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-   -   First Track Day in a 1LE (Bonus ZL1 too) LONG (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298149)

Dropspeed 05-27-2013 10:05 PM

First Track Day in a 1LE (Bonus ZL1 too) LONG
 
6 Attachment(s)
First off....this will be long and detailed.

My background: I have been instructing for about 15 years with numerous clubs, last held a NASA comp license, and have had the opportunity to drive (hard) all sorts of street cars on different tracks including Lotus Elise, Exige, Evora, Esprit V8TT, 996 TT, C4s, Noble M400, Ferrari 599, BMW M6, M3, M5, Maserati Quottroporte Executive GT, Firebreather, Evo, Integra Type R, S2000, GT500, Dodge Minivan, Subaru Legacy and many more but you get the idea. However..the 1LE is the first V8 RWD car I have owned that I have tracked.

Event was with 3Ballsracing.com at Grattan Raceway in Michigan. Grattan has seen many a magazine test and has seen many development miles from manufacturers here in Michigan as it is only about 2 hours from Detroit.

My setup: 1LE picked up from Rodgers Chevrolet 1.5 weeks ago. I have just over 1000 miles on it. I had the oil changed, Motul 600 brake fluid added and dialed in the camber a hair. -1.3/-1.4 front and -0.08 / -0.09 in the rear. I pulled the fuse for the NPP exhaust for the noise and other than that it was all stock. Tire pressure was set at 32psi cold in the morning and away I went. I drove in both competitive mode and with everything off. Day started clear/sunny and in the 50s and climbed to high 60s in the afternoon.

1LE first impression: I really like the car as it is great out of the box. (DISCLAIMER: I am an aggressive driver so this car may be perfect for 80%+ of you to track it stock) The car is very fun to drive but shows it weight on acceleration and in the corners. It was "tossable" but had more body roll than expected. Acceleration was good...but I had a hard time at Grattan as 2nd was too low (too much RPM) and 3rd was too tall coming out of some of the corners (I ended up with 3rd gear as I had to "pedal" 2nd to control wheel spin). The tires were good and wear was even after 3, 20 minute sessions.

Highs:
Steering feel and turn in was great.
The rear end would come around with throttle if asked
It actually felt tossable as the transition from right, left, right set-up left through the esses was very good.
Brakes are good and the stock pads worked well
Transmission was flawless and engages nicely
Car is stable at speed.
1LE will hit the claimed 1G according to the data I have.
The motor did not use a drop of oil.
Coolant temps and oil temps looked consistent all day.
Owner of 2012 Z06 was very confused when SS Camaro caught him on the track and told his son the passenger (who told me) "Its only a Camaro....what is going on! after I passed him :))

Room for improvement: (for me) (NOTE: This is a great car out of the box for the $)
Seats...even with cloth I was sliding around.
Brakes: I want to add cooling ducts and a little more aggressive pad (long term will be 6 piston set-up)
HP: I want more (who doesn't)
Suspension: I might try some springs and maybe a rear bar to reduce body roll. Maybe coil overs down the road...but I want to see what springs and a bar would do
AGAIN: this is my wish list...may not be needed by all

Conclusion: The car does exactly what I paid for and what I expect for the price...What does that mean? It means it is good but not perfect (for me). This is a 3800+lb car with 426hp so it did very well given its heft. I like it a lot but will love it with a few tweeks.

LAP TIMES: Numbers don't tell the complete story but my fastest lap was with traction off and in my third session out. I was braking early on the straight as I don't have a trusting relationship with these Brembos yet and I was still getting a feel for the car. With that said.... My fastest lap was a 1:31.47. So how does that stack up to other stock V8 RWD cars at Grattan? Pretty darn good for the price:

2012 ZL1 1:27.94 (Road and track)
2013 Mustang GT500 1:28.52 (Road and track)
2010 Corvette Grand Sport 1:30.2 (Car and Driver)
2013 Camaro 1LE 1:31.47 (Matt Jensen/me!)
2010 Mustang GT 500 1:33.3 (Car and Driver)

There is also an Internet claim that Car and Driver ran both a Zl1 and a GT500 to a 1:30.2, but I can't find anything to verify that.

