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-   -   Stock Brakes (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290921)

toehead93 04-22-2013 05:56 PM

Stock Brakes
 
For those that have tracked your 1LE, how have the stock brakes been for you? I have Hawk HP+ pads, stainless braided lines, and ATE superblue fluid and my first track day I had no barking issues. Although the track was not break heavy configuration. I am thinking about upgrading my 1LE when it arrives with CTS-V front breaks but I am curious to see how you guys are doing with the stock setup.

cornerspeed92 04-22-2013 06:36 PM

Mine were fine all day at Laguna, which is hard on brakes.I would prefer a harder feeling brake pedal,i wonder if the steel brake lines you put on will offer that feeling,but the brakes were fine all day,no fade what so ever.

Nick S 04-22-2013 09:34 PM

Regarding the stock 1LE brakes do the 1LE's come with different pads than the regular SS's? I know the calipers are the same (besides the paint color) but I wasn't sure about the pads.

toehead93 04-22-2013 10:24 PM

Same from everythin I have seen but not 100 percent on that.

Bad@ssCamaro 04-22-2013 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 (Post 6455529)
Mine were fine all day at Laguna, which is hard on brakes.I would prefer a harder feeling brake pedal,i wonder if the steel brake lines you put on will offer that feeling,but the brakes were fine all day,no fade what so ever.

Yes, I've read that switching out to SS brake lines will give you an improved feel to the brakes. :nod:

Nick S 04-23-2013 05:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I was reading the 1LE dealer info PDF that was posted here a while back and in it there is a passage about the 1LE brake calipers that makes me wonder if there was a slight improvement made to the 1LE calipers or not.

Take a look at the image I snipped from the pdf here.

Synner 04-23-2013 06:03 PM

HP+ will crap out on you if you use them hard, too low of a heat range.

And there are no bearings in calipers, they're probably talking about the upgraded wheel bearings which will help with lateral loads and nothing to do with braking. Yet another reason why dealers aren't who you should get performance info from.

But then again, it's all ball bearings these days.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...w/fletch04.jpg

Phdpsy 04-23-2013 08:24 PM

First track day at Texas World Speedway....8 20 minute sessions with only minor fade at the end of one session. Totally stock brakes and fluid. Changing out to Motul RBF 600 for Curcuit of the Americas first weekend in June. Thinking about pad options that will not be too bad for this 400 mile trip to and from as well as two full track days.

cornerspeed92 04-23-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phdpsy (Post 6460589)
First track day at Texas World Speedway....8 20 minute sessions with only minor fade at the end of one session. Totally stock brakes and fluid. Changing out to Motul RBF 600 for Curcuit of the Americas first weekend in June. Thinking about pad options that will not be too bad for this 400 mile trip to and from as well as two full track days.

Dude,I need info on your track day!! i want to run there and need to know which organizations are running there,thanks.

Abdi 04-23-2013 08:58 PM

I have a TPW of 4/22 for my 1LE so I have no experience with this particular car. Needless to say I can't wait to get in the seat.

With that said... I have been driving on tracks across North America like Mosport, Limerock, and Watkins Glen since 2005 and I would suggest the following to improve the feel of the brake pedal.

1. Steel braided brake hoses.
2. Brake cooling ducts.
3. Brake pads with a higher operating temperature range.
After the above is completed.
To reduce your brake distance
1. R compound tire.

Abdi 04-23-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick S (Post 6459884)
I was reading the 1LE dealer info PDF that was posted here a while back and in it there is a passage about the 1LE brake calipers that makes me wonder if there was a slight improvement made to the 1LE calipers or not.

Take a look at the image I snipped from the pdf here.

I agree with the fellow who said the dealership is probably not the best place for accurate information because the wheel bearings are not a part of the caliper, but there is a possible improvement in brake pedal feel/ travel/response with a stiffer wheel bearing.

That improvement would be noticed in the "knock back" of the pads and caliper piston after high cornering loads when comparing the deflection of the two different wheel bearings.

Phdpsy 04-24-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 (Post 6460680)
Dude,I need info on your track day!! i want to run there and need to know which organizations are running there,thanks.

This is the one I had PM'd you about. It is a group of three TX BMW CCA clubs that got together for it. back at the end of last year. It was offered to members of those groups first, ad sold out in a day. I've been trying to watch for who else might be runing there later this year, but it is hard to get info. The Driver's Edge (the group I generally run with in TX...thedriversedge.net) was the first private group to run at COTA and it went great from my friends that ran it. They are likely going to set it up for at least annually. Might contact Rick (owner) through their site and ask. If I run across other upcoming events there, I'll PM you.

Dropspeed 04-24-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdi (Post 6460781)

With that said... I have been driving on tracks across North America like Mosport, Limerock, and Watkins Glen since 2005 and I would suggest the following to improve the feel of the brake pedal.

1. Steel braided brake hoses.
2. Brake cooling ducts.
3. Brake pads with a higher operating temperature range.
After the above is completed.
To reduce your brake distance
1. R compound tire.

I have been racing and instructing since 1997 and I approve of this message! :).

