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-   -   Pedders 1LE Permagrin Package (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308418)

Inferno1LE 07-21-2013 07:12 AM

Pedders 1LE Permagrin Package
 
I recently installed the Pedders 1LE Permagrin Package on my 2013 1LE Camaro. Here is a review on the performance of the kit, and the installation:

http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...g/Default.aspx

This package includes 3 parts:
EP6577 Steel Jacketed Urethane Raduis Bushes
EP1201HD R Sub-Frame Bush perform like solid mounts w/ protecting sub-frame integrity
1LE Rear 32 MM Direct Replacement Rear Sway Bar

Cost as a package: $999.99



Performance on track:

The 1LE Camaro, as it comes from the factory, is a phenomenal track-day machine, but for those of us who need that little bit extra that Chevy was afraid to give us for the daily driver, THIS IS IT! Turn-in is incredible, it's instant. The slight amount of understeer still left in the 1LE is GONE. Now when you put the car into a slide, all 4 wheels drift evenly, and you can adjust the angle of your slide effortlessly. The car stays planted until you want it to let loose, never before. It rotates like a dream, tracking is excellent, and the best part is it's predictability. You know exactly where the car is going and how it will react to every slight input. Steering with the throttle is not the least bit unnerving after installing this kit.

For those of you worried about street performance and road noise, yes there is a minor increase in suspension noise and differential whine from the subframe. That being said, if you were to drive a stock 1LE back to back with a pedderised one, I doubt you would notice the difference in noise, but you certainly would notice a difference in performance.

I know some of you comment that this kit is expensive considering the components it contains. I will tell you it's worth every penny. If you don't believe me, come to a track day near me, and you can see for yourself.

I know some of you have been waiting for my on-track review for a while now, and I'd just like to talk a little about why that is, so no one makes the same mistake I did. I had the car aligned by a local alignment shop after installing this kit because they were the only people I could get to do this on a short time frame. The alignment was absolutely HORRIBLE; the specs were so far out from what they said they were that the car was almost undriveable. I'm talking about 1 degree of camber on one side, 2.5 on the other. .5 degrees of toe on one side and 0 on the other. Basically I was dragging the tires around the track. Unfortunately, I assumed this was due to the new parts and gave Pete an earful (SORRY!). Once I got the car re-aligned by a race specialty shop, Bulldog Motorsports in Clifton, NJ, it was absolutely perfect.



Installation:

Total installation time: 6 hrs (2 friends and myself on our backs, using jack stands in 100 degree weather... Case of beer)

Just a note: If you don't have an impact wrench, torque wrench, or decent mechanical ability, bring this somewhere to have it installed.

Radius Bushes:
By far the most annoying part of this installation was removing the front radius arms. It takes a good solid metal dead blow hammer. One side was particularly stubborned and required an air hammer. Don't use a pickle fork because you will break the boot on the ball joint. I also mushroomed 1 of the ball joint ends and had to hacksaw 1/4" off to get the nut off. There is about 1/2" before the threads, so it's fine. I then brought the arms to a shop near my house and for 40 bucks, they pressed in the 2 bushings. It took them about 30 minutes. I then put the arms back on the car and tightened the nuts until the ball joint was seated properly.

Subframe bushings:
I thought this would be the most difficult part, but it was cake. You need to make the pedders tool from a 4" PVC sleeve, thrraded rod, and some plumbing parts. There are pictures of it on Pedders website. If you talk to Pete from Pedders he'll explain how it works. First you support the rear differential with a floor jack and remove the 4 subframe bolts. Then lower the jack so the rear subframe drops down. I then had to remove the 2 lower strut mounts in order to drop it a few more inches. I put the Pedders tool on the bushing and tightened it with an impact gun until it got pretty tight, then heated the subframe with a propane torch. The bushing popped and then I tightened the tool until the bushing was pressed out. Repeat this process for the other 3 bushings, then pop in the new bushings and carefully re-align the rear subframe and tighten the bolts.

Sway bar:
This is as easy as it looks. Remove the nuts from the top of the end links, remove the for bolts holding the shackles, and pull the bar out the side. You'll have to twist and turn it on the way out, but it'll come. Remove the shackles from the OEM bar by putting 1 end in a vise and twisting the bar. Pop the new bushings on the new bar, and the shackles on the bushings, slide it in and tighten everything.

It is very important that ALL of these suspension parts be torqued properly. Pedders will give you the specs if you ask.
Obviously you need to get the car aligned properly as well, or you won't get the full benefit of this package. Once again, Pedders will give you their specs.