I think there was a tad more in the car I could have rung out.....but I had to drive it to South Haven (1.5 hrs south, home of Gingerman Raceway) after to pick up the family and the ohhh so understanding wife would have been ohhhh so not happy had I broke it when it was 8 days old! Second issue....I was sick all morning and trying not to let on...Combination of lack of sleep, (I camped out at the track, it got down to 46 degrees so I moved to the car at 3:30am an slept in the passenger seat) bad choice of food, (Monster and a donut), bug or combo of all dumb choices above. I am not sure what did it, but I did throw up just before lunch and then Joe P from Rodgers bought some ice cream for me. I felt way better after that!! (for real) Thanks again Joe! :)

So what makes a ZL1 3.53 seconds faster on this 2.2 mile road course? A couple of items like 6 pistons brakes, better suspension and about 154hp. Grattan has a 3200 foot long straightaway (see picture below) and the 1LE just does not have the HP to keep up with a ZL1 on that straight. Add to that the 6 pistons Brembos and the ZL1 can haul down the extra weight over and over again with little to no fade at the end of the straight unlike the 1LE.

I had the chance to drive my students ZL1 who was none other than Becky D from Rodgers at her first track event ever.....(and she did very well!) The suspension was great in track mode (I believe setting 5) the brakes felt great and the power was more than enough to get in trouble. I am pretty sure Becky was hitting a higher top speed in her ZL1 than I could muster out of my 1LE even with my higher corner exit speed onto the straight....the ZL1 just has more go! According to the Motortrend test thje ZL1 hit 136 on the Grattan straight I was letting off at about 123 (according to data) as I was still unsure of the brakes. (I have hit 155MPH in my Evo race car back in the day on that stretch)

So do I want a ZL1 over a 1LE? Yes as it is a great car, but No as I figure with a little suspension work, about 50whp and a set of CTS-V/ZL1 6-piston front brakes I could have just as much fun and be just as fast a a ZL1 on almost any track.

So if you made it through all of that here are a couple pictures from the event along with some data log snap shots....I have video but was having issues with my editor so I gave up for tonight. There are also a ton more pictures that will be uploaded later.

Another note: wash your car after a track day. (As you should) Even with the stock pads there was a bunch of brake dusk in the crevasse on the inside of the lip of our wheels. You need to get that area clean as it can stick to and damage the surface.

The rear view mirror picture was taken on lunch time parade laps. That is Becky D and Joe from Rodgers Chevrolet in the white ZL1 and Mr. Wyndham (Joe) in his silver ZL1 who drove in from Buffalo NY for the event! The STIGWHO plate is not really mine...I good friend works for SVT and has the STIG plate on his Mustang so another friend got this plate for his Z06. It was on my car for a little fun.

-Matt



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CHMSC 05-27-2013 10:19 PM

Sounds like you had an awesome time!! Is that an app for your phone? If so what is it?

Dropspeed 05-27-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHMSC (Post 6596687)
Sounds like you had an awesome time!! Is that an app for your phone? If so what is it?

I did...and yes, Harrys Lap Timer for my Iphone. (I purchased the $8.99 version) It worked great on only 1hz. Suppose to work better on 4 and 5hz.It is super detailed with a bunch of data.

-Matt

CHMSC 05-27-2013 10:36 PM

Thanks I will check it out.

1leNPP 05-27-2013 11:59 PM

Thank you for the info. A cheap way to make a little more HP and keep the stock valve train is to go with a LS9 cam . Form what I seen it should bump the motor about 20 HP from 4,000 to 6,600 RPM range . I am thinking that right were it would help most on the long straightway to help the car hang with the higher HP cars better .You can get the cam , sprocket and blots new GM parts for about $150.00. Now if you can do the labor your self it can work out as a cheap up grade . Here a link you can read where they put this cam in a GM 2011 truck made 50 more HP in the truck.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...shaft_swap/The LS3 in the Camaro will not pick up as much HP because the LS3 has a better cam to start with.

Now I like to tell you the cam works out great but I can not because I can not get my darn car out the black hole of GM. The car is still Bayed but what you ran into was just what I was thinking was going to happen and I got the cam here waiting for the car to show up from the dealer.

You may want to go with a adjustable sway bars front and rear . Its look were stuck with ZL1 bars for now http://www.phastekperformance.com/20...l1-1410138.htm . I be looking forward to your UP Grades and how they work out for you.

