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-   -   Long Tube Headers Options @ Apex Motorsports! The #1 Source For Performance Exhaust! (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245173)

Apex Motorsports 08-20-2012 05:45 PM

Long Tube Headers Options @ Apex Motorsports! The #1 Source For Performance Exhaust!
 
http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/wp-c...ds/headers.jpg


Selecting long tube headers can be an intimidating task and does require some technical knowledge, but it isn’t the voodoo some make it out to be. In this post I will try to arm you with as much information as I can to help you decide on the best option for you and your ride. Below I will provide some technical info and lay out some of the options available at APEX Motorsports. If you have any questions feel free to give us a call at (502)930-APEX or CLICK HERE send an email to one of our team members.


Which Manufacturer Should I Go With?

The good news here is that this is hard to get wrong. Ask around on the forums and you will hear some of the same brand names over and over again. The 3 brands that we currently carry that meet the criteria below are Kooks, ARH, Pfadt, Stainless Works, and Stainless Power. From a performance stand point all of them are pretty close, no one has a secret that makes one brand produce substantially better results than any of the others. It’s mostly a question of quality and, again, most of them are pretty close in this area as well. There are a couple of things to pay close attention to though.

Pay attention to what they are made from. Stainless steel (particularly 304) is what you will want to look for. 304 stainless steel will not rust or discolor from exposure to the atmosphere like the cheaper 400 series stainless steel. Unlike aluminized steel, it will not rust from the inside out due to the corrosive fluids produced during combustion. 304 can discolor slightly from getting extremely hot or if you spill engine oil on them but another attribute is that it isn’t permanent.

Pay attention to how they are made. CNC mandrel bending is the best manufacturing method for producing exhaust systems and headers that flow and fit well. When this process is used in conjunction with the 304 stainless steel it allows for the use of a thinner wall tubing that will weigh less than other headers. Those weight savings will be lost, however, if you opt for the ceramic coating some manufacturer promote. With stainless steel the coating isn’t needed for corrosion resistance purposes (ceramic coating is often pushed because the manufacture is using inferior metal) and I have never seen the claimed reductions in under hood temperature demonstrated in hard numbers.


What Primary Diameter Should I Go With?

This is the area that seems to cause the most confusion but it is fairly straight forward. Header manufacturers usually offer two or three options when is comes to primary diameters for a specific vehicle. For example, for the Camaro SS most manufacturers are offering 1 3/4 inch, 1 7/8 inch, and 2 inch primaries. Here are the results of some recent back-to-back testing on an otherwise stock SS:


Stock: 372 RWHP 376 RWTQ
1 3/4 headers with high flow cats: 401 RWHP 404 RWTQ
1 7/8 headers with high flow cats: 408 RWHP 409 RWTQ
2 headers with high flow cats: 413 RWHP 410 RWTQ


As you can see, simply switching from the restrictive stock manifolds to 1 3/4 long tube headers is worth approximately 30 RWHP and 30 RWTQ on a bone stock Camaro SS. The larger the primary diameter gets the more air the headers will flow and the further up the RPM range the power band is moved. The impact of the larger primary diameters is amplified the more powerful the engine is, especially when you introduce forced induction. This means that generally the more power you make or the more race oriented your application is the bigger primary diameter you need, the closer to stock or the more street oriented the smaller primary diameter you need.

In the specific example of the 2010+ Camaro SS, we have found that the 1 7/8 long tube headers are the best all around header for the typical bolt on modified car that is driven regularly and occasionally taken to the track. They offer a tremendous improvement over stock with room to grow as owners modify their car further. The 2 inch headers offer very similar numbers to the 1 7/8 headers up to 5000 RPM where the 2 inch headers pull ahead. They are ideal for those running forced induction or for race applications.


Tri-Y Headers

Pfadt recently announced that they are releasing Tri-Y headers for the 5th Gen Camaro and since then we have been inundated with questions about this type of design. Traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers merge all four primary tubes into a single collector similar to the one pictured below.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...5&d=1294546495


Tri-Y headers utilize a different approach. These headers feature three Y-pipes that merge the runners in pairs. Because of this they are sometimes also referred to as 4-into-2-into-1 headers. The Pfadt Tri-Ys are very elegant and because of that the differences are difficult to see in photos so below is a very rudimentary set of Tri-Y headers and a set of traditional 4-into-1 style long tube headers below that for a direct comparison. You can see that there are three separate events rather than one as is the case with a traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers.

http://clearimageautomotive.com/Chev..._Passenger.jpg
http://www.haddadmotorsports.com/cat...es/KooksG8.jpg


Now that you know what Tri-Y header are, the question is what is the difference from a performance perspective. The commonly accepted theory is that 4-into-1 long tube headers offer stronger peak horsepower gains, while the Tri-Y headers produce stronger low and mid-range torque gains (ideal for street performance).


