Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/index.php)
-   Forced Induction - V8 (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74)
-   -   TVS 2300 efficiency range RPM, pulley size, and engine size (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316122)

Turbo99 09-01-2013 01:09 PM

TVS 2300 efficiency range RPM, pulley size, and engine size
 
I would like to discuss the TVS 2300 efficiency on different engine sizes and pulley configurations. I don't want to discuss cam and headers sizes as we know this will vary. I am more interested in blower speed and pulley sizes. Not even really boost so much as heads,cam and others can change this.

I am looking to do an engine build next year and was leaning towards a 416 but I want to keep the TVS 2300 for awhile, and then upgrade to a centri or turbo. I more than likely am set on 10.2-10.5 compression. I have heard that some say the 2300 has issues on larger CI engines producing track times and I want to know where it falls off and why.

I will post some graphs from TVS and we can discuss and see what we come up with.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...aps/2300VE.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...s/2300Temp.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...Efficiency.jpg
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1251494505

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1251494316

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1251043833

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 01:50 PM

Those charts are outdated since most of us don't have a stock TVS 2300.

With the additions of the ported snout / 102 TB
OD Rear Cogs
OD front balancer
8 Rib kits
Spacer

The charts don't carry much weight.

Not to mention that they don't bring belt slip into the equation which is a TVS trademark when upping the boost.

The blower is what it is. An OEM quality product that will give you some mild gains. Nothing more, nothing less.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 02:11 PM

Jamie,

The one of the charts have OD cog and I understand belt slip and all the variables. I want to see if anyone can come up with a RPM of the blower where it falls off. Everything else can be figured close enough the play with.

From what I can see it 18,000-19000 is about as fast as you want to go and still be efficient. With that being said I just wanted to see if other see the same data and from there you should be able to calculate what pulley setup will get you there and as you add cam, head work, compression, belt slip and other well that doesn't matter if you already are running a set-up and can figure your loss.

I never been one to just say because so & so said it doesn't work it must not work. I just want to see how others interpret the data.
From what I see on the charts it looks like if you spin the motor 18K rpm on a smaller engine the efficiency falls off, where the same blower at the same speed on a bigger engine make less boost but is more efficient.

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6968650)
Jamie,

The one of the charts have OD cog and I understand belt slip and all the variables. I want to see if anyone can come up with a RPM of the blower where it falls off. Everything else can be figured close enough the play with.

From what I can see it 18,000-19000 is about as fast as you want to go and still be efficient. With that being said I just wanted to see if other see the same data and from there you should be able to calculate what pulley setup will get you there and as you add cam, head work, compression, belt slip and other well that doesn't matter if you already are running a set-up and can figure your loss.

I never been one to just say because so & so said it doesn't work it must not work. I just want to see how others interpret the data.
From what I see on the charts it looks like if you spin the motor 18K rpm on a smaller engine the efficiency falls off, where the same blower at the same speed on a bigger engine make less boost but is more efficient.


You need to spin the blower so much faster on the 416 to make the same boost as on a 376. The heat you create by spinning the blower so fast negates any gain you would have made in the power. To make 16 psi on a 416 with the 2300 you'd prob spin the pulley's right off!! Not really, but you get my point.
I didn't stay at a Holiday in last night and come up with this shit on my own. I've watched all the 416+ tvs runs slow as shit then the cars either don't race it anymore or change it to a whipple. I don't have the hard data to back that up, it's just my observation.
If the 416 was such a good option for the maggie my car would be done by now. Ted agrees with the "theory" that the smaller the cubes the better the efficiency.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 02:25 PM

I am not saying I don't believe you, but as you said you have no data other than what Ted says. I respect his opinion and he may be correct. I am asking someone to show me.
I would never expect to make the same boost on a larger engine, that's the beauty of a larger engine is you don't have to. I also think too many people have been talked into running 9.7 or less compression on a larger engine and that will make you suffer with a smaller blower for sure. That's why I am looking at 10.5 CR for my build.

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6968684)
I am not saying I don't believe you, but as you said you have no data other than what Ted says. I respect his opinion and he may be correct. I am asking someone to show me.
I would never expect to make the same boost on a larger engine, that's the beauty of a larger engine is you don't have to. I also think too many people have been talked into running 9.7 or less compression on a larger engine and that will make you suffer with a smaller blower for sure. That's why I am looking at 10.5 CR for my build.


