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-   -   Break-in (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294312)

Zdd 05-08-2013 07:21 PM

Break-in
 
Which break in method did you fellow 1le owners use? and what are the results according to you?

Ive read numerous posts about the following method but yet to see any users feedback how it worked out:

Drain the M1 and fill with shell rottela or any good conventional oil (pennzoil or quacker state 5/w30 (no heavier).

Drive the first 25 miles easy and shut down to cool several times and that heat cycles the ring & pinon in the rear diff properly. Then drive relatively aggressive being safe and obeying laws (dont beat the heck out of it) with several wide open throttle runs, but easy on deceleration. NO 5000-6000 rpm down shifts to engine break, just normal.

After app 1000 miles, drain and fill with a good full syn (I prefer Amsoil, Valvoline, Pennzoil over M1, but M1 is still good) and you should have no oil consumption issues and max ring seat for power.

CrystalRedTintcoat 05-08-2013 07:45 PM

Are you serious? Read your manual. Especially about the oil. Good lord.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

nyrfan 05-08-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zdd (Post 6520732)
Which break in method did you fellow 1le owners use? and what are the results according to you?

Ive read numerous posts about the following method but yet to see any users feedback how it worked out:

Drain the M1 and fill with shell rottela or any good conventional oil (pennzoil or quacker state 5/w30 (no heavier).

Drive the first 25 miles easy and shut down to cool several times and that heat cycles the ring & pinon in the rear diff properly. Then drive relatively aggressive being safe and obeying laws (dont beat the heck out of it) with several wide open throttle runs, but easy on deceleration. NO 5000-6000 rpm down shifts to engine break, just normal.

After app 1000 miles, drain and fill with a good full syn (I prefer Amsoil, Valvoline, Pennzoil over M1, but M1 is still good) and you should have no oil consumption issues and max ring seat for power. Get our RX catchcan on it ASAP as well.

This is a perfect plan and pretty much what I did. Forget the lawyer written manual, and hard break in for maximum performance with no oil consumption.

You need a hard break in the 1st 500 miles to properly seat the rings, after that your car will be a beast.


Sent from my 2SS/RS

nyrfan 05-08-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat (Post 6520859)
Are you serious? Read your manual. Especially about the oil. Good lord.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Actually his plan is much better for proper break-in.


Sent from my 2SS/RS

HighMtnSS 05-08-2013 08:11 PM

The best break-in is to drive it like you stole it!

This method has worked for me w/no issues what so ever-

'13 Camaro 1LE currently undergoing a very aggressive break-in process
'11 Camaro 2SS/RS
'07 Corvette Z06
'07 Corvette Z51
'04 Corvette Z06
'01 Corvette Z51
'99 Corvette Hardtop
'99 Porsche C2 996
'96 Corvette LT4
'96 Corvette LT1
'95 Camaro LT1

...not to mention many 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton pickups, both diesel and gas powered!!!:headbang:

Zdd 05-09-2013 06:12 AM

any other 1le owners drive pretty hard during the break-in?

Scott@Bjorn3D 05-09-2013 06:18 AM

Mine is not a 1LE but I have 1LE rear end in my SS. I drove factory oil until 1000 miles then oil change to Pennzoil Platinum. Next oil change at 3000 and another at 6000. From now on going to run 6K between changes.

As far as break in first 500 miles did not beat on her or go over 4K rpm next 500 miles did get on her some and did not go over 5K rpm. After that drive her like a bat out of hell when I want to. Not burning any oil and catch maybe a 1/2 a tea spoon in catch can every 400 miles.

Casperadub70 05-09-2013 08:45 AM

I get my camaro in a few months. The dealership is 40 miles away. When I pick it up and bring it home do you suggest I just take the freeway or do you think taking streets would be better?

SC2150 05-09-2013 10:42 AM

Drive it hard safely for first 500 miles, drain oil and use a good full syn afterwards like castrol syntec, etc. Drain right away and run shell rottela or similar during breaking is better yet.

Following the owners manual odds are you will have oil consumption issue the life of the motor.

SWAG1LE 05-09-2013 10:58 AM

:popcorn: Hrrmmmm

gajagfan 05-09-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 6522888)
Drive it hard safely for first 500 miles, drain oil and use a good full syn afterwards like castrol syntec, etc. Drain right away and run shell rottela or similar during breaking is better yet.

Following the owners manual odds are you will have oil consumption issue the life of the motor.

I find it hard to believe that if the cars are used as intended that you will not have some oil consumption at the 125K/150K mile mark, no matter the break in plan.

racerx1214 05-09-2013 12:04 PM

Drive off lot. Foot to floor.

