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-   -   What Turbo timer will u recommend me? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313750)

Lio Martinez 08-19-2013 12:16 AM

What Turbo timer will u recommend me?
 
For those with turbos who is using a turbo timer!?

What brand!? And us it really recommended even if the car has synthetic oil?

Got Any pictures if the place where the turbo timer was placed?

TCAT 08-19-2013 12:56 AM

I would go as far to say that it's a waste of money man. As long as you drive the car leisurely for 5-10 minutes after aggressive driving, the car has had plenty of time to go back to normal operating conditions especially when using superior synthetic oil and new age turbocharger systems. Spend money elsewhere ;).

Lio Martinez 08-19-2013 12:19 PM

Tcat thanks for the advice bro by the way how u been? What about a boost controller?

uniqueskillz 08-19-2013 12:24 PM

The‘re a wast of money to me as tcat stated. Just stay out of boost when your almost at your destination and you'll be fine.

TCAT 08-19-2013 12:30 PM

Any time man :). I've been good, just working a lot and still trying to have time for different hobbies that I enjoy. A cost effective, yet good turbo boost controller is the AEM Tru-Boost. The gauge can be placed in any pillar you'd like and it's small thankfully. However, the most reliable way of producing the boost you want is to change out the wastegate springs to the boost yiu desire and make sure the car is tuned for it. You won't even be messing around with the boost controller when you get it I bet. Some people think they are going to get crazy and have different maps to switch to, etc. I highly doubt it unless you have the car at the races all the time and have different tunes saved on handheld and then you can change the boost on a boost controller, but that usually just isn't going to happen. I literally got my boost controller because I trust the electronic ones more than manual controllers, and because the gauge also acts as a boost gauge to visually see what it is (which you also won't look at ever because you need to stare at the road). Haha

I wouldn't spend more money than you have to. If you are happy with the way the car feels now, leave it alone, and spend the money elswhere on the car. You'll look back and appreciate the savings. :D

Lio Martinez 08-19-2013 01:44 PM

Thanks any idea on what psi I can do on my car without having to do any extra internal engine block work like spring valves. Piston rings etc.... How much psi can I do? I want I put a JBA catless mid pipes and retune it I'm only running 5.5 psi

TCAT 08-19-2013 02:18 PM

Don't go beyond the 8-10psi range. To be honest, even if you went conservative, something STILL can blow up. It's a crap shoot with forced induction, but at least you'll have less chance of negative things occurring at lower boost levels.

Lio Martinez 08-19-2013 03:38 PM

Tcat will 7 psi be considered a safe zone?

TCAT 08-19-2013 03:49 PM

Perfectly fine man. ;)

jordan 572 08-19-2013 06:56 PM

7 pounds will work but to get a really accurate rating you need a zrl map and software to log it. Otherwise you can't be perfectly sure what your running. To get a proper custom tune youll need to log it anyway so you should just do it from the start imo.

Lio Martinez 08-19-2013 07:56 PM

I'm asking because I have the Turnonetics T76 kit. I'm running 5.5 psi and making 509 RWHP


I have a set of JBA catless mid pipes . I wanna put them increase boost to 7psi and retune it

caper 08-20-2013 08:24 AM

lio, you and I are in the same position at the same time. I just got my car back. I was going to go with the AEM too, but I was wondering what the tune does to cope with the extra boost...seems tcat answered that (nothing), but how does that make sense , wouldn't the car go lean under more boost without added fuel?

btw I also have a BAP I am going to put in when I am retuned, but you have the ZL1 pump, so I assume you are set there. im also going to install my catch can soon too. and HEX vents to get rid of that heat!

TCAT 08-20-2013 09:03 AM

Ideally, anytime you increase boost, it's a good idea to have the car retuned to the new boost levels, especially to ensure optimal running conditions. If the computer is not tuned to deal with the new boost pressure, it still tries to compensate, but not as ideal as if you have a tuner adjust it optimally under load for the new conditions. Many people put a new pulley on the ZL1 and make a lot more power, and never touched the tune, but it's not as optimal as actually tuning for the new conditions. Obviously, with a turbocharger, boost is not increased through a pulley because it's not belt driven so to speak. So, back to the turbocharger and AEM Tru-Boost....to take full advantage of the controller, you would really have multiple tunes made for you at various boost levels you want to run, as well as how you want the car to run in certain situations like 1/4 mile, autocross, street driving, etc. So, you would have tunes saved on a handheld programmer, upload it to the cars computer via OBDII port, and adjust the turbo controller to the boost level that correlated to that tune. The Tru-Boost doesn't have a feature where you just toggle through buttons selecting "Boost- 8psi", or anything like that unfortunately. The boost is increased or decreased by "Duty Cycle" on the gauge, which your tuner will use while tuning. AEM explains Duty Cycle as simply a comparison of the devices on time versus its off time. For example, a duty cycle of 50% inputted on the device means the device is on half the time, and off half the time. A duty cycle of 10% means the device is on 10% of the time, and off 90% of the time. The Tru-Boost solenoid is pulsed to control the pressure going to the wastegate. A higher duty cycle means an increase in boost pressure.

