. I was by myself so no videos, maybe I will bring some fans next time. And even though I thought my shifting was tight, (but of this I am not 100% sure) i did slightly let off the throttle especially going into second. If I hit second too hard I can get too much spin. I just get a slight bark going into third.

On my worst pass, other than my first bundle of nerves, I left too hard and spent too much time spinning. This threw me off and I missed second to add to my misery. A rather quick Honda Civic blew me off. I lined up against him a second time, but I think he broke on the line.

Rock36 08-20-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum (Post 5466086)
Thanks! Yes I will try the short shift to 4th. I was by myself so no videos, maybe I will bring some fans next time. And even though I thought my shifting was tight, (but of this I am not 100% sure) i did slightly let off the throttle especially going into second. If I hit second too hard I can get too much spin. I just get a slight bark going into third.

On my worst pass, other than my first bundle of nerves, I left too hard and spent too much time spinning. This threw me off and I missed second to add to my misery. A rather quick Honda Civic blew me off. I lined up against him a second time, but I think he broke on the line.

I realize I left an incomplete thought on my last post.

What I meant was if you improve your 60' to a ~1.9 on streets and still end up with a 12.9/13.0 @ 110+ mph, that would tell me somewhere time is being left on the table, because your trap speed is still high. Most likely this is because you're hitting the limiter, so your shifting might be tight in all actuality. Where to short shift 4th might be a little bit of trial and error.

It also helps to write notes on your time slips for stuff like this. Writing launch rpms, where you are shifting into 4th etc, can help you isolate the effects of different things you try.

Fraxum 08-22-2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock36 (Post 5466531)
I realize I left an incomplete thought on my last post.

What I meant was if you improve your 60' to a ~1.9 on streets and still end up with a 12.9/13.0 @ 110+ mph, that would tell me somewhere time is being left on the table, because your trap speed is still high. Most likely this is because you're hitting the limiter, so your shifting might be tight in all actuality. Where to short shift 4th might be a little bit of trial and error.

It also helps to write notes on your time slips for stuff like this. Writing launch rpms, where you are shifting into 4th etc, can help you isolate the effects of different things you try.

Thanks! I went back again last night, but even though I stayed to the end I got only four passes. :(

MY shifting rhythm and 60 foot were both off from my last time. However my ETs stayed about the same (13.3-13-8) and the shift into 4th cost me 2 MPH @ 108. The air was better and the temps were in the 70s. I also ditched my spare tire and the crap in my trunk. All in all I was disappointed in me. MY only improvement was in my RTs which were .5 or less. Still room to improve there. 3rd yellow. 3rd yellow. 3rd yellow.

I plan to go to the T&T Friday night and work on my launch. I was thinking I would try the Launch Control to become more consistent. Then once I have the rest worked out come back and work on a clean manual launch. However after reading more about it I think not.


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