Brian 1LE SS 05-28-2013 03:18 AM

Very good write up. Thanks for posting.

t&t moyer 05-28-2013 04:16 AM

Good read!!! :)

Exigent 05-28-2013 06:13 AM

Thanks for the review, I've been waiting for someone to post their impressions of the 1LE. I've been tracking a GT3 for the last couple of years and keep looking at the 1LE wondering if I would be happy with it, sounds like I may not be based your observations.

Tampa Tuning 05-28-2013 06:37 AM

sounds like a super fun day. The times were just icing on the cake!

SUKXOST 05-28-2013 06:53 AM

interesting to read...wanna borrow my 1LE for a day? :P

davidcroft 05-28-2013 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUKXOST (Post 6597376)
interesting to read...wanna borrow my 1LE for a day? :P

no sh*t! Matt I installed Eibach lowering springs,American Racing LTs, Vmax throttle body and K&N intake kit.

Round 1 of bolt-ons complete....I need you to drive it though:thumbup:

Nice write up.

Nick S 05-28-2013 07:25 AM

Thanks for the write up and review Matt. Always nice to hear impressions from people that have driven many different types of cars.
Sounds like you had a pretty fun day...other than the not feeling so well part.

Nick S 05-28-2013 07:31 AM

Hey Matt,
Regarding your rear sway bar, from what I've heard from Pete at Pedders is if you put their 32mm ZL1 Rear bar on the 1LE it makes a nice improvement over the stock sway bar set up.

Abdi 05-28-2013 07:50 AM

Great write up and nice to hear a fairly unbiased impression. I've had my car for about two weeks and I will be hitting NJMP Lightning, NHMS and Watkins Glenn beginning July the fourth weekend. June is going to be a long month.

What did you think of the stock tires?

So far I'm having a very difficult time finding a true race brake pad. There is no application from Hawk, PFC, which is what I've used previously. PFC 01, or the blue HT 10.

I'm aware that long tubes and a tune are typically the most bang for buck, but would getting a custom ECU tune without any bolt on upgrades have any significant gains?

Dropspeed 05-28-2013 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exigent (Post 6597324)
Thanks for the review, I've been waiting for someone to post their impressions of the 1LE. I've been tracking a GT3 for the last couple of years and keep looking at the 1LE wondering if I would be happy with it, sounds like I may not be based your observations.

Don't get me wrong, I am not disappointing in anyway with how my 1LE performed for the cost. It is well sorted and does everything it is suppose to do. If it was a GT3/Viper/ZL1/Z06/458 I would have expected more, but that "more" comes with a price. With everything I look for ways to improve it and was trying to note that above.

You are trying to compare a 3,050lb car to a 3850lb car. It is going to feel WAY different, but you may be surprised at how well the 1LE does. Just looking at the prices online today a 10 year old 996TT is going for the same price as a brand new 1LE (give or take) and a 996 GT3 is going for more than a new ZL1 (and much higher) but both Camaro come with a 5yr/100K drive line warranty. Again, the GT3 is sooooo different than a Camaro that I suggest you drive one on the street and you will know right away if you like it or not as the differences in feel will be apparent right from the get-go.

Now, maintenance and OEM parts and aftermarket parts are waaayyyy less expensive for a GM vehicle than a Porsche so that may be an advantage for you. Take one for a test drive....you will either love it or hate it.

-Matt

Dropspeed 05-28-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1leNPP (Post 6596905)
Thank you for the info. A cheap way to make a little more HP and keep the stock valve train is to go with a LS9 cam......

You may want to go with a adjustable sway bars front and rear . Its look were stuck with ZL1 bars for now http://www.phastekperformance.com/20...l1-1410138.htm . I be looking forward to your UP Grades and how they work out for you.

I will look into the LS9 cam...but am torn on opening up the engine as I would like to keep a warranty for a little while...

I believe Pedders makes a swaybar for the rear of the car I was going to look at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUKXOST (Post 6597376)
interesting to read...wanna borrow my 1LE for a day? :P

Yes, Yes I do!:P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidcroft (Post 6597389)
no sh*t! Matt I installed Eibach lowering springs,American Racing LTs, Vmax throttle body and K&N intake kit.

