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-   -   Highest HP n/a factory pony car in history? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287248)

carman II 04-04-2013 08:08 PM

Highest HP n/a factory pony car in history?
 
Given impending stringent CAFE standards, Ford and Dodge both moving to forced induction, and unless there is a HP surprise from the upcoming LT1, it would appear that the 2014 Z28 could be the highest HP n/a factory pony car in history.

Bhobbs 04-04-2013 08:14 PM

That depends entirely on where GM takes the Z/28 for the 6th gen. Rumor is the C7 Z06 will be keeping the naturally aspirated 7 liter but it will be LT based. That engine could end up in the 6th gen Z/28.

72MachOne99GT 04-04-2013 08:18 PM

Yes, it would certainly appear that way.

But also keep in mind you're not only limiting your 'class' to naturally aspirated, but also pony cars.

There are certainly more powerful pony cars, and more powerful N/A applications.. just when the two are teamed together you get *for now* the most powerful application....

Though, I would be inclined to guess some of the 64-70 era pony cars were RIGHT on the edge of a modern 500-550 hp rating...

Rocky1974 04-04-2013 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT (Post 6383455)
Though, I would be inclined to guess some of the 64-70 era pony cars were RIGHT on the edge of a modern 500-550 hp rating...

Not even close! The 70 LS6 454 Chevelle was the highest "rated" horsepower car of the muscle car era and that was 450 gross horsepower. If the Z/28 was rated in gross horse power, the number would be closer to 600 than 500.

Michael2000 04-04-2013 11:53 PM

Stock out of the showroom, I would say "yes" to the new Z/28.

However, the original all aluminum 427 ZL1 used in the 1969 Camaros equipped with long tube headers, no mufflers, and tuning (no cam change, though) was reported to put out 630 horsepower. I don't know what the current LS7 7.0L would put out in that configuration. I think it would be close, but I think I would give the edge to the 1969 ZL1.

Michael

DGthe3 04-05-2013 12:15 AM

Maybe, but who knows ... maybe there will be a 2017 LT7 powered Z28 with 600 hp out of a naturally aspirated 7L. If they only sell 1000 of them per year, the effect on CAFE will be next to nothing.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT (Post 6383455)
Yes, it would certainly appear that way.

But also keep in mind you're not only limiting your 'class' to naturally aspirated, but also pony cars.

There are certainly more powerful pony cars, and more powerful N/A applications.. just when the two are teamed together you get *for now* the most powerful application....

Though, I would be inclined to guess some of the 64-70 era pony cars were RIGHT on the edge of a modern 500-550 hp rating...

A lot of the 'underated 500 hp' monsters from the late muscle car era would be rated at something like 400 hp today. SAE gross vs SAE net.

Rock36 04-05-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3 (Post 6384464)
Maybe, but who knows ... maybe there will be a 2017 LT7 powered Z28 with 600 hp out of a naturally aspirated 7L. If they only sell 1000 of them per year, the effect on CAFE will be next to nothing.
A lot of the 'underated 500 hp' monsters from the late muscle car era would be rated at something like 400 hp today. SAE gross vs SAE net.

Yep, some of those cars were "underrated" on an "overrated" system so to speak. :biggrin:

Seriously though, I would love to know what some of the classics would be rated under the current SAE standards for certification.

Bhobbs 04-05-2013 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock36 (Post 6384597)
Yep, some of those cars were "underrated" on an "overrated" system so to speak. :biggrin:

Seriously though, I would love to know what some of the classics would be rated under the current SAE standards for certification.

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...s/viewall.html

DGthe3 04-05-2013 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock36 (Post 6384597)
Yep, some of those cars were "underrated" on an "overrated" system so to speak. :biggrin:

Seriously though, I would love to know what some of the classics would be rated under the current SAE standards for certification.

Yeah, some of the games played back then would be down right laughable under todays standards. Many of the things you could do to 'free up' power were considered fair game for the 'wink and nudge' power ratings. After all, the power was, arguably, there ... you just had to remove the factory restrictions to get to it. Open exhaust with headers, and no air cleaner, power steering, or water pump, on a cold February morning ... sure, the car made 511 hp under those conditions, and was thusly 'under-rated' at maybe 425, to keep the insurance companies off your back (among other reasons). But good luck getting those numbers out of a normal production engine under normal conditions with everything hooked up as it was from the factory.

