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-   -   educate me on throttle body upgrades (sc'd L99) (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303616)

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 10:36 PM

educate me on throttle body upgrades (sc'd L99)
 
The title says it all basically, educate me on them... what is the benefit, what is the restriction, what are the downsides, what are the cost to power benefits.... and let's keep it semi limited towards the L99, with a touch on supercharged vs. Non supercharged.

All info is helpful.

If I posted this in wrong section, please let me know...

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706714)
The title says it all basically, educate me on them... what is the benefit, what is the restriction, what are the downsides, what are the cost to power benefits.... and let's keep it semi limited towards the L99, with a touch on supercharged vs. Non supercharged.

All info is helpful.

If I posted this in wrong section, please let me know...

What supercharger? The centri doesn't benefit from the 102. The pd blowers do.
L99 or LS3 makes no difference.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 10:39 PM

Edelbrock e force

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706739)
Edelbrock e force

I'm not 100% sure how much gain you'll get with a 102 tb on that blower. It depends on how big the snout is or if it can be ported. If it can you'll gain anywhere from 20-25 rwhp from the 102. More air + more fuel = more power.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 10:48 PM

Something I should probably skip out on then? I'm thinking of getting a smaller pulley for the sc, just kinda want to get some other affordable mods in at the same time as the tune... we are about to close escrow on our first house, so this will probably be my last set of mods for a long while....

Just trying to find a worthy mod in lieu of the smaller pulley.

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706783)
Something I should probably skip out on then? I'm thinking of getting a smaller pulley for the sc, just kinda want to get some other affordable mode in at the same time as the tune... we are about to close escrow on our first house, so this will probably be my last set of mode for a long while....

Just trying to find a worthy mod in lieu of the smaller pulley.

No, it's a worth while mod. Dropping pulley sizes can lead to problems. Belt slip, to much boost, just to name a few. 25 rwhp is nothing to sneeze at for $500. Assuming the snout is already 102mm or bigger.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS (Post 6706796)
No, it's a worth while mod. Dropping pulley sizes can lead to problems. Belt slip, to much boost, just to name a few. 25 rwhp is nothing to sneeze at for $500. Assuming the snout is already 102mm or bigger.

I have a 3.875" pulley, im just dropping to a 3.5" (which comes with the LS3, the L99 gets the 3.875"

My thought on the TB was the same, $500 for easy gain if the snout is wide enough, just don't know those numbers or much about its usefullness

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 10:58 PM

Probably helpful to mention I'm at 5-6 lbs of boost with the pulley I have now.

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706826)
I have a 3.875" pulley, im just dropping to a 3.5" (which comes with the LS3, the L99 gets the 3.875"

My thought on the TB was the same, $500 for easy gain if the snout is wide enough, just don't know those numbers or much about its usefullness

The E force I'm not familiar with. The Maggie and Whipple see great gains with the 102 tb. With the Eforce being a pd blower you should see similar gains. You'll have to look into the snout size. The Maggie needs porting but the whipple doesn't.

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706834)
Probably helpful to mention I'm at 5-6 lbs of boost with the pulley I have now.

So a few more # would be fine.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 11:16 PM

Cool deal, I'll have to get it measured and see if it would be worth it... I'm sure the minute I have to port the snout it will be out of my budget though, I don't quite trust myself with doing that ha.

I'm trying to get to 550rwhp or close to it, not sure how far off I am with the smaller pulley and tb, but I ran out of time and $$ so whatever that gives me will have to do.

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6706929)
Cool deal, I'll have to get it measured and see if it would be worth it... I'm sure the minute I have to port the snout it will be out of my budget though, I don't quite trust myself with doing that ha.

I'm trying to get to 550rwhp or close to it, not sure how far off I am with the smaller pulley and tb, but I ran out of time and $$ so whatever that gives me will have to do.

You're in Cali so I wouldn't get my heart set on a number. No headers or aftermarket cai will kill you. That pulley drop may bet you another 34-40 rwhp.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 11:33 PM

Yeah, I have LT borla headers, cat delete, resonator delete to flowmasters and AEM custom CAI, and I'm at 443rwhp... I'm betting I'll be around 500rwhp at most with the pulley and Tb depending...

I debated between going to a 3.4" pulley, but I dont know enough of what could go wrong internally, or otherwise, so feel best to go with the 3.5"...

Supercharged SS 06-23-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707027)
Yeah, I have LT borla headers, cat delete, resonator delete to flowmasters and AEM custom CAI, and I'm at 443rwhp... I'm betting I'll be around 500rwhp at most with the pulley and Tb depending...

I debated between going to a 3.4" pulley, but I dont know enough of what could go wrong internally, or otherwise, so feel best to go with the 3.5"...

I would start with the 3.5.

What type of dyno did they use? That number seems low that's why I thought no headers and cold air kit.

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 11:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS (Post 6707100)
I would start with the 3.5.

What type of dyno did they use? That number seems low that's why I thought no headers and cold air kit.

I thought I was the only one who thought that, a lot of tune shops said that seemed about right when I talked to a few about it... I'm not very sure what kind of dyno it was, here's the sheet though...