Round 1 of bolt-ons complete....I need you to drive it though:thumbup:

Nice write up.

Thanks, I think you will be very happy with those mods you have listed as they seem to be just what a 1LE would need for me...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick S (Post 6597436)
Hey Matt,
Regarding your rear sway bar, from what I've heard from Pete at Pedders is if you put their 32mm ZL1 Rear bar on the 1LE it makes a nice improvement over the stock sway bar set up.

Yes, I plan on talking to him before my next outing at the end of June.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdi (Post 6597492)
Great write up and nice to hear a fairly unbiased impression......

What did you think of the stock tires?

Thank you, Stock tires were fine and predictable....I did add a little camber as mentioned above and the tires look good. I may add a hair more neg. camber (-1.6 / -1.7) for my next outing, but I still want it to be pleasant to drive on the street.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdi (Post 6597492)
I'm aware that long tubes and a tune are typically the most bang for buck, but would getting a custom ECU tune without any bolt on upgrades have any significant gains?

My understanding is no as they are tweaked well from the factory. Tuning a stock car only puts more strain on the motor. This info comes from a long time good friend of mine that has been involved with the LS motors for years. He has an Engine Dyno and a AWD Mustang dyno and has been tuning for 20+ years...NOW, he said these motors love to breath so heads, headers, cams or intake and a tune will do it wonders...

-Matt

Southern Comfort 05-28-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exigent (Post 6597324)
Thanks for the review, I've been waiting for someone to post their impressions of the 1LE. I've been tracking a GT3 for the last couple of years and keep looking at the 1LE wondering if I would be happy with it, sounds like I may not be based your observations.

Yes, that is one nice machine. Does the GT3 really MSRP at $130,400 ???
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-gt3/

Maybe you should look into a fully optioned 2014 Z/28. Sounds like it would save you some decent money.

Southern Comfort 05-28-2013 09:42 AM

They say there are always two sides to a story. We always hear the manufacturer friendly reviews of pre-production, but rarely any qualified reports from the field.
This is quality information.
Bravo Matt

btw - how's the fluid reservoir look after the event.

Mikamaro 05-28-2013 09:58 AM

Thanks for taking the time to share your personnal experience.
Well done.

Dropspeed 05-28-2013 10:12 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Southern Comfort (Post 6597828)
They say there are always two sides to a story. We always hear the manufacturer friendly reviews of pre-production, but rarely any qualified reports from the field.
This is quality information.
Bravo Matt

btw - how's the fluid reservoir look after the event.

Thank you....I am not the "average" GM/Camaro owner as I have gone full circle in automotive ownership and "toured the automotive globe" purchasing what I wanted without a brand loyalty. I buy something thinking 2,3,5,9 steps ahead as to what it is capable of, not just what it can do stock. Finally, cost is always a factor. The SS/1LE is a bang for the buck car that will hold its own against many more expensive vehicles. (Talking brand new cars that have a warranty also).

As far as the fluid, it still looked brand new yesterday....My wife and kids went to a movie so I could clean up and look over the car. Here she is back in the garage before the cover went on for the week.

-Matt

Mikamaro 05-28-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dropspeed (Post 6597962)
It was "tossable" but had more body roll than expected.
-Matt

Have you drove a SS without The 1LE track pack before?

To what car are you comparing it when you say this?

mindless 05-28-2013 10:32 AM

Fantastic write up! So good to read experiences of 1LE owners at road courses. With any luck soon we'll have a dedicated road course forum.

Mikamaro 05-28-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindless (Post 6598037)
Fantastic write up! So good to read experiences of 1LE owners at road courses. With any luck soon we'll have a dedicated road course forum.

In the mean time: you are welcome to join to our Social club.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/group.php?groupid=244

Dropspeed 05-28-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikamaro (Post 6598022)
Have you drove a SS without The 1LE track pack before?

To what car are you comparing it when you say this?

I have driven and SS, but not on the track. The statement was just based on my expectations derived from driving it on the street.

-Matt

Scott@Bjorn3D 05-28-2013 11:34 AM

Matt,

Ad a CAI intake, scoop and washer bottle relocate from Chase over at APEX and you will really wake her up. That will get you about another 15RWHP. Also do not forget to get an Elite Catch Can from Chase to make sure you are not putting oil into the dirty side of the PVC system.


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