So, with that said, having multiple tunes for various situations and adjusting boost on the gauge gets damn expensive because you'll pay for each new tune, and is usually too much work for most people unless they race a ton. I purchased the AEM Tru-Boost controller because I simply wanted to increase boost electronically without having to change out the wastegate springs to a higher spring pressure (even though this is the most reliable way). Your boost would be what spring pressure are in your wastegates currently, and then the boost controller increases additional boost from there with it's duty cycle operation electronically. I simply have no need to change boost pressure all the time, LOL. Just tune the car to a safe, yet fun boost level, and keep it there regardless. Then, adjust your driving habits from there. :);)

Also, don't skimp on your fuel system. Either go with Dual fuel pumps or the ZL1 pump with ADM's alteration, as well as large enough GOOD injectors to hold up to the power you demand without overstressing them (like Injector Dynamics, who actually has the data to input while tuning. That's huge right there for optimal functionality). If you plan to not increase the injector size and/or the fuel pump(s), be very careful how much you increase boost. You'll be playing with fire, and when something breaks, so will your heart and your wallet.

Lio Martinez 08-20-2013 01:43 PM

Does $725 sounds fair for installation of mid pipes and retune?

TCAT 08-20-2013 02:01 PM

Yep, that's more than fair man. Be VERY careful who you have tune your car. There are a lot of tuners out there that claim to tune LS motors well, but don't. Anyone can make power, but can they make it safely is the question.

jordan 572 08-20-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCAT (Post 6919871)
Yep, that's more than fair man. Be VERY careful who you have tune your car. There are a lot of tuners out there that claim to tune LS motors well, but don't. Anyone can make power, but can they make it safely is the question.

:word: Everything you have said i think is good advice. Personally I just went with springs and didn't deal with the tru boost. For you Lio I would do the same, not to disrespect but you should probably just get a good tune to go with whatever boost level you decide to go with. Otherwise you'll be dealing with many tunes, and adjustments on the tru boost. Since your considering 7lbs your zl1 pump should be pretty good and the kit comes with 60lb injectors vs 52lb in many other kits. But its up to your tuner if he feels your fuel system is lacking. I can't stress how important your tuner is, bad tuners can wreak a stock engine. I am running just shy of 12 lbs but Ted's tune is keeping it together SO FAR. I would seriously consider tuning through Ted, I believe Tcat also is tuned by Ted. There are other tuners also that can easily handle it but Ted has been great to me. Good luck, don't get to excited though anything above 8 and you'll be looking at dual pumps, injectors, suspension, tires, etc. 7 psi is a good number for a fast daily driver. Because we all know its never fast enough.

jrpimp00 08-20-2013 08:37 PM

You don't need to retune everytime you change the PSI. Your tuner needs to adjust your A/F and timing across the range to adjust to the different pressure when they tune it the first time. Just let them know how much boost you think you will run

The_Blur 08-20-2013 09:06 PM

This thread is packed with good advice for every Camaro owner considering a turbo. Listen to TCAT. :thumbsup:

Lio Martinez 08-20-2013 11:01 PM

How can I contact Ted? Where is his shop?

Or how does he work on the tunes? Meaning does he email them?

Or can anyone recommend me any good tuners near Oxnard CA?

Lio Martinez 08-20-2013 11:02 PM

Jordan 572 and TCat will my stock waste gate springs be able to handle 7psi?

And at what psi do I need to consider internal imagine work? Like piston rings etc!!!

Lio Martinez 08-20-2013 11:54 PM

Thanks everyone for all the help

TCAT 08-20-2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Blur (Post 6921676)
This thread is packed with good advice for every Camaro owner considering a turbo. Listen to TCAT. :thumbsup:

Thanks man :D ;). Much appreciated my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lio Martinez (Post 6922167)
How can I contact Ted? Where is his shop?

Or how does he work on the tunes? Meaning does he email them?

Or can anyone recommend me any good tuners near Oxnard CA?

Ted is Ted Jannetty from Jannetty Racing located in Connecticut. He can be contacted via Camaro5 or through phone and email written in the link below:
http://jannettyracing.com/contact_us.shtml

Ted can tune remotely if necessary. He will recommend you purchase a specific SCT Handheld tuner to datalog your driving and various accelerations through the gears. You'll send him the information that the data logging program provides, or rent a dyno for the day and data log on while running on that according to Teds instructions. He will study the data you send and make appropriate corrections, then email you the updated tune, and you'll upload it to the handheld programmer via OBDII port and woolah.

