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-   -   Any negatives to running BMR sways on "stiffest" setting on the street? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309332)

Bmatth1162 07-25-2013 07:08 PM

Any negatives to running BMR sways on "stiffest" setting on the street?
 
I'm having BMR springs and sways installed on Monday, and the way I see it, since I'm paying for aftermarket suspension upgrades, I might as well use the "stiffest" sway bar setting. Is anyone running this "stiff" setting on the street? Any issues? I want the handling to improve as much as possible, but I also understand that TOO tight of a back end will start to hurt handling. Thanks for any advice!

EDIT: I'm mainly looking to help (hopefully eliminate) the understeer, it drives me nuts, and will be doing autocross events every few months if this helps.

LimaCharlie 07-26-2013 12:17 AM

I'm not a suspension expert but sway bars do not change the ride quality of the car. Sways reduce the amount of body roll in turns. The ride quality will change from the springs.
Having your sways on the most aggressive setting will increase the chances of oversteer in turns (which is more desireable than understeer). When you're at the autocross, you'll have to use the throttle to help steer the car correctly.

lscamaro 07-26-2013 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie (Post 6821687)
I'm not a suspension expert but sway bars do not change the ride quality of the car. Sways reduce the amount of body roll in turns. The ride quality will change from the springs.
Having your sways on the most aggressive setting will increase the chances of oversteer in turns (which is more desireable than understeer). When you're at the autocross, you'll have to use the throttle to help steer the car correctly.

Sorry but sway bars do in fact change the quality of the ride

JDP Sales 07-26-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatth1162 (Post 6820611)
I'm having BMR springs and sways installed on Monday, and the way I see it, since I'm paying for aftermarket suspension upgrades, I might as well use the "stiffest" sway bar setting. Is anyone running this "stiff" setting on the street? Any issues? I want the handling to improve as much as possible, but I also understand that TOO tight of a back end will start to hurt handling. Thanks for any advice!

EDIT: I'm mainly looking to help (hopefully eliminate) the understeer, it drives me nuts, and will be doing autocross events every few months if this helps.

I suggest playing with the settings and see what works best for you, your tire selection and your driving style. For me, I think I would try them at middle/middle first and go from there. If you want more oversteer (which you probably will for AutoX ) go to the next stiffest setting on the rear or softer up front. Going too stiff up front will only result more understeer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lscamaro (Post 6821870)
Sorry but sway bars do in fact change the quality of the ride

They only time they effect ride quality in a negative way is when a bump is hit on one side of the car that is unequal to the other side of the car. Being on a stiffer bar/setting will intensify this. As far as cruising down the road on a flat surface, you would never notice a difference until you turn or like I said hit a bump on one side.

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007

Bmatth1162 07-26-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sales@JDP (Post 6823250)
I suggest playing with the settings and see what works best for you, your tire selection and your driving style. For me, I think I would try them at middle/middle first and go from there. If you want more oversteer (which you probably will for AutoX ) go to the next stiffest setting on the rear or softer up front. Going too stiff up front will only result more understeer.

Thanks. I have no problem throttle steering the car, I've learned how to do this with my mustangs (they LOVED to oversteer). What if I ran the front sway bar in the middle setting and the rear sway bar on the stiffest setting? Would this most effectively get rid of understeer while at the same time allowing for some oversteer? Thanks

IneedAZ 07-26-2013 03:21 PM

I have been running them on the stiffer setting ever since the install done by Kyle at BMR...i like it!!

Dizzy82 07-26-2013 03:22 PM

The biggest issue I have with my upgraded sways and endlinks is tripoding when going over an uneven surface.

JDP Sales 07-26-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatth1162 (Post 6823916)
Thanks. I have no problem throttle steering the car, I've learned how to do this with my mustangs (they LOVED to oversteer). What if I ran the front sway bar in the middle setting and the rear sway bar on the stiffest setting? Would this most effectively get rid of understeer while at the same time allowing for some oversteer? Thanks

Sounds like a good plan. But no better way to tell, than to try it and huck it around some corners! :thumbsup:

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007

Bmatth1162 07-26-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sales@JDP (Post 6824102)
Sounds like a good plan. But no better way to tell, than to try it and huck it around some corners! :thumbsup:

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007

Oh no problem there, I'll give it a shot thanks!

