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-   Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   M6 guys, what is the answer for us? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257032)

DarkneSS 10-22-2012 08:39 PM

M6 guys, what is the answer for us?
 
As I contemplate the performance future of my Camaro, I keep coming back to one problem.

The manual transmission on our 5th gen Camaros just is not up to the job.

Here is a fact for you, the stock tranny on these cars, is UNDER rated for the power output of the LLT.

All the M6 cars, except maybe the newest 2012s and 13s with the carbon syncros, ALL grind 1st to 2nd gear. If yours doesn't grind, you probably just cannot shift fast enough.

Any more power we make, generates more of a problem. The limit is right about what we can make with bolt ons.

All the m6 Forced Induction guys are having to replace their clutches. Clutch, I can understand, that is something that will need to be upgraded on every heavily modded car.


So what is the solution? A built tranny?

In addition, our gear ratios SUCK! 1st gear has a 4.48 ratio! The SS on the other hand has a 3.0! 4.48 is just too damn high! It makes the car a nightmare to launch and I have yet to see ANY M6 car pull better than a 2.0 60'. In fact, has any car done better than my 2.0? Which was on stock tires...


Help me out here people! How do we solve these problems?

Lil' Nasty 10-22-2012 08:52 PM

I would like to know this as well......I've never grinded even when shifting fast but anyways

a built tranny would be my guess....

:popcorn:

camaro-21 10-22-2012 09:04 PM

new clutch, carbon synchros, idealg master cylinder and remote clutch resevoir is wat im doing and ill update on how that helps

DarkneSS 10-22-2012 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro-21 (Post 5724819)
new clutch, carbon synchros, idealg master cylinder and remote clutch resevoir is wat im doing and ill update on how that helps

Definitely keep us posted. Where are you getting the synchros from?

camaro-21 10-22-2012 09:10 PM

i got them from the dealership. you just have to make sure they order the updated ones since they changed them earlier this year

Yellow_Glide 10-22-2012 09:27 PM

Anyone consider an out right swap?

Ventmaster 10-22-2012 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro-21 (Post 5724841)
i got them from the dealership. you just have to make sure they order the updated ones since they changed them earlier this year

Have you got part #'s? I've heard rumors, but not gonna believe it til I see it. Yes, please keep us posted.

Also, do you plan to have the dealer do the re-build or a local shop?

I've just added the IDEALG mod and the NH-SS fix for Hurst's shifter bushings. I want to re-bleed the master cylinder once more before I hit the 1-2 shift hard again- I figure we've got just a few of those grinds before the 2nd gear synchro is toast and nothing will fix it but a new one.

I'll hammer it by this weekend and report back.

Totally agree DarkneSS, the tranny has been the only part of this car I'm beginning to think cannot be fixed to my satisfaction. It pisses me off just about every time I drive.

I'm planning to stay N/A, so output is not one of my issues- but I was expecting to cam, etc.. But if I can't enjoy shifting, well what's the point?! :mad0259:

hunterv6 10-22-2012 09:56 PM

Part numbers if you can get them in the process of building mine so far spec clutch and flywheel.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

camaro-21 10-22-2012 10:00 PM

i got the box at home so ill give you guys the part number

DarkneSS 10-22-2012 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro-21 (Post 5724841)
i got them from the dealership. you just have to make sure they order the updated ones since they changed them earlier this year

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro-21 (Post 5725044)
i got the box at home so ill give you guys the part number

Please please please post paper work! Block out your personal info we just want to data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Glide (Post 5724909)
Anyone consider an out right swap?

I would but what the hell could we swap for? The SS M6 tranny won't fit right?

Crazy but it seems like a reasonable option would be to swap out for the A6 tranny from the V6 cars, reattain the rear end off the manual, and get the auto tranny completely built to be bullet proof for FI power levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ventmaster (Post 5724975)
Have you got part #'s? I've heard rumors, but not gonna believe it til I see it. Yes, please keep us posted.

Also, do you plan to have the dealer do the re-build or a local shop?

I've just added the IDEALG mod and the NH-SS fix for Hurst's shifter bushings. I want to re-bleed the master cylinder once more before I hit the 1-2 shift hard again- I figure we've got just a few of those grinds before the 2nd gear synchro is toast and nothing will fix it but a new one.

I'll hammer it by this weekend and report back.

Totally agree DarkneSS, the tranny has been the only part of this car I'm beginning to think cannot be fixed to my satisfaction. It pisses me off just about every time I drive.

I'm planning to stay N/A, so output is not one of my issues- but I was expecting to cam, etc.. But if I can't enjoy shifting, well what's the point?! :mad0259:

That is what I'm worried about and I told the tech that works on my car at my dealer. He just put his hands up in a shrugging action and said that on the bright side, if it does break, just bring it in and since it is under warranty they will fix it.

After seeing our boy run a 12.1 in the V6 1/4 thread I really want to go FI but the tranny is stopping me. I'm not spending a cent more on performance until I feel comfortable about this tranny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunterv6 (Post 5725029)
Part numbers if you can get them in the process of building mine so far spec clutch and flywheel.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Flywheel and clutch are great but they don't solve the tranny problem unfortunately.