High Flow Cats or Cat Delete (Off Road Pipe)

With modern high flow cats there is essentially no performance advantage to a cat delete. They flow 99.9% as well as straight pipe. On a dyno you might see 1-3 rwhp in the mid RPM range. Going with a cat delete does cost less but the biggest draw back for street driven cars in my opinion is the rotten egg smell of running without cats. The other is the potential legal issues. For track cars neither of these are a concern so save the money and apply it elsewhere.

Apex Motorsports 08-20-2012 05:47 PM

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/fea...8a2e54f8d8.jpg

The wait is finally over for the 5th Generation Camaro and without hesitation, A.R.H. has what you need to exhaust the beast within. 100% U.S. made long tube 304 S/S header systems that are designed to fit great, install easily, and produce outstanding horsepower and torque. The system comes with everything you'd expect from A.R.H. Includes 3/8" thick flanges with tig welded and hand ported inlets, merge collectors with scavenger spikes, OEM style band clamps, Grade 8 hardware, Flat Out Racing Gaskets and O2 extension harness.


1 7/8 inch primary factory connect headers

American Racing Stainless Steel Headers 1-7/8" x 3" Short System With Cats: $1425 SHIPPED!!!

American Racing Stainless Steel Headers 1-7/8" x 3" Short System Without Cats: $1305 SHIPPED!!!


2 inch primary factory connect headers

American Racing Stainless Steel Headers 2" x 3" Short System With Cats: $1525 SHIPPED!!!

American Racing Stainless Steel Headers 2" x 3" Short System Without Cats: $1405 SHIPPED!!!


Call for more options.

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/det...796_header.jpg

Apex Motorsports 08-20-2012 05:48 PM

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven.../SSW_logo2.jpg

Gain performance, sound, and mileage with Stainless Works' 2010+ Camaro Headers. Stainless Works Camaro headers are made from high-quality 304 stainless steel and are CNC mandrel bent. Designed and manufactured in Ohio, these headers are the top of the line in performance upgrades.




1 7/8 inch primary factory connect headers

Stainless Works Headers, 1 7/8" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats: $1242 SHIPPED

Stainless Works Headers, 1 7/8" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Off Road Pipes: $972 SHIPPED


2 inch primary factory connect headers

Stainless Works Headers, 2" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats: $1242 SHIPPED

Stainless Works Headers, 2" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Off Road Pipes: $972 SHIPPED


Call for more options.

http://www.stainlessworks.net/media/...drconfig_1.jpg

Apex Motorsports 08-20-2012 05:49 PM

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven...POWER_logo.jpg

Stainless Power 2010+ Camaro 6.2L 304L SS Header (Headers Only): $599 SHIPPED

Stainless Power 10-12 Camaro 6.2L 304L SS Header w/ Off Road Pipes: $699 SHIPPED

Stainless Power 2010+ Camaro 6.2L 304L SS Header w/ Cats: $899 SHIPPED


Stainless Works has introduced a new brand of value-line header and exhaust products made for the high-quality market, yet specially priced for the cost conscious consumer. Stainless Power is a brand name line of exhaust products that has been designed and manufactured to the exacting standards made famous by Stainless Works. These products are exclusively made and inspected to their exact specifications and made from the highest quality 304L Stainless Steel.

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven...erheaders1.jpg
http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven...erfeatures.jpg
http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven...spowerdyno.jpg

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/ven...erheaders2.jpg

MikeMoach 08-20-2012 06:35 PM

Thanks for the info, so arh are not mandrel bent?

Apex Motorsports 08-21-2012 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMoach (Post 5469700)
Thanks for the info, so arh are not mandrel bent?

No problem. All three listed above are 304 stainless steel and CNC mandrel bent.

MikeMoach 08-21-2012 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex Chase (Post 5471689)
No problem. All three listed above are 304 stainless steel and CNC mandrel bent.