I do believe you that too rigid of a front sway will cause understeer, but I'm having trouble understanding why? Can you please explain that a little bit? Thanks again

JDP Sales 07-26-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatth1162 (Post 6824572)
Oh no problem there, I'll give it a shot thanks!

I do believe you that too rigid of a front sway will cause understeer, but I'm having trouble understanding why? Can you please explain that a little bit? Thanks again

It's a lot easier explaining it in person because I can use hand gestures, but I'll attempt anyway. :laugh:

Basically, a sway bar's job is to use the weight of the other side of the vehicle to put torsion on the sway bar and lift the outside of the car to prevent it from "dipping down" or "rolling over" (body roll). When you have body roll, the tires on the outside of the turn get pushed down toward the road and the tires on the inside of the turn rise up.

When the sway bars are stiffened equally, there will not be a change in oversteer/understeer, only significantly less body roll. Now say you have a stiff rear bar and a soft front bar. This allow's the weight to transfer to the front outside tire and will reduce the weight on the rear inside tire in the turn. This gives you more front end grip and less rear grip and allows the vehicle to rotate around the turn. This is often referred to as "lift oversteer". Lift over steer in a RWD is not necessarily a good thing as you can usually make up for a little understeer it with a throttle steering. If you have too much oversteer, you are just going to spin out. The ultimate goal is to find a neutral balance so that when you are on the edge of traction in a turn, all tires will begin to let go evenly and not more so on the front (understeer) or the rear (oversteer).

I hope this helps and if you have any more questions feel free to call, PM or email me. :thumbsup:

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007

429 07-26-2013 07:35 PM

Too tight in the rear makes the car extremely prone to snap oversteer (especially if the front is soft). Full hard (1000%+ harder then stock) is most useful on R-comps, you won't ever see the traction levels with street tires to take advantage of it.

Fraxum 07-26-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429 (Post 6824994)
Too tight in the rear makes the car extremely prone to snap oversteer (especially if the front is soft). Full hard (1000%+ harder then stock) is most useful on R-comps, you won't ever see the traction levels with street tires to take advantage of it.

I had an '11 LS3 SS with the BMR adjustable sways. I started out with the middle setting. There was a little understeer, but it was easy to use a little power to overcome this. Had a track day with it like that and the Camaro represented well.

Later I went to the max setting and the car was dead neutral. But it was a little too easy to go into oversteer, so you had to be very careful. Maybe not snap, but it did make the adrenaline flow a few times. Later I was told that when you use the rear bar to overcome staggered tires, this is the effect you will see.

So I would start with the middle setting and get used to that first. It is easy to bump it up later if you want to try it.

429 07-27-2013 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum (Post 6825321)
I had an '11 LS3 SS with the BMR adjustable sways. I started out with the middle setting. There was a little understeer, but it was easy to use a little power to overcome this. Had a track day with it like that and the Camaro represented well.

Later I went to the max setting and the car was dead neutral. But it was a little too easy to go into oversteer, so you had to be very careful. Maybe not snap, but it did make the adrenaline flow a few times. Later I was told that when you use the rear bar to overcome staggered tires, this is the effect you will see.

So I would start with the middle setting and get used to that first. It is easy to bump it up later if you want to try it.

BMR's regular bar isn't super stiff on full hard, its only around 300% stiffer then stock. I'm talking in the 750%+ range like a lot of race bars are, and some drag bars as well.

Fraxum 07-27-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429 (Post 6826072)
BMR's regular bar isn't super stiff on full hard, its only around 300% stiffer then stock. I'm talking in the 750%+ range like a lot of race bars are, and some drag bars as well.

I was just saying it made the transition a bit touchy. IMO it's a good idea to get used to neutral slowly.


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