I can't thank Pete from Pedders enough for his support with installation and answering a few dumb questions along the way.

BigBlock69RS 07-21-2013 11:40 AM

Thanks for the review. On my wish list.

Nick S 07-24-2013 10:39 AM

Any update after the track day?? Very curious on the improvements gained?

SUKXOST 07-24-2013 10:49 AM

Just me or does $1K for 4 bushings and a sway bar seem, ridiculous? Tough to spend that kind of money to "upgrade" the 1LE that is already well known to have an EPIC set up.

jgalewsk 07-24-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUKXOST (Post 6814556)
Just me or does $1K for 4 bushings and a sway bar seem, ridiculous? Tough to spend that kind of money to "upgrade" the 1LE that is already well known to have an EPIC set up.

It's actually 6 bushes. I would agree that 1k is a bit much for bushes and a sway bar, but it is worth it. I know the 1LE has an epic setup from the factory, but those bushings help a lot. When I first drove my 1LE, I thought it was like a go kart with the amazing steering feel and responsiveness (switching from a stock 06 Mustang GT = HUGE difference). I didn't think it could get a whole lot better... until I added those bushes. The radius bushes were the biggest difference. There is no play in the steering whatsoever. Turn the wheel and the car immediately turns. Brakes feel more direct. The subframe bushes helped with stability during corner exit and just having the rear more planted and solid. The 32mm sway bar makes the car more bias to oversteer rather than understeer if you throw it into a corner really hard. Understeer = "TURN DAMN IT!" Oversteer = MORE FUN lol It all depends on how you like your car to drive...

So Cal Camaro 07-24-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUKXOST (Post 6814556)
Just me or does $1K for 4 bushings and a sway bar seem, ridiculous? Tough to spend that kind of money to "upgrade" the 1LE that is already well known to have an EPIC set up.

Given the power adding to your 1LE, it would surely help to keep the rear end more planted in corners....I added the Pedder's front sway bar to so it was adjustable for more tuning...It just makes a good setup better...

ZL1-V 07-24-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgalewsk (Post 6814839)
It's actually 6 bushes. I would agree that 1k is a bit much for bushes and a sway bar, but it is worth it. I know the 1LE has an epic setup from the factory, but those bushings help a lot. When I first drove my 1LE, I thought it was like a go kart with the amazing steering feel and responsiveness (switching from a stock 06 Mustang GT = HUGE difference). I didn't think it could get a whole lot better... until I added those bushes. The radius bushes were the biggest difference. There is no play in the steering whatsoever. Turn the wheel and the car immediately turns. Brakes feel more direct. The subframe bushes helped with stability during corner exit and just having the rear more planted and solid. The 32mm sway bar makes the car more bias to oversteer rather than understeer if you throw it into a corner really hard. Understeer = "TURN DAMN IT!" Oversteer = MORE FUN lol It all depends on how you like your car to drive...


I agree with what you posted as I had similar results when I upgraded my ZL1 with radius arm bushings and sway bars, and rear subframe bushings. The car gives so much more feedback now. I have seen guys blow 1K on things with no return at all except for the memories! This is money well spent that improves upon an already good suspension platform.

P.S.

Cool pics of your car on the lowered Camaro page that has been revived!

jgalewsk 07-24-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL1-V (Post 6815654)
P.S.

Cool pics of your car on the lowered Camaro page that has been revived!

Thanks! Now all I need to do is update my own build thread... I've been neglecting it for too long now.

t&t moyer 07-24-2013 11:27 PM

I too looked at the $1k price tag and thought damn that's spendy. For now I have the sway to install when I get stateside and considering cradle bushings but damn the price for bushings, I just can't get over it. I suppose it comes down to how much more I want to improve things and the end result of what I'm expecting from the 1LE.

Can I live with the 1LE as it is or will be once I get things sorted when home? Maybe but time will tell. The mods never seem to end....... :(

SUKXOST 07-25-2013 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t&t moyer (Post 6817453)
I too looked at the $1k price tag and thought damn that's spendy. For now I have the sway to install when I get stateside and considering cradle bushings but damn the price for bushings, I just can't get over it. I suppose it comes down to how much more I want to improve things and the end result of what I'm expecting from the 1LE.

Can I live with the 1LE as it is or will be once I get things sorted when home? Maybe but time will tell. The mods never seem to end....... :(

Yeah, a few years ago I bought a full polly set of bushings for my TC cobalt AND engine mounts and paid LESS than $500 shipped to my door. That ALSO included having the engine mounts powdercoated to match my SW color scheme.