Repeat.

RoadMonkey 05-09-2013 12:13 PM

I believe that you should drive it like you plan to drive it from the start. Has worked for me so far...

Casperadub70 05-09-2013 03:30 PM

OK so what about freeway use?

SC2150 05-09-2013 03:59 PM

As long as you do some hard accellerations and some decelerations (not a 7k deceleration!) you can drive highway fine. What you dont want is one RPM for an extened time right off the bat.

gaja,

if broken in properly and then a premium full syn used we see 200-300 k plus w/no noticeable oil consumption.

Over 38 years of building engines (race and street performance as well as classic and rare european) have seen most everything up close and personal. :thumbsup:

WHAMMO 05-09-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 6522888)
Drive it hard safely for first 500 miles, drain oil and use a good full syn afterwards like castrol syntec, etc. Drain right away and run shell rottela or similar during breaking is better yet.

Following the owners manual odds are you will have oil consumption issue the life of the motor.

What Rotella do you suggest? Synth or no for the break in?

gajagfan 05-09-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 6524189)
As long as you do some hard accellerations and some decelerations (not a 7k deceleration!) you can drive highway fine. What you dont want is one RPM for an extened time right off the bat.

gaja,

if broken in properly and then a premium full syn used we see 200-300 k plus w/no noticeable oil consumption.

Over 38 years of building engines (race and street performance as well as classic and rare european) have seen most everything up close and personal. :thumbsup:

I did not mean to insult your opinion, so to recap, your idea of a best break-in would be:

1. Drain oil that comes in the engine (which I believe is a synthetic), and put in something like shell rottela.

2. Drive hard for 500 miles (and please be specific on your definition of driving hard), and then do another oil change back to synthetic.

This is of interest to me because my engine building experience was with drag race engines that you did not really care much about break-in because they were never going to stay together very long, unlike this new car that is on the way. Thanks in advance for your advice!

bluBlud 05-09-2013 04:20 PM

When you guys say drive hard, are you pushing past 4000 rpm? How exact is the 500 mile mark for breakin? I've run hard accels to 4000, a few just a bit over and have been easy on the decels. I'm at about 800 miles now but a little less than half has been highway. Did I miss the window for a good (non owners manual) breakin?

Here's another question - does the hard breakin approach assume you have a catch can on day 1? If I don't, am I still better off?

SC2150 05-09-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6524263)
I did not mean to insult your opinion, so to recap, your idea of a best break-in would be:

1. Drain oil that comes in the engine (which I believe is a synthetic), and put in something like shell rottela.

2. Drive hard for 500 miles (and please be specific on your definition of driving hard), and then do another oil change back to synthetic.

This is of interest to me because my engine building experience was with drag race engines that you did not really care much about break-in because they were never going to stay together very long, unlike this new car that is on the way. Thanks in advance for your advice!

Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.

Then drive easy firt 50 or so miles to let rear gears heat cycle (a few cool downs so around town errands works well). Then, run it up at 3/4 plus throttle (safely!!! no reckless driving) to say 4500-5k RPM, then at 200 or so miles WOT to 5500 and allow some engine breaking (deceleration) but not excessive, and then at 400-500 full throttle to 6 k a few times. Drain at 500 miles (quite a bit of iron dust from the cylinders and some bebris from assembly is always present, so get it out) and fill with full syn (M1 is not near as good as it used to be....) and drive like you would normally and see how well your power, economy, and no or low oil consumption is.

On our race motors we break them in in a few passes, but tolerances are looser than these engines so these take a little more time. But also, do a google search to see what other well known engine builders do as well (most of us do this the same, or close to the same).

Over 38 years of doing theis with excellent results, and we tear down all types of motors and see the results of the owners manual method up close and personal (ask any GM/ford/mopar tech how often they put new rings/pistons in todays new motors due to excess oil consumption, or search here on how many have lost a motor by not checking oil regularly).

2Muchmark 05-09-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat (Post 6520859)
Are you serious? Read your manual. Especially about the oil. Good lord.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

What he said.

And anyway, there's no need to "break in" your car anymore really. Take it easy at first just in case, but otherwise... bah. The idea of "Breaking-in" your car I believe, goes back to the really old days of auto building when parts were not fastened together as tightly, and manufactured to fit as tightly as they are today. Just drive your car and enjoy.

SWAG1LE 05-10-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 6524654)
Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.