Oh didn't see it in the ARH right up

K32 Camaro 08-22-2012 05:04 AM

I am going FI and want the 2" for that reason. At the same time I want to keep the car as quiet as possible. Is there a volume difference in any of these? Such as the SP being "extra thick", any volume advantage?

Apex Motorsports 08-22-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K32 Camaro (Post 5476382)
I am going FI and want the 2" for that reason. At the same time I want to keep the car as quiet as possible. Is there a volume difference in any of these? Such as the SP being "extra thick", any volume advantage?

No. The tone will vary slightly but the volume will not be much different due to the headers themselves. High flow cats will be a little quieter than cat deletes but the cat back will have the biggest impact on the overall volume.

Apex Motorsports 08-23-2012 04:02 PM

Members of the forums we sponsor have become accustomed to reading quotes like these on a regular basis.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroNewb (Post 2360787)
+1 for Chase. I bought these form him like 2 weeks ago and they were at my door so fast that I couldn't figure out what they were until I opened the box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious (Post 5202262)
Ordered mine on Friday had it Monday. Ordered a washer relocation tank Wednesday. Had it on Friday. Just like a Camaro, fast!

Quote:

Originally Posted by puzzzeler (Post 4968230)
I would have to agree Apex for sure really fast shipping these guys are on the ball ,give them a shot you cant go wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikester0612 (Post 5098788)
And I just wanted to give a big thanks to Apex Motorsports for the great service. Ordered this CAI on Wednesday in the afternoon around 1 and I got it on Friday !! Thanks Apex !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBobGuptaMarley (Post 4609243)
So I ordered Friday night. Order went through on Monday, intake was installed Wednesday after I got of work. Shipping was fast and free and that's why I love ordering from Apex!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andys562 (Post 4864687)
Just got the springs in today! Planning on getting them installed a little later today or tomorrow.

But wow! Apex ships FAST. I did NOT expect the springs to be on my doorstep today and what do you know, they're right there.
Big ups to Apex for the lightning fast shipping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ark5thGenGirl (Post 3742223)
First of all I want to give a big thank you to Chase and Victoria from Apex Speed. I needed this part on Friday and I ordered it Wednesday; they called me personally to handle my request and got it to me really fast. They were great to work with and I really appreciate the awesome customer service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfm237 (Post 4468982)
Ordered the SW Retro Chambered exhaust and Black CAI on Monday.. The Exhaust arrived on Wednesday and the CAI on thursday... Thats to New Jersey.. A+++ To Apex for their quick shipping!

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Muscle (Post 1855055)
apex chase, Hurst shifter got delivered today, took only 2 days to get to CT!! Going to install it tonight, thanks for the fast service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boricat (Post 1926169)
Unbelievable!!
Ordered on 5/28 on the doorstep 5/29!!

Thanks again,
Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritcherc (Post 4575496)
I sent Chase a couple of emails, told him what I wanted and a few days later it was on my doorstep. Chase and Apex have been a pleasure to deal with and I couldn't be happier in my decision to do business with them. Great product support, easy to get ahold of and fast shipping!!!! Two thumbs up in my book! Thanks, Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackjack's Girl (Post 2128657)
Thank you so much Chase! Ordered my CAI intake Sunday, shipped Monday and got it yesterday and installed! Great service! Love the performance! 1000% satisfied!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrrod6410 (Post 2657755)
Ordered mine Friday afternoon and got it Tuesday morning......WOW

Now I'm off to install it

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS CAMARO (Post 2552843)
Talk about fast shipping I got 1 day after you shipped it .

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBOSS (Post 2512295)
Chase I am truly impressed! Ordered my Pfadt drop springs Sunday night and got them early Wednesday morning! A truly unexpected delivery which made my day!

Now to find a time to throw them on!

Thanks again, I am VERY impressed!!


How Do We Do It?

From the beginning, our operation was set up to function as rapidly and efficiently as possible. Most of our order processing system is automated which means that an order can be completely processed and ready for pick up within minutes of the order being placed. Unlike many of our competitors, APEX Motorsports is a stocking distributor for most of the brands we carry and not a dedicated drop shipper. This allows us to ship in stock items the same day or next if the order is received after our last pick up. In the event that an item is out of stock, APEX Motorsports has access to multiple extensive distributor networks and can draw on the inventories of dozens of regional warehouses across the country and ship the item from the warehouse closest to you.