This is supposed to be a package "deal"?. Their profit margin on this has to be incredibly high....why try and take people for a ride? Doesnt make sense to me. I guess because people are willing to pay for it but I'd be willing to be a whole lot more people would JUMP on this if the price was far more reasonable. I'd be first in line.

ZL1-V 07-25-2013 01:14 PM

Now that I have re-read the post that is high for one sway bar and bushings! I paid more for my package but it was a complete package that was front radius, rear bushings all four replaced. Better deals out there somewhere? I paid half of that for a complete set of Pedders sway bars.

caverman 07-25-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t&t moyer (Post 6817453)
I too looked at the $1k price tag and thought damn that's spendy. For now I have the sway to install when I get stateside and considering cradle bushings but damn the price for bushings, I just can't get over it. I suppose it comes down to how much more I want to improve things and the end result of what I'm expecting from the 1LE.

Can I live with the 1LE as it is or will be once I get things sorted when home? Maybe but time will tell. The mods never seem to end....... :(

If you plan to stay under the 500 rwhp mark then you could get away with bushing inserts. Full bushing would be better but the insert cost and install is much better. I can say that I definitely felt my inserts when I installed them. Also, if for some reason you sell the car or decide to upgrade to a full bush then you could sell those inserts and get probably 60% of the cost back. Just my take.

Stick with Pedders bushing inserts though. Trust me, I installed a competitors and removed them to go to Pedders. They cost more but are a better bushing.

JusticePete 07-29-2013 09:01 AM

Repeatable Predictable Performance says it all.

If you want to drive the best-of-the-best 5th Gen Camaro, then you'll want Pedders. For the second year in a row, the Pedders Lingenfelter Camaro had the fastest combined Road Course (2nd to a bad axx 3,100 pound Vette) and Autocross (1st) times at the event.



The data connection from the vehicle to the data logger was intermittent. The G forces are integral to the data logger and are spot on. It doesn't matter. That white 5th Gen has full areo, is gutted to bare metal, no interior, no AC, Light Weight Windows, Monster Motor and is well driven. The L/28 hits the track at 4,180 sans driver and is still the fastest 5th Gen, Mustang or Challenger on the circuit. Our tires are cooked an have lost grip, but we want to stretch them out through the FEST. It doesn't matter. The timer matters. You are either fast or you aren't. A Pedders prepared Camaro has never lost to ANY brand X suspension, though brand X is cheaper...

BigBlock69RS 07-29-2013 09:18 AM

Hey Pete,

After doing this package to the 1le, what would be next on the list? This would be for a daily driven 1le that is auto crossed and road raced on the weekend 3-6 times a year.

JusticePete 07-29-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlock69RS (Post 6833494)
Hey Pete,

After doing this package to the 1le, what would be next on the list? This would be for a daily driven 1le that is auto crossed and road raced on the weekend 3-6 times a year.

Supercars, but my best guess is you'll be so pleased you won't take the next step unless you get very serious about AC.

Inferno1LE 09-02-2013 02:37 PM

Here is the long awaited on-track review, I added it to the original post. In summary, the Pedders Permagrin Package made a drastic improvement in handling and predictability. It took 3 track days for me to post this review because of a terribly botched alignment, so I apologize for the delay. Pete, thanks again for the help and what a difference!

JusticePete 09-03-2013 12:24 PM

There never was a need to apologize and I want to thank you for your patience and persistence in getting your alignment right. No matter how good the parts, they will drive like *&^% with a poor alignment.

Thank you for choosing Pedders for your 1LE. We appreciate your business. Welcome to the PEDDERS Nation!

Firefighter 09-14-2013 04:18 PM

This plus a set of springs and some 305/35-20 in the rear and I will be a happy SOB suspension wise.

I know the 305's will induce some under steer but the sway bar will hopefully negate this and I will have the extra traction for the fall 2014 cam and head swap...

Inferno1LE 09-14-2013 07:33 PM

Why not go with new rims and put 305's all the way around?

Firefighter 09-14-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno1LE (Post 7002863)
Why not go with new rims and put 305's all the way around?

That is a thought but not in the budget just yet...

Msmall143 10-10-2013 11:01 PM

I'd love some advise. I'd like to lower my 1le for looks, but will only do so if I can improve or maintain stock performance. This is my daily driver which I don't take to a track (yet). Basically I won't sacrifice looks for performance, but if I can have looks and performance it's an option

I was originally only going to buy some lowering springs but I felt I was undoing the work chevy put into the 1le.

What would you suggest.....

Also, I'll be putting some all seasons on for the winter, but tire size will stay the same


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