Then drive easy firt 50 or so miles to let rear gears heat cycle (a few cool downs so around town errands works well). Then, run it up at 3/4 plus throttle (safely!!! no reckless driving) to say 4500-5k RPM, then at 200 or so miles WOT to 5500 and allow some engine breaking (deceleration) but not excessive, and then at 400-500 full throttle to 6 k a few times. Drain at 500 miles (quite a bit of iron dust from the cylinders and some bebris from assembly is always present, so get it out) and fill with full syn (M1 is not near as good as it used to be....) and drive like you would normally and see how well your power, economy, and no or low oil consumption is.

On our race motors we break them in in a few passes, but tolerances are looser than these engines so these take a little more time. But also, do a google search to see what other well known engine builders do as well (most of us do this the same, or close to the same).

Over 38 years of doing theis with excellent results, and we tear down all types of motors and see the results of the owners manual method up close and personal (ask any GM/ford/mopar tech how often they put new rings/pistons in todays new motors due to excess oil consumption, or search here on how many have lost a motor by not checking oil regularly).

Good stuff! If anything it's peace of mind. I'll be doing the ^^above^^ plus a little of this:

New Vehicle Break-In
Follow these recommended guidelines during the first
1,500 miles/2414 km of driving this vehicle. Parts have a
break-in period and performance will be better in the
long run.
For the first 200 miles/322 km:
To break in new tires, drive at moderate speeds and
avoid hard cornering for the first 200 miles/322 km.
New brake linings also need a break- in period. Avoid
making hard stops during the first 200 miles/322 km.
This is recommended every time brake linings are
replaced.
For the first 500 miles/805 km:
Avoid full throttle starts and abrupt stops.
Do not exceed 4,000 engine rpm.
Avoid driving at any one constant speed, fast or
slow, including the use of cruise control.
Avoid downshifting to brake or slow the vehicle
when the engine speed will exceed 4000 RPM.
Do not let the engine labor. Never lug the engine
in high gear at low speeds. With a manual
transmission, shift to the next lower gear. This rule
applies at all times, not just during the break-in
period.
For the first 1,500 miles/2414 km:
Do not participate in track events, sport driving
schools, or similar activities during the first
1,500 miles/2414 km.
Check engine oil with every refueling and add if
necessary. Oil and fuel consumption may be higher
than normal during the first 1,500 miles/2414 km.

:happy0180:

WHAMMO 05-10-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150 (Post 6524654)
Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.

Even the Shell Rotella has the 'star' symbol, which indicates that there is less ZDDP additive to it so its as good as it used to be..Anyway I dont think ZDDP was your point on your advice seems excellent to me. I have left over synthetic Rotella in my garage, is it as good as regular Rotella for break in? Does it matter?

Michael2000 05-11-2013 12:47 AM

Complete nonsense. Follow the manual, which was written by the engineers who designed the car, not someone from the internet.

Michael

Zdd 05-11-2013 02:19 AM

lol..michael and what kind of experience do you have with engines? just asking..

SC2150 05-11-2013 09:48 AM

Whammo....dont use the synthetic, to protective. you can use any conventional, Pennzoil, QS, Castrol....but just make sure it is a conventional dino oil.

Also, some other good stuff in the other instructions:

Never lug the engine....very important. No steady speed for first few hundred miles....the engine needs to vary RPM's. Tires need heat cycled, and brake pads bedded. Rear gears heat cycling, but the rest drive it as described in my posts.

And finally, Michael, no offense, but you are exactley the mindset the manufacturers market departments have groomed the last few generations. The engineers do not write these instructions, legal, marketing, and management do. The engineers are some of the best in the world, but as with so many other annoying problems owners experiance, it is not the engineers being incompetant....it is they are so constrained it what they cannot implement or disseminate to the public. If allowed to design the best w/out budget constraints these cars would be costing $200-400k and not $30-35k. I share over 38 years of involvement in the industry and years of relationships with engineers from the big 3 and the occaisional european and asian imports.

No one does a better job of controlling the decessions made and the perception of what is true or not than the marketing divisions of any large company, especcially the auto manufacturer's (and mainstream media).

And, since it is a free country, you are free to break in your car/truck as you chosse....but to make a statement such as yours above to others w/out any factual background experiance or ualifications is a diservice for those that do want to know the best way to make their car run the best, with the least amount of issues, and last the longest. In a perfect world, all we are exposed to would be true and accurate, but this is far from the perfect world and misinformation is rampant at all levels of our lives.

These forums are a great way to learn what most of the population takes for granted and are none the wiser, but it is also difficult to sort through biased BS, etc.

I only post what has been part of my life on an intimate basis for longer than most members have been alive. I gain nothing sharing this info...it makes me no $, and in fact takes considerable time out from billable hours and production here at RX.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:


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