Rock36 04-05-2013 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs (Post 6384650)

Hey thanks, that was exactly what I was talking about, great article.

shaffe 04-05-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky1974 (Post 6383922)
Not even close! The 70 LS6 454 Chevelle was the highest "rated" horsepower car of the muscle car era and that was 450 gross horsepower. If the Z/28 was rated in gross horse power, the number would be closer to 600 than 500.

Thats what it was "rated" at. I believe I read online somewhere that the LS6 in the 70 Chevelle was making close to around 510HP, don't recall where I saw that though.

Bhobbs 04-05-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe (Post 6385580)
Thats what it was "rated" at. I believe I read online somewhere that the LS6 in the 70 Chevelle was making close to around 510HP, don't recall where I saw that though.

The article I linked to dyno'd a 70 Chevelle LS6 with a TH400 and it put down 285 at the wheels.

shaffe 04-05-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs (Post 6385631)
The article I linked to dyno'd a 70 Chevelle LS6 with a TH400 and it put down 285 at the wheels.

yeah I saw that. I could have sworn I read somewhere though that had they rated it at what it should have been rated it was like 510. Ill have to search for the article lol. I know I read that a L-88 Corvette was actually making like 560, I hope im not confusing them hahaha.

When I read your link I was depressed lol, thats extremely disappointing to see that, even at 20% driveline loss thats still only a 342HP engine lol.

Bhobbs 04-05-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe (Post 6385775)
yeah I saw that. I could have sworn I read somewhere though that had they rated it at what it should have been rated it was like 510. Ill have to search for the article lol. I know I read that a L-88 Corvette was actually making like 560, I hope im not confusing them hahaha.

When I read your link I was depressed lol, thats extremely disappointing to see that, even at 20% driveline loss thats still only a 342HP engine lol.

Yeah, it's a little depressing but reality usually is.

LOWDOWN 04-05-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3 (Post 6384464)
SAE gross vs SAE net.

Other than the Viper, I can't think of another American ("BIG-3")-based n/a vehicle that makes more NET hp...

LOWDOWN 04-05-2013 02:30 PM

RE: 1969 Chev ZL1 Engine

How much real power?
Although rated at 430 horsepower by the old method, Chevrolet never released actual power figures for the as-installed production ZL-1 engine. Numbers were tossed around for years until Bill Porterfield decided to find out. Bill had acquired an original block from one of the cars and enough NOS parts to complete another engine. The engine was subjected to 5 levels of test. RPM was limited to 6750.

Engine Test
Configuration Result
---------------------------- --------
All accessories, production 375.7 HP
exhaust manifolds, Camaro
chambered exhaust system,
36 degrees timing

As above with 2-1/8" headers 418.9 HP
replacing the manifolds

Air cleaner, alternator, AIR 447.2 HP
pump removed

Carb re-jetted, timing set 444.2 HP
to 39 degrees

Chambered exhaust system 523.6 HP
removed
The ZL-1 was a legitimate 500+ horsepower engine.

Others have recently built ZL-1's with similiar or higher results. Several have dynoed in the 540-550 HP range. Modern components like piston rings may be the cause of the slightly higher performance.


Again, these are GROSS numbers, NOT SAE net.

Source: http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml#engine (sidebar)

Typical Street Hemis (?!) on Mustang/DynoJet dynos generally put 325-350 hp to the rear wheels, net.

Boris632 04-10-2013 09:46 PM

it said factory and pony car

i think that would be the V10 Challenger Drag Pak. I don't have a clue what those made HP wise (or ET wise) but im pretty sure they are low 10 second cars straight from Mopar.

Now the 427 in the COPO - maybe this is our winner. Haven't seen a one of them run yet

LOWDOWN 04-11-2013 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris632 (Post 6409432)
it said factory and pony car

i think that would be the V10 Challenger Drag Pak. I don't have a clue what those made HP wise (or ET wise) but im pretty sure they are low 10 second cars straight from Mopar.

Now the 427 in the COPO - maybe this is our winner. Haven't seen a one of them run yet

Mustang FR500-CJs, GM's COPOs, and the Drag Pack cars are subcontracted purpose-built, non-street-legal RACE CARS, not "factory-built". Their varied engines are built to racing specs, and are not emissions-compliant.

In fact the same subcontractor who final-assembled the Drag Pack cars also assembles the COPOs...


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