Those are all pretty standard upgrades across the board for most vehicles that work well. The one thing you forgot to add was DOT 4 brake fluid when you swap those lines.

Matt

Abdi 04-24-2013 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dropspeed (Post 6462437)
I have been racing and instructing since 1997 and I approve of this message! :).

Those are all pretty standard upgrades across the board for most vehicles that work well. The one thing you forgot to add was DOT 4 brake fluid when you swap those lines.

Matt

I totally overlooked the fluid on my list, thank you for bringing that up. I would replace the fluid just like you, when the lines get replaced.

bannonm 04-24-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdi (Post 6464637)
I totally overlooked the fluid on my list, thank you for bringing that up. I would replace the fluid just like you, when the lines get replaced.

If you are seriously going to track, then I suggest frequent bleeding as well. Most of you will never put brake ducts on, and I can tell you that after a day of HDPE that hub area will be smoking. I ran into this last year and the plastic center caps on my TSW literally softened and became loose. I run HP+ and Motul. I didn't have problems until the second half of the second day. Lesson learned and I'm running brake ducts this year.

toehead93 04-24-2013 06:08 PM

I currently have the same setup as you but with ATE blue fluid and no ducts. I plan on doing Sebring in July which will be a better test than Daytona.

cornerspeed92 04-24-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phdpsy (Post 6462408)
This is the one I had PM'd you about. It is a group of three TX BMW CCA clubs that got together for it. back at the end of last year. It was offered to members of those groups first, ad sold out in a day. I've been trying to watch for who else might be runing there later this year, but it is hard to get info. The Driver's Edge (the group I generally run with in TX...thedriversedge.net) was the first private group to run at COTA and it went great from my friends that ran it. They are likely going to set it up for at least annually. Might contact Rick (owner) through their site and ask. If I run across other upcoming events there, I'll PM you.

Thanks i appreciate it!

Dropspeed 04-24-2013 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bannonm (Post 6464660)
If you are seriously going to track, then I suggest frequent bleeding as well. Most of you will never put brake ducts on, and I can tell you that after a day of HDPE that hub area will be smoking. I ran into this last year and the plastic center caps on my TSW literally softened and became loose. I run HP+ and Motul. I didn't have problems until the second half of the second day. Lesson learned and I'm running brake ducts this year.


I see it all the time. When I meet with the beginners before a track day one of the items discussed is removing center caps to prevent damage and allowing the heat to escape.

Bad@ssCamaro 04-25-2013 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bannonm (Post 6464660)
If you are seriously going to track, then I suggest frequent bleeding as well. Most of you will never put brake ducts on, and I can tell you that after a day of HDPE that hub area will be smoking. I ran into this last year and the plastic center caps on my TSW literally softened and became loose. I run HP+ and Motul. I didn't have problems until the second half of the second day. Lesson learned and I'm running brake ducts this year.

Do you only need to run brake ducts to the front since they are bearing most of the work?

coreyaustin17 04-25-2013 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro (Post 6467025)
Do you only need to run brake ducts to the front since they are bearing most of the work?

imo i would say that is a good assumption not to mention the front brakes are dealing with a ton of residual heat from the engine bay

Dropspeed 04-25-2013 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro (Post 6467025)
Do you only need to run brake ducts to the front since they are bearing most of the work?

Simply yes, front ducts are what you would want.

Rear ducts will help as well, but for the majority here they are not necessary and are harder to fabricate.

Matt

X25 04-26-2013 05:47 AM

Cooling ducts are very helpful, right, but you should also make sure you have a nice, long cool-down lap before getting off track. If you don't, you'll end up cooking your fluid and brakes at the paddock :) If you HAVE TO leave the track before your brakes and engine are cool, just drive around paddock until they're cool. Even 25 MPH does wonders when you spend a few minutes driving.

Dropspeed 04-26-2013 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozer (Post 6471385)
Cooling ducts are very helpful, right, but you should also make sure you have a nice, long cool-down lap before getting off track. If you don't, you'll end up cooking your fluid and brakes at the paddock :) If you HAVE TO leave the track before your brakes and engine are cool, just drive around paddock until they're cool. Even 25 MPH does wonders when you spend a few minutes driving.

100%. Agree and while we are at it DO NOT set your parking brake after coming off the track.

X25 04-26-2013 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dropspeed (Post 6471442)
100%. Agree and while we are at it DO NOT set your parking brake after coming off the track.

Oh yes, forgot about mentioning the parking brake. You can just put your car on a gear and shut it down instead of using the parking brake.

Abdi 04-29-2013 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bannonm (Post 6464660)
If you are seriously going to track, then I suggest frequent bleeding as well. Most of you will never put brake ducts on, and I can tell you that after a day of HDPE that hub area will be smoking. I ran into this last year and the plastic center caps on my TSW literally softened and became loose. I run HP+ and Motul. I didn't have problems until the second half of the second day. Lesson learned and I'm running brake ducts this year.

I agree. I bleed the brakes the night before every event. I have dedicated wheels and tires for the track without center caps. Traditionally I've used Motul RBF 600.


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