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-   -   GM Certifed my arse (a Rant and a call to GM CS) (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306583)

Zabo 07-09-2013 11:49 AM

GM Certifed my arse (a Rant and a call to GM CS)
 
Recently purchased a GM certified used (and Motor Trend certified used) 2010 2SS/RS Camaro. Build date: September 11, 2009 and it's a preorder R6P car.

List of things I found during and after delivery that the dealership has balked about:

- Clear Coat crazing in multiple places on the roof
- Paint chipping on the fenders
- a sizable dent on the drivers side of the hood the size of a dollar bill
- Clear chipping on the polished 20" factory rims
- Clutch chatter and excessive noise under load on the driveline (to the point it sounds like a solid axle 4th gen with bad bearings)

Also warranty voiding concerns:

- Tom Gill during the sales pitch did say that I could add GM factory performance parts and other factory parts from later model years and not void the powertrain warranty so long as it didn't involve cracking open the transmission or engine.

- They turn right around 4 days after delivery during a check on the driveline noise and vehemently deny my ability to install the NPP Exhaust, ZL1 Short Throw shifter, and 1LE suspension upgrade package even though they do not constitute opening up the engine or touching anything emissions wise.

- Also, the check on the driveline issue was met with a pencil whip write off to the TSB on synthetic oils. I've run synthetic oils (the same oils in this car were in my 2000 T/A with 60K miles at trade in) and this noise is worse than the '00 T/A's T56. Not to mention the lifter tick is on par with the 12 year old LS1 I had with regular oil changes.

All in all the point I'm attempting to get across is that this vehicle should NOT have been sold with a GM certified sticker (and thusly at an inflated price) and if this were the case I believe they should repair the hood dent they 'skipped' because it was 'beyond their ability to correct' as well as address the false claims of being able to add factory performance parts and also factory components from later model years that address certain problems with handling (2012+ Rear suspension has been brought up).

I have read and understand my rights under the Federal Warranty Act but from my viewpoint adding a dual mode exhaust which just bolts onto the car and is designed, engineered, and built by GM should not void the warranty on an LS3 2010 Camaro that has been GM certified used.

Be that as it may, I am calling out to GM customer service as to whether or not this could be grounds for the car being returned to the dealership and exchanged for another vehicle. My original plan had been to convert the car to a 1LE and had been told by various service departments that this was within my rights under the warranty contract as it is an upgrade package to the SS model Camaro (the new parts would not be under the warranty a 2013 1LE has as a powertrain warranty but the current remainder of the warranty wouldn't be rendered null and void).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Avenging Orange 07-09-2013 12:08 PM

I guess my first question would be...........You bought this car sight unseen?

Zabo 07-09-2013 12:14 PM

No, I drove it, none of this appeared during the test drives it was only during delivery that I noticed things and at which they refused to repair these parts. Also, this car is just as it came from Oshawa so from my understanding these issues should have been addressed at the inspection phase before it was offered for sale. I also had multiple chances to check the car during it's inspection but was told flatly 'no' unless I had my trade vehicle to give over (which at the time was 300 miles away at my parents house).

The dent and chips know are bumper to bumper and should have been taken care of, but the clutch chatter and whine from the driveline has me scratching my head, especially when a technician nonchalantly said that one car they had as trade in and bayed at the same time (same trim and color too..) had a bad throwout bearing when they checked it over.

Now if these are two different cars maybe, I did see a second matching SS in the back lot but it still had plates and looked like someone still owned it.

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo (Post 6766947)
No, I drove it, none of this appeared during the test drives it was only during delivery that I noticed things and at which they refused to repair these parts. Also, this car is just as it came from Oshawa so from my understanding these issues should have been addressed at the inspection phase before it was offered for sale. I also had multiple chances to check the car during it's inspection but was told flatly 'no' unless I had my trade vehicle to give over (which at the time was 300 miles away at my parents house).

The dent and chips know are bumper to bumper and should have been taken care of, but the clutch chatter and whine from the driveline has me scratching my head, especially when a technician nonchalantly said that one car they had as trade in and bayed at the same time (same trim and color too..) had a bad throwout bearing when they checked it over.

Now if these are two different cars maybe, I did see a second matching SS in the back lot but it still had plates and looked like someone still owned it.

So all these problems just suddenly appeared but werent tbere when you test drove it? Sounds like someone was a little too excited to buy a camaro and signed the papers too fast......