'11CamaroLS 10-23-2012 02:26 AM

i would like to know what we can do also, i have never felt an actual grind going into second, but i know that it just doesnt feel good going into second at higher rpms. my problem i have is sometimes it just wont go into first. its like it goes a little bit in but not all the way. so i put it back to netural and try again, and most time it takes more then 3 tries to get it into 1st or i say screw it and throw it into second to take off in. If im not in a hurry cause im at a light when i put it into netural i pump the clutch a few times, and it does seem to help, or maybe its just a coincidence or just needed a break before i try again lol i dont know. its done that i think most the time ive owned this car, so it may be a clutch issue more then a tranny. :iono: either way the tranny for sure is the weak link here for manuals. i mean freaking toyotas use the ay6 lol i think with all the factory goodies we got like IRS, and LSD they would give us a better tranny lol.

midnighter 10-23-2012 02:31 AM

I've never ground 2nd gear but I did bake some clutch learning to power brake/ peel out in a manual for the first time in this car. :facepalm:

twmotox 10-23-2012 07:54 AM

I have a 2013 and its much smoother than the 350z i had before

h2oplay 10-23-2012 11:35 AM

I did the ideal slave, gto res and changed the trans lube to amsoil, it's much better than before, a very rare crunch at the track, but you still can't shift these cars fast..... I shift around 64-6500 now since that's where peak torque drops off.

I'm toying with the idea of having a plate made so I can use a torqueflight 3 speed for the track.

h2oplay 10-23-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnighter (Post 5725981)
I've never ground 2nd gear but I did bake some clutch learning to power brake/ peel out in a manual for the first time in this car. :facepalm:


Refrain from using the brake for burnouts as it will break the clutches in the LSD, get a line lock....

h2oplay 10-23-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '11CamaroLS (Post 5725968)
i would like to know what we can do also, i have never felt an actual grind going into second, but i know that it just doesnt feel good going into second at higher rpms. my problem i have is sometimes it just wont go into first. its like it goes a little bit in but not all the way. so i put it back to netural and try again, and most time it takes more then 3 tries to get it into 1st or i say screw it and throw it into second to take off in. If im not in a hurry cause im at a light when i put it into netural i pump the clutch a few times, and it does seem to help, or maybe its just a coincidence or just needed a break before i try again lol i dont know. its done that i think most the time ive owned this car, so it may be a clutch issue more then a tranny. :iono: either way the tranny for sure is the weak link here for manuals. i mean freaking toyotas use the ay6 lol i think with all the factory goodies we got like IRS, and LSD they would give us a better tranny lol.


Sounds like the ideal g slave is for you, not enough fluid for proper disengagement. get the gto res too, I think it was about 15 bucks.

smoke1lt 10-23-2012 03:46 PM

My 60' times are 1.9xx ,clutch is holding up so far, i have smoked it a few times though.But yes the big problem with mine is 1st to 2nd shift.Trying to shift mine from 1st to 2nd under 9# of boost at 7,000 rpms is not good,i have been shifting mine just over 6k rpm and shifting slow losing alot of time.Will be watching to see if the new synchro's help.:thumbup:

CamaroV6 10-23-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkneSS (Post 5724724)
As I contemplate the performance future of my Camaro, I keep coming back to one problem.

The manual transmission on our 5th gen Camaros just is not up to the job.

Here is a fact for you, the stock tranny on these cars, is UNDER rated for the power output of the LLT.

All the M6 cars, except maybe the newest 2012s and 13s with the carbon syncros, ALL grind 1st to 2nd gear. If yours doesn't grind, you probably just cannot shift fast enough.

Any more power we make, generates more of a problem. The limit is right about what we can make with bolt ons.

All the m6 Forced Induction guys are having to replace their clutches. Clutch, I can understand, that is something that will need to be upgraded on every heavily modded car.


So what is the solution? A built tranny?

In addition, our gear ratios SUCK! 1st gear has a 4.48 ratio! The SS on the other hand has a 3.0! 4.48 is just too damn high! It makes the car a nightmare to launch and I have yet to see ANY M6 car pull better than a 2.0 60'. In fact, has any car done better than my 2.0? Which was on stock tires...


Help me out here people! How do we solve these problems?

Easy fix.....JET ENGINE!!!

Dave Coyle 10-23-2012 04:51 PM

Convert it over to and automatic, will solve all your problems!!! Easier to launch, easier on ALL your other parts and more consistant!!!

hunterv6 10-23-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Coyle (Post 5728299)
Convert it over to and automatic, will solve all your problems!!! Easier to launch, easier on ALL your other parts and more consistant!!!

And lose the fun factor no thanks

hunterv6 10-23-2012 06:34 PM

.[/QUOTE] Flywheel and clutch are great but they don't solve the tranny problem unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

They don't but that not why I asked. Since I will be replacing them transmission would be out of car so why not try to stop the grind.

twmotox 10-23-2012 08:09 PM

Im sure someone will be coming up with an adapter plate to install the ss m6 into the v6

DarkneSS 10-23-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunterv6 (Post 5728660)
And lose the fun factor no thanks

Word auto is indeed the better choice for drag racing but even with FI my car will never be a drag specific car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunterv6 (Post 5728691)
.

Flywheel and clutch are great but they don't solve the tranny problem unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

They don't but that not why I asked. Since I will be replacing them transmission would be out of car so why not try to stop the grind.[/QUOTE]

My bad read that wrong.

DarkneSS 10-23-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twmotox (Post 5729056)
Im sure someone will be coming up with an adapter plate to install the ss m6 into the v6

That would work...is it possible?

Yellow_Glide 10-23-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twmotox (Post 5729056)
Im sure someone will be coming up with an adapter plate to install the ss m6 into the v6

If the input shafts are the same thn it's a fairly straight forward deal.


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