APEX Motorsports has another key advantage over our competition. Our physical location. Like Amazon, Zappos, and many other major shippers APEX Motorsports is located in Louisville, Ky. which places us within 600 miles of more than 60% of the United States population. It also places us only a few miles from the UPS World Hub. That means that once your order leaves our loading dock it doesn't have to travel 1-2 days to be processed before being directed to your address. It is done within hours of the order being placed and is on it's way to your door, more than 60% of which aren't very far down the road.

Below is a map displaying the estimated delivery times for orders shipped from APEX Motorsports.

http://www.apex-speed.com/images/shipmap.gif

03Amputee 08-28-2012 02:42 AM

Stainless Works 3" Cat Back Exhaust w/ Turbo S-Tube Mufflers CA10CBLLMF and Stainless Works Headers, 2" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats CA10HDRCAT. What are you able to do on these? I'm looking to buying them very soon. Thanks.

Apex Motorsports 08-28-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03Amputee (Post 5501714)
Stainless Works 3" Cat Back Exhaust w/ Turbo S-Tube Mufflers CA10CBLLMF and Stainless Works Headers, 2" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats CA10HDRCAT. What are you able to do on these? I'm looking to buying them very soon. Thanks.

PM replied to. Thank you for your order.

SS Cat 09-11-2012 08:44 PM

Any special package deal or military discount on this setup? Stainless Works Headers, 1 7/8" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats SSWCA11HDRCATST and Stainless Works 3" Retro Chambered Cat Back Exhaust CA11CB.

bigted83 09-11-2012 09:06 PM

Do u carry 2010 v6 long tube headers, if so send me a Im

Apex Motorsports 09-12-2012 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS Cat (Post 5563415)
Any special package deal or military discount on this setup? Stainless Works Headers, 1 7/8" Primaries, 3" Slip Fit Collectors w/ Cats SSWCA11HDRCATST and Stainless Works 3" Retro Chambered Cat Back Exhaust CA11CB.

PM sent

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigted83 (Post 5563555)
Do u carry 2010 v6 long tube headers, if so send me a Im

Yes we do. Here is a link.

sapperlite 09-22-2012 07:16 AM

Questions
 
Are their any issues installing SW 1 7/8" and cats on convertibles? Would I need any extra parts or brackets? Do you know if there are any cuts needed or will these bolt up to the stock exhaust? Any military discounts
Thanks. :)

Apex Motorsports 09-22-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapperlite (Post 5606845)
Are their any issues installing SW 1 7/8" and cats on convertibles? Would I need any extra parts or brackets? Do you know if there are any cuts needed or will these bolt up to the stock exhaust? Any military discounts
Thanks. :)

They will bolt right up to the convertible and the coupe. Here is a link to the set you would need. No extra parts needed.

Apex Motorsports 10-30-2012 08:34 PM

Thank you for a great start to the new week Camaro5!

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Krausmotorsports 11-02-2012 09:40 PM

??? for APEX I own not only a 2012 ss/rs but also a 2003 ss silverado. looking to run full length on the camaro 2" primary with 3" collector connecting to MBRP cat back.(sorry lol I like the sound of these) soon maybe a Xmas gift but do you carry the headers for the truck too? Although i'm undecided because it may be turbo charged in months to come. thanks

Apex Motorsports 11-03-2012 10:25 AM

Krausmotorsports, we do have headers for your application but not in those dimension. They are 1 3/4 primaries with 2.5 inch collectors. For most 6.0l application that is more that enough and we can include a connector to bolt up to 3 inch exhaust. They run $1390 shipped. We could look into a custom set if you had to have those dimensions though.

http://www.stainlessworks.net/media/.../T/CT6.0-3.JPG

Barryj2065 11-04-2012 02:28 PM

Thank you, very informative.

Apex Motorsports 11-05-2012 08:40 AM

No problem Barry. That is what I am here for.

Apex Motorsports 11-21-2012 09:29 PM

Happy Turkey Day!

Apex Motorsports 12-08-2012 03:19 PM

Thank you for your weekend orders Camaro5!

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...66394738_n.jpg

rberns 12-08-2012 09:42 PM

Nice write up. Question, are those dyno numbers with or without a tune? I am still looking right now, but will ceramic coated header stay cleaner in appearance longer than SS 304 or are they the same? Looking for something that stays clean and shiney in appearance for a long time.


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