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-   -   Camaro Z/28 is 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on Milford Road Course (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286713)

Bomino 04-02-2013 12:26 PM

Camaro Z/28 is 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on Milford Road Course
 


According to Mr. Wyndham's interview with John Fitzpatrick (LINK) the mysterious course where the z/28 proved to be 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 is the MRC, or Milford Road Course.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham (Post 6371594)
The 1LE already proved faster than the Boss 302, which is no longer sold anyways. So were you competing with anybody with the Z/28, or did you just want to show off?

Let me put it this way. The Z/28, in our initial testing at the Milford Road Course (MRC) is three seconds faster than the ZL1. The ZL1 beat the GT500 there by three seconds. You can do the math from there…


Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this course is owned by GM.

It is a 2.9 mile course with 18 turns..

http://image.vetteweb.com/f/40267934...rucible-02.jpg

I am having a hard time finding lap times for current production vehicles, but this gives us an idea of how much faster the Z/28 is than the ZL1.

brt3 04-02-2013 12:31 PM

THANKS for that; I was dying to know where they clocked this. This actually looks like a pretty killer track, with a good mix of high speed sections and tight turns.

Here's what I found on Milford:

CAR & DRIVER VISIT MILFORD

VETTE AT MILFORD

MONTOYA AT MILFORD

woodside783 04-02-2013 12:45 PM

You know there is video

Bomino 04-02-2013 12:48 PM

If the Z/28 is 3 seconds faster than ZL1 on a 2.9 mile course, the theoretically it would be about 4 seconds faster on VIR, a 4.1 mile course. of course this doesnt take into account the course differences themselves, so that could be an inaccurate number.

but, 3-4 seconds faster than the ZL1's 2:57.5 on VIR (C&D's Lightning Lap) means this car might be running with the c6 z06, porsche GT3 RS, GTR, etc...

GoldenBear 04-02-2013 01:06 PM

It would be interesting to see a map showing the speed, g's, and separation distance of the two vehicles at all appropriate locations on the Milford course.

Angrybird 12 04-02-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenBear (Post 6372265)
It would be interesting to see a map showing the speed, g's, and separation distance of the two vehicles at all appropriate locations on the Milford course.

Did you see the "Ghost Car" they had at Daytona Qualifying? It compared two cars positions on the track in the same video. It was neat seeing cars take different lines into the corners.

shaffe 04-02-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenBear (Post 6372265)
It would be interesting to see a map showing the speed, g's, and separation distance of the two vehicles at all appropriate locations on the Milford course.

This^ I would love to see that.

I would guess that the ZL-1 was faster on the straights with more HP, but the Z/28 is also a lot lighter so I would love to see the differences

Zfatuated 04-02-2013 01:24 PM

I can easily imagine 3 seconds gained on that course by the Trofeos alone. They are a 50 treadwear rating and the the rubber is made in the same single vat as Pirelli's race slicks (I know someone in their Motorsport Division).

So that makes me think that GM is sandbagging, in a good way and rightly so at this point, the true potential of this car. The weight loss could be good for .5 second, deeper braking 1-2 seconds, and the aero for another second.

This new Z/28 should easily run with GT3RS's and base Corvettes all day long.

tonyfred 04-02-2013 06:12 PM

I dont care if it was 30 seconds faster. No way I am paying more for a stripped down ZL1 than what I paid for a fully loaded one.

wildpaws 04-02-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfred (Post 6373518)
I dont care if it was 30 seconds faster. No way I am paying more for a stripped down ZL1 than what I paid for a fully loaded one.

:facepalm: :der: :facepalm: Obviously you do not understand this topic at all!
Clyde

GearheadSS 04-02-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfred (Post 6373518)
I dont care if it was 30 seconds faster. No way I am paying more for a stripped down ZL1 than what I paid for a fully loaded one.

A stripped down ZL1? :laughabove:

Have you even read anything about the Z/28?

KMPrenger 04-02-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyfred (Post 6373518)
I dont care if it was 30 seconds faster. No way I am paying more for a stripped down ZL1 than what I paid for a fully loaded one.

Either very ignorant, or we have a jealous ZL1 owner here.

brt3 04-02-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomino (Post 6372211)
If the Z/28 is 3 seconds faster than ZL1 on a 2.9 mile course, the theoretically it would be about 4 seconds faster on VIR, a 4.1 mile course. of course this doesnt take into account the course differences themselves, so that could be an inaccurate number.

but, 3-4 seconds faster than the ZL1's 2:57.5 on VIR (C&D's Lightning Lap) means this car might be running with the c6 z06, porsche GT3 RS, GTR, etc...

C'mon, Team Camaro -- I want to see this thing run at the Ring! This car is going to stun a LOT of folks once Chevy posts the video of it running the Nordschleife...

Mr. Wyndham 04-02-2013 09:42 PM

Should be interesting to see if they bring it to any tracks to publish lap times...they've still got all summer to do so....wouldn't surprise me. After all - this is a track car. ;)

sycraft 04-02-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zfatuated (Post 6372320)
I can easily imagine 3 seconds gained on that course by the Trofeos alone. They are a 50 treadwear rating and the the rubber is made in the same single vat as Pirelli's race slicks (I know someone in their Motorsport Division).