Unknown SSRS 07-09-2013 12:21 PM

if it had so many issues .. you should not have taken the car.why buy a car knowing it has all those issues? red flag would have gone up as soon as they say u can not inspect the car. should have walked away. also ... when GM "Certifies" a used car.. its only for drivetrain... cosmetics like dents and scratches and anything of that sort is not part of the Certification process.

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown SSRS (Post 6766977)
if it had so many issues .. you should not have taken the car.why buy a car knowing it has all those issues? red flag would have gone up as soon as they say u can not inspect the car. should have walked away. also ... when GM "Certifies" a used car.. its only for drivetrain... cosmetics like dents and scratches and anything of that sort is not part of the Certification process.

And safety items. Your right it has nothing to do with cosmetics.

2010SS2SS 07-09-2013 12:36 PM

Dent and chips aren't covered under "bumper to bumper". They would be wear and tear.
As for other problems they should have been addressed before the purchase. If your wanting them to repair items your not happy with after the purchase, GOOD LUCK!

Avenging Orange 07-09-2013 07:27 PM

Correct me if Im wrong, is there not a 1yr 12,000 warranty on GM certified? Im guessing drivetrain only? Yeah, you prob are going to get burned on the body and wheels, but they should take care of the clutch issue.

Zabo 07-09-2013 07:31 PM

Well two phone calls later and it seems that we were both in the wrong. Paint and dings will be reinspected and under bumper to bumper should be repaired. Turns out the whining I heard was the '10's shifter mechanism and excessive echoing from the driveshaft. I'm a nitpick fanatic with noises, got the better of me.

Mainly still peeved at being patronized by a service department that was found to be in the wrong by the used car manager. Guess it pays to bitch sometimes even if you pull the trigger too early. Live and learn.

Also, DTrimpi87, do you get your kicks on calling people out in a smug, self-righteous manner over the internet? Care to explain why you've chosen to target me in what was obviously an ill placed and thought out rant thread?

429 07-09-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo (Post 6768621)
Well two phone calls later and it seems that we were both in the wrong. Paint and dings will be reinspected and under bumper to bumper should be repaired. Turns out the whining I heard was the '10's shifter mechanism and excessive echoing from the driveshaft. I'm a nitpick fanatic with noises, got the better of me.

Mainly still peeved at being patronized by a service department that was found to be in the wrong by the used car manager. Guess it pays to bitch sometimes even if you pull the trigger too early. Live and learn.

Also, DTrimpi87, do you get your kicks on calling people out in a smug, self-righteous manner over the internet? Care to explain why you've chosen to target me in what was obviously an ill placed and thought out rant thread?


"My car makes noises, boohoo waaa waaa."

You bought it, and brought it home. The car is certified to not be broken/not break, not to be whisper quiet.

Add some power, make it louder, or something. Toyota is offering 0% on priuses right now, as a viable alternative.



Some people.

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo (Post 6768621)
Well two phone calls later and it seems that we were both in the wrong. Paint and dings will be reinspected and under bumper to bumper should be repaired. Turns out the whining I heard was the '10's shifter mechanism and excessive echoing from the driveshaft. I'm a nitpick fanatic with noises, got the better of me.

Mainly still peeved at being patronized by a service department that was found to be in the wrong by the used car manager. Guess it pays to bitch sometimes even if you pull the trigger too early. Live and learn.

Also, DTrimpi87, do you get your kicks on calling people out in a smug, self-righteous manner over the internet? Care to explain why you've chosen to target me in what was obviously an ill placed and thought out rant thread?

Who else was I supposed to target? Your the one that started the thread. I call it like I see it.

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429 (Post 6768690)
Toyota is offering 0% on priuses right now, as a viable alternative.



Some people.

Lol epic.

Zabo 07-09-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429 (Post 6768690)
"My car makes noises, boohoo waaa waaa."

You bought it, and brought it home. The car is certified to not be broken/not break, not to be whisper quiet.

Add some power, make it louder, or something. Toyota is offering 0% on priuses right now, as a viable alternative.



Some people.

Not a soulless tree hugging schmuck, thanks. :thumbsup:

Well whether the whine was normal I had no idea. I'm going from an SRA '00 T/A with a full exhaust to an IRS Camaro with sound deadening. I'm used to noises, but in my experience letting them go lead to stuff doing the breaking thing.

Louder is kinda the plan, back to the way my T/A was. Thing was that the dealership wanted me to buy into some crap warranty agreement in order to go without a cosigner (banks idea, straight horses mouth made me sign on the dotted line). Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to even get the damn loan for the car in the first place. BS about student loans that you've all probably heard before.