Attachment 526853

Mkn95u0 06-23-2013 11:58 PM

The supercharger is rated at 554hp to the crank, 20% loss to the wheels... bone stock it was at 318hp, which is 20.5% loss from the crank 400hp)

Supercharged SS 06-24-2013 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707129)
I thought I was the only one who thought that, a lot of tune shops said that seemed about right when I talked to a few about it... I'm not very sure what kind of dyno it was, here's the sheet though...

Attachment 526853

Something isn't right. You were at 369 with the bolt on which is dead nuts on an L99 car.

Then with the blower you gained roughly 70 rwhp. That's almost impossible. Even at 6 psi you should gain between 100 -120 rwhp. Typically it's 20 rwhp for every lb of boost.

Before you change anything I'd investigate this. Talk to your guy. Talk to some other tuners because you are way off.

In this case the type of dyno is irrelevant. You car was done on the sane dyno and produced average bolt on numbers. I was thinking maybe they used a mustang dyno which is usually 10-20% lower than most other dyno's. which would explain the low rwhp blower numbers.

Mkn95u0 06-24-2013 12:02 AM

318rwhp bone stock, I entered with 369rwhp with LTH, cai, flowmasters, no cats no tune... came out with 443 sc'd, tuned and cai kinda became obsolete since they hacked it up... AEM custom built a new one for us shortly after, but didn't get it re tuned yet.

Supercharged SS 06-24-2013 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707153)
The supercharger is rated at 554hp to the crank, 20% loss to the wheels... bone stock it was at 318hp, which is 20.5% loss from the crank 400hp)

As you increase the power that drivetrain loss percentage drops. It it sucks up 82 rwhp stock it's doesnt use 88 rwhp with the blower. It's still only uses the 82 rwhp. So the drivetrain loss at 443 is 18%.

Supercharged SS 06-24-2013 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707174)
318rwhp bone stock, I entered with 369rwhp with LTH, cai, flowmasters, no cats no tune... came out with 443 sc'd, tuned and cai kinda became obsolete since they hacked it up... AEM custom built a new one for us shortly after, but didn't get it re tuned yet.

Get the new cai and have then retune it. Then start from that point. Gaining 70 rwhp from a blower is ridiculous.

Mkn95u0 06-24-2013 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS (Post 6707165)
Something isn't right. You were at 369 with the bolt on which is dead nuts on an L99 car.

Then with the blower you gained roughly 70 rwhp. That's almost impossible. Even at 6 psi you should gain between 100 -120 rwhp. Typically it's 20 rwhp for every lb of boost.

Before you change anything I'd investigate this. Talk to your guy. Talk to some other tuners because you are way off.

In this case the type of dyno is irrelevant. You car was done on the sane dyno and produced average bolt on numbers. I was thinking maybe they used a mustang dyno which is usually 10-20% lower than most other dyno's. which would explain the low rwhp blower numbers.

Good to know all of this cuz I wasn't very impressed with the SC numbers to this day... i had it done in Arizona, over the weekend, and i don't live close to there, was out there on work so i had it shipped there... i don't have a tune guy or any shops down here that i really go to on a reg basis, still trying to find one, have 3 referrals to shops, but talking to them they're all kinds biased against edelbrocks sc'r so m still searching...

The shop i took it too was very familiar with them and said nothing but good things and how many they've installed... they had 3 Camaros in there with them when i got there, so trusted their judgment and work...

Supercharged SS 06-24-2013 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707211)
Good to know all of this cuz I wasn't very impressed with the SC numbers to this day... i had it done in Arizona, over the weekend, and i don't live close to there, was out there on work so i had it shipped there... i don't have a tune guy or any shops down here that i really go to on a reg basis, still trying to find one, have 3 referrals to shops, but talking to them they're all kinds biased against edelbrocks sc'r so m still searching...

The shop i took it too was very familiar with them and said nothing but good things and how many they've installed... they had 3 Camaros in there with them when i got there, so trusted their judgment and work...


The blower is gd, maybe the tune isn't. But something isn't right. That number just seems low to me.

Mkn95u0 06-24-2013 12:24 AM

Yeah, i have a number to a shop in Ontario here I'm calling tomorrow that was given to me by a friend, so hopefully he will think like this also and will give me a good estimate.

Supercharged SS 06-24-2013 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0 (Post 6707286)
Yeah, i have a number to a shop in Ontario here I'm calling tomorrow that was given to me by a friend, so hopefully he will think like this also and will give me a good estimate.

You should try Cunningham Motorsports in Murrieta. I don't know him personally or his work but I've read nothing but great things about Ryne. He seems to know his stuff.

Mkn95u0 06-24-2013 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS (Post 6707307)
You should try Cunningham Motorsports in Murrieta. I don't know him personally or his work but I've read nothing but great things about Ryne. He seems to know his stuff.


I tried to get ahold of this shop actually, AEM referred me to them but they never seem to answer via email nor phone... this other place is called CBM motorsports... basically specialize in GM cars and LS motors... i will try Cunningham again though, more research the better, if i can get ahold of them this time around.


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