There are also some reputable local tuners available, but we'll help you via PM with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lio Martinez (Post 6922174)
Jordan 572 and TCat will my stock waste gate springs be able to handle 7psi?

And at what psi do I need to consider internal imagine work? Like piston rings etc!!!

It's not that the wastegate springs handle a certain amount of boost, it's the fact that thw wastegate is determining the boost level you'll achieve. I am betting your kit came with 5 pound waste gate springs, so if memory serves well, Turbonetics sells a 7 pound spring as the next increase, and a 9 pound spring following that. I would say to go with a 7 pound wastegate spring, custom tune, and call it a day. Chances are, with the stock Turbo kits injectors and a 9 pound wastegate spring and midpipes, I think you'll go beyond the duty cycle of your injectors, which is just plain stupid. They won't be able to handle the demand. That brings me to the next point, do you have an upgraded fuel pump? If I were you, I wouldn't increase the wastegate spring pressure more than it's at currently until you get a fuel pump that cab deliver on the level you desire. Otherwise, you are playing with fire man. You don't want to be "that" guy that blows the crap out of his new engine and then tries to figure out how to fund a very expensive rebuild. So, if you musttttt, get your midpipes on, and retune it the way it is. Otherwise, if you want higher boost levels, purchase a reputable higher demand fuel pump and injectors, get the midpipes on then retune.

Trust me, it's VERY easy to get caught up in the dyno numbers game and always wanting more power. You can also tell that with more power means more money because the need for parts that support the new power, whether that be fuel system related, drivetrain, engine, or suspension gets more prevalent. There has to be a time where you just drive the car, and say "Damn, this car is fun and fast".

Also, it's not just about boost pressure but also total power made that leaves you at greater risk for engine issues, and the tune has a ton to do with that too not just boost. Some people are safe at 7psi and others last at 10+, but it varies greatly because so many factors are at play. Nothing says you won't damage the stock engine internals as you are now, but on average, people do very well at the 7-8psi range, and above that it's possible you'll be fine and possibly not. You have to play it somewhat safe and do what you feel is comfortable. Ideally, you'd want forged internals before going the forced induction route but it's a large expense that most people don't want to pay. However, it's a nice safety cushion once boost is introduced. One thing is relatively stable though, the more power you make without proper supporting mods, the more at risk your engine will be.

Lio Martinez 08-21-2013 10:26 PM

Thanks for all the info and your valuable time replying Tcat

TCAT 08-21-2013 11:45 PM

Anytime my friend. Now go drive that bitchin car and enjoy every second of it! :D

SSE 4 2SS 08-22-2013 02:03 AM

This is a general statement not directed at any individual...

Tommy, you hit the nail on the head with the statement about enough is enough... If I may add... To those wanting more and more... Be careful what you wish for... It's easy to get these cars beyond what is considered street friendly.. For every power upgrade, you trade off some drivability.. It's incremental until one day you realize it's not fun to drive anymore... Some are willing to give this up, most are not...

You as an individual have to give an honest self appraisal of your desires... Bearing in mind someone will always be faster, quicker, etc...

EXPENSIVE is only the beginning... Another aspect is... Can you as an individual honestly afford to replace... Insert item... Turbos, heads, valves, pistons, cranks, rods, blocks... If it breaks... Without breaking the bank, making others do without...

These cars are a ton of fun stock... Sometimes I've wished I could go back and do it over... I'm still trying to make a pass as the fastest 5th gen in a standing mile... Here is a short list...
Blocks... 2nd one, third rebuild
Turbos 7 & 8 going in the car... These are not training turbos either...
Clutch... 3rd one... Thanks to The street slayer, don't need another... Ever...
Drive shaft... 4th one...
Heads... 3rd set... Turbo manifolds, 2nd set...
Injectors, third or 4th set...
Plugs, change them out almost like underwear...
Transmission... 6th... Five iterations of the factory then a purpose built trans that cost roughly 3 times a factory replacement... It handles the power and shifts where the previous ones did not...
Fuel pumps... Damn, let's see... Original... Lingenfelter duals, outgrew those, went aero motive big boy... Junk... Then a Weldon external... And the duals from Lingenfelter back in the tank, feeding the Weldon.. And the stand alone in the cell for nitrous...

My point is, as above, be careful and absolutely honest with yourself about you goals and what you are willing to give up to achieve them... It isn't long before the cash pits we call modded cars are no longer what we wanted to start with... And you wil almost never recoup your investment...

I had a guy at the Texas Mile watch me blow up a turbo and offered me a huge sum of money for the car and trailer while we were fixing it... I turned it down. I have no regrets about that but I was already in so deep I knew what to expect...

Be honest and you may not be disappointed... I had a goal and we are close...

RACECAR....


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