I miss LTs, I miss straight pipes. But to be c**kblocked by a dealership trying to find some excuse.. well I guess we both can play that game. Needless to say one of the phone calls clarified what I was trying to point out to the service department (like the whole I dunno.. loud axle back doesn't do jack s**t to a oil pickup line?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtrimpi87 (Post 6768723)
Who else was I supposed to target? Your the one that started the thread. I call it like I see it.

Keep it to yourself and walk on? I dunno.. why target anyone?

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo (Post 6768758)
Not a soulless tree hugging schmuck, thanks. :thumbsup:

Well whether the whine was normal I had no idea. I'm going from an SRA '00 T/A with a full exhaust to an IRS Camaro with sound deadening. I'm used to noises, but in my experience letting them go lead to stuff doing the breaking thing.

Louder is kinda the plan, back to the way my T/A was. Thing was that the dealership wanted me to buy into some crap warranty agreement in order to go without a cosigner (banks idea, straight horses mouth made me sign on the dotted line). Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to even get the damn loan for the car in the first place. BS about student loans that you've all probably heard before.

I miss LTs, I miss straight pipes. But to be c**kblocked by a dealership trying to find some excuse.. well I guess we both can play that game. Needless to say one of the phone calls clarified what I was trying to point out to the service department (like the whole I dunno.. loud axle back doesn't do jack s**t to a oil pickup line?)



Keep it to yourself and walk on? I dunno.. why target anyone?

That's funny. Why are you targeting me when everyone else had the same opinion.

Zabo 07-09-2013 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtrimpi87 (Post 6768917)
That's funny. Why are you targeting me when everyone else had the same opinion.

Same funny way you decide to call people out for your own jollies?

Oh, and by the way, what was that 'same opinion'; that I shouldn't have bought the Camaro and that I'm a whiny irresponsible douche that doesn't deserve the car and I probably never really bought one in the first place?

Dtrimpi87 07-09-2013 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo (Post 6768990)
Same funny way you decide to call people out for your own jollies?

Oh, and by the way, what was that 'same opinion'; that I shouldn't have bought the Camaro and that I'm a whiny irresponsible douche that doesn't deserve the car and I probably never really bought one in the first place?

Lol grow up

JR 1 07-10-2013 09:29 AM

Even a certified used car is not guaranteed to be cosmetically perfect, and bumper to bumper does not cover cosmetic issues. If that was the case why would anyone buy new? Glad to hear they took care of it though, but I suspect it was to make you happy not because they were obligated to do it.

Avenging Orange 07-11-2013 11:28 AM

Glad they are working with you. Two things.....concider this a lesson, never buy till you are completely satisfied and get any issues in writing before you sign the bottom line. And, you boght the wrong car if you expect noise free driving.:)

Avenging Orange 07-11-2013 11:30 AM

Glad they are working with you. Two things.....concider this a lesson, never buy till you are completely satisfied and get any issues in writing before you sign the bottom line. And, you bought the wrong car if you expect noise free driving.:)

firestone_ss 07-11-2013 09:54 PM

sept of 09 seems like a very late r6p car are you sure about that,did you check the sticker in the trunk?

Dropspeed 07-11-2013 10:07 PM

I think Dtrimpi87 was just stating what others are thinking in terms of you buying a car and then you complain of its cosmetic state after you took it home.

In regards to warranty it is very simple and you can look it up under Magnuson-Moss Warranty act...Wikipedi below, SEMA has a better listing if I remember correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act

Bottom line is that unless the part you installed directly effects or causes the part you are trying to warranty to fail they cannot deny the warranty. IE: a 1LE suspension, NPP Exhaust nor the ZL1 shifter are not going to cause your ECU to fail or your motor to drop a valve.

If the dealership tries to deny a claim for warranty based on an aftermarket install you insist for this denial to be in writing (they wont do it). If they do not have proof that your install or component has a direct correlation to the failed part they cannot deny the claim.

NOWWWWW. If you put a ZL1 shifter in your car and your trans starts grinding they can of course try to link the two and can stating incompatibility not allowing the the trans to fully engage in the gear causing the teeth to grind or wear...ect. Those types of claims are hard to fight as a consumer. But if the A/C stops working there is no direct link unless during your swaybar install you damage an a/c line (you get the point)

It is 100% case by case.....but there is no such thing as "VOIDING A WARRANTY" across the board unless the car has been hit and rebuilt or has been in a flood....everything else can be warrantied period!..Dealerships cannot VOID or black ball a car for a few mods....

-Matt

JimE 07-11-2013 10:14 PM

Go to a different dealer/maint department. It's GM certified, thus it can be serviced at any GM dealership. The current dealer obviously isn't the best choice.


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