It's not what Teds says. More of real world results that I have seen. I just meant that if Ted felt a 416 would be better I would have one. I don't really know where Ted stands on this.

But again, no fact, so I understand your point. You'd like someone to come and say the blower will work because a+b=c or vice versa. I'd like to see that too!!

In regards to your future plans of changing the FI, I'd go with the 416. We have the old block at ERL getting done to that for the next go round. Or for when I hit the lottery.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 02:33 PM

Yeah I just don't want to get rid of the Maggie as soon as I do a build, but I don't want to put it back on and go slower either.

Like you said I would like to see a+b=c kind of thing I know its just math at that point but if it points out it won't work then I won't waste my time.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 04:25 PM

I guess my point is to find what the MAX. blower speed of the 2300 is @ 100% efficiency.

I was even thinking of a 402CI with the 6L iron block but not sure that is worth it.

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969017)
I guess my point is to find what the MAX. blower speed of the 2300 is @ 100% efficiency.

I was even thinking of a 402CI with the 6L iron block but not sure that is worth it.

Talk to Magnuson. Only they will know the real deal.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 04:43 PM

I would have to guess they would be reading the graphs they have...from above

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969085)
I would have to guess they would be reading the graphs they have...from above

I spoke with Jon way back in the day and he was able to tell me the max blower speed and what pulley would make what boost. I just don't remember what he told me though.:facepalm:

old motorhead 09-01-2013 05:07 PM

The next ls motor I build for a tvs 2300 will have a 3.8" stroke. About 396ish cubes. A little more stroke, but not so much that you make durability compromises. Not saying there's anything wrong with the 4" stroke if that floats your boat.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old motorhead (Post 6969161)
The next ls motor I build for a tvs 2300 will have a 3.8" stroke. About 396ish cubes. A little more stroke, but not so much that you make durability compromises. Not saying there's anything wrong with the 4" stroke if that floats your boat.

That CI is the range I was thinking, 390-405, I was looking hard at the 4" stroke 6L iron block for a 402, I haven't seen any 3.8" stroker kits out there. Do you have a link to a crank?

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969162)
That CI is the range I was thinking, 390-405, I was looking hard at the 4" stroke 6L iron block for a 402, I haven't seen any 3.8" stroker kits out there. Do you have a link to a crank?

I was looking at the Livernois mini stroker. Seemed like it would be the ticket. Time to get it was the determining factor.

http://www.manleyperformance.com/nic...s_cranks.shtml

Turbo99 09-01-2013 05:20 PM

All those Manley cranks are 4.0-4.1. I saw the mini stroker too thinking a possibility.

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969178)
All those Manley cranks are 4.0-4.1. I saw the mini stroker too thinking a possibility.

Oh, you want a 3.8 crank.... Sorry



I would talk to Andy at Livernois. He can tell you what parts they use in the build.

Turbo99 09-01-2013 05:29 PM

Not for sure just thinking in terms of smaller than 416 like a so it has to be less than 4" crank. Anyway now we are drifting away from my original thought of blower speed.

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969217)
Not for sure just thinking in terms of smaller than 416 like a so it has to be less than 4" crank. Anyway now we are drifting away from my original thought of blower speed.

Drift away. No one else seems to give a shit.:sm0:

Turbo99 09-01-2013 05:39 PM

Well as long as your around it bound to get replies and looks....and off topic..LMAO

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969242)
Well as long as your around it bound to get replies and looks....and off topic..LMAO

Unfortunately the replies I generate often have nothing to do with the original topic!!:facepalm:

Turbo99 09-01-2013 05:43 PM

I know..

lexlueger 09-01-2013 06:05 PM

I think I remember reading max efficiency was around 20K. I've heard of them being spun from 22-28K. Not sure who would do that though:crazy: :whistle:

Turbo99 09-01-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexlueger (Post 6969310)
I think I remember reading max efficiency was around 20K. I've heard of them being spun from 22-28K. Not sure who would do that though:crazy: :whistle:

I see you have a 416 w/ 2300, have you tracked your car? and What is your compression ratio?

Supercharged SS 09-01-2013 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969328)
I see you have a 416 w/ 2300, have you tracked your car? and What is your compression ratio?

If he tracked his car and it went fast you'd would know about it!!:sm0:

lexlueger 09-01-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo99 (Post 6969328)
I see you have a 416 w/ 2300, have you tracked your car? and What is your compression ratio?

Not yet, working on the gremlins. Compression 9:5:1


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.