So that makes me think that GM is sandbagging, in a good way and rightly so at this point, the true potential of this car. The weight loss could be good for .5 second, deeper braking 1-2 seconds, and the aero for another second.

This new Z/28 should easily run with GT3RS's and base Corvettes all day long.

Tires good for 5000 miles at the most.....track days about 500-1000 miles

brt3 04-02-2013 10:46 PM

The ZL1 ran a 7:41.27 at the Nordschleife. A Corvette C6 Z06, with DOT competition tires and the Z07 package, ran 7:22.68. I'm betting the Z/28 ought to turn a 7:33 -- which would make it one of the fastest cars per dollar at The Ring...

Jim968 04-03-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brt3 (Post 6374793)
The ZL1 ran a 7:41.27 at the Nordschleife. A Corvette C6 Z06, with DOT competition tires and the Z07 package, ran 7:22.68. I'm betting the Z/28 ought to turn a 7:33 -- which would make it one of the fastest cars per dollar at The Ring...

If its really 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 around Milford then it should break 7:30 at the ring. A simple mathematical prediction based on track length yields 2:28.

Angrybird 12 04-03-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim968 (Post 6375915)
If its really 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 around Milford then it should break 7:30 at the ring. A simple mathematical prediction based on track length yields 2:28.

Good thing they don't race Calculators...

Really it's hard to translate one to the other just based on time and track length. You also need to consider length of straightaways and number and type corners. Each car will have areas they outperform the other in so its really impossible to estimate with any degree of accuracy the time comparison. It's still just a guess.

Zfatuated 04-03-2013 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brt3 (Post 6374793)
The ZL1 ran a 7:41.27 at the Nordschleife. A Corvette C6 Z06, with DOT competition tires and the Z07 package, ran 7:22.68. I'm betting the Z/28 ought to turn a 7:33 -- which would make it one of the fastest cars per dollar at The Ring...

It'll be interesting to find out eh? Anyone read what the cd of the car is? It looks pretty slippery? So, on the plus side, the 7.0 will give it speed on the straights which really helps with times there.

When you note "fastest cars per dollar" you really hit the nail on the head for the value proposition of this car.

Jim968 04-03-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 (Post 6376466)
Good thing they don't race Calculators...

Really it's hard to translate one to the other just based on time and track length. You also need to consider length of straightaways and number and type corners. Each car will have areas they outperform the other in so its really impossible to estimate with any degree of accuracy the time comparison. It's still just a guess.

100% agree, but until they run the car there guessing and calculating is the best we can do. I bet it will be mid summer at the earliest before they run the car there.

brt3 04-03-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim968 (Post 6376990)
100% agree, but until they run the car there guessing and calculating is the best we can do. I bet it will be mid summer at the earliest before they run the car there.

Gotta make sure it's warm for the best times, as that region is notoriously cool and rainy. I will be there in early July, and will be scanning "Bridge To Gantry" before I leave -- just in case the Chevy transporters arrive at the track while I'm there...

Bosse'sBoss 04-05-2013 05:33 PM

I think that the Z28 will be faster than any stock Corvette, except of the ZR1 or Z06 (Carbon edition)

DGthe3 04-05-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomino (Post 6372120)
According to Mr. Wyndham's interview with John Fitzpatrick (LINK) the mysterious course where the z/28 proved to be 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 is the MRC, or Milford Road Course.



Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this course is owned by GM.

It is a 2.9 mile course with 18 turns..

http://image.vetteweb.com/f/40267934...rucible-02.jpg

I am having a hard time finding lap times for current production vehicles, but this gives us an idea of how much faster the Z/28 is than the ZL1.

Yes, its owned by GM. Its their own private test track. They took elements from various courses from around the world and kinda wove them together. The idea is that if you can get a car to run well at Milford, it will run well anywhere.

avcbm 04-05-2013 10:27 PM

I’m thinking maybe depending on the track layout, the ZL1 and Z28 will trade wins, much like the 13 Shelby and ZL1…... although heavier the PTM will allow the ZL1 to be pushed harder with more confidence… and longer straights might be more to an advantage for the ZL1…. The ZL1 was faster than the Shelby in the curves, but the horsepower advantage in the straights would allow the Shelby to make up the time lost.

DGthe3 04-06-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avcbm (Post 6388622)
I’m thinking maybe depending on the track layout, the ZL1 and Z28 will trade wins, much like the 13 Shelby and ZL1…... although heavier the PTM will allow the ZL1 to be pushed harder with more confidence… and longer straights might be more to an advantage for the ZL1…. The ZL1 was faster than the Shelby in the curves, but the horsepower advantage in the straights would allow the Shelby to make up the time lost.

But the difference here is that in GT500 vs ZL1, the Ford had the 80 hp advantage and the 300 lb weight advantage giving it a substantial edge in a straight line. But vs the Z/28, the 80 extra hp has to move 300 lbs more car, reducing the impact of its power advantage (rather than enhancing it).
Sure, the ZL1 will still pull harder, but its not going to be as substantial a difference as it is between the GT500 and the ZL1.


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