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-   -   Added NPP Exhaust to 1LE Dyno Comparison (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316448)

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 12:52 PM

Added NPP Exhaust to 1LE Dyno Comparison
 
1 Attachment(s)
2013 1LE Standard then changed to NPP

Test conditions:
  • The same car and same dyno were used for both tests.
  • No air quality info available, but the first day was mild for late August in GA. The second day was a little warmer and more humid.
  • Stock Exhaust test 8/29 10:45 - 2 pulls
  • NPP Exhaust test 8/30 10:15 - 2 pulls
  • DynoJet 224X (Vengeance Racing, Cumming GA)
Notable items:
  • Got the NPPs from Ofer at 2SSRS@Gen5diy.
  • No vacuum lines connected to the NPP mufflers. They are spring loaded and stay wide open at all times.
  • Oil and filter changed between tests. (first oil change)
  • Approximately 30 minutes drive to the dyno.
  • Tested within 15 mins of arrival.
  • Less than 100 miles between dyno tests.
  • No fuse pulls or ECU resets within several weeks of this testing.

Six videos attempting to capture the sound differences:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...wwx0KROmJmXGIU




Blue is Standard Exh - Red is NPP Exh

gajagfan 09-03-2013 01:00 PM

Thank you for doing this. Not having air quality hurts the analysis, and I am sure the heat and humidity of the second day had an effect, and we have no idea on barometric pressure, but I think it supports the my theory that the NPP system is worth little to nothing in terms of power. For those that like the noise, it may still be the best bang for the buck. Again thanks for the effort. Very interesting.

Bad70supreme 09-03-2013 01:28 PM

What I see is 10 more HP at peak revs, and a tade more tq! Even though peak numbers are the same, you can see that up top the engine is breathing and pulling a tad stronger! I would not say it does nothing for power when it clearly does... Add some mods and that top end with the NPP exhaust will start to show even more! So if you want to keep a bone stock car it's fine, but add standard boltons I would want the NPP as I think it would clearly perform better.

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme (Post 6974703)
What I see is 10 more HP at peak revs, and a tade more tq! Even though peak numbers are the same, you can see that up top the engine is breathing and pulling a tad stronger! I would not say it does nothing for power when it clearly does... Add some mods and that top end with the NPP exhaust will start to show even more! So if you want to keep a bone stock car it's fine, but add standard boltons I would want the NPP as I think it would clearly perform better.


Ron at Vengeance pointed out the same and marked the graph accordingly.

gajagfan 09-03-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme (Post 6974703)
What I see is 10 more HP at peak revs, and a tade more tq! Even though peak numbers are the same, you can see that up top the engine is breathing and pulling a tad stronger! I would not say it does nothing for power when it clearly does... Add some mods and that top end with the NPP exhaust will start to show even more! So if you want to keep a bone stock car it's fine, but add standard boltons I would want the NPP as I think it would clearly perform better.

Making a bit more power past the shift point does not mean much to me. I am all for non-stock cars, but kind of like to see a bit more bang for the buck. I am not knocking anyone that went the NPP route, I just can not justify it. I do see your point if cam and head mods are made and shift points are going to be raised. It may make a difference at that point, but then I would think a complete exhaust system would be in order.

dixonk 09-03-2013 01:53 PM

Only real benefit I see is looks and weight.

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixonk (Post 6974790)
Only real benefit I see is looks and weight.

I realize it's a matter of taste, but the change in sound is a significant benefit IMO

2cnd chance 09-03-2013 02:37 PM

Could it benefit from a CAI system? Maybe if the engine breathed in better the benefit would be more manifest.

Bad70supreme 09-03-2013 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6974776)
Making a bit more power past the shift point does not mean much to me. I am all for non-stock cars, but kind of like to see a bit more bang for the buck. I am not knocking anyone that went the NPP route, I just can not justify it. I do see your point if cam and head mods are made and shift points are going to be raised. It may make a difference at that point, but then I would think a complete exhaust system would be in order.

No catback is a good bang for the buck on a stock car. It's nice for a factory upgrade and definetly sounds how it should! The stock SS exhaust Sucks, so if I were to buy a 1le I personally would have liked to have the NPP. I just built a 3" system for my car and it made a huge difference over the stock pipes I had, but my car has a cam.

Anaconda 09-03-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southern Comfort (Post 6974834)
I realize it's a matter of taste, but the change in sound is a significant benefit IMO

Did you get a chance to weigh it? Not sure if anyone has made a concrete difference in weight between the stock exhaust vs NPP. Just curious.

TPAJETSKI 09-03-2013 03:08 PM

No way I could justify almost a grand for that. It may not sound as refined but changing mufflers or muffler delete seems like a better move from a financial standpoint. The twin pipes look cool. Just not 1K dollar cool.

gajagfan 09-03-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme (Post 6975001)
No catback is a good bang for the buck on a stock car. It's nice for a factory upgrade and definetly sounds how it should! The stock SS exhaust Sucks, so if I were to buy a 1le I personally would have liked to have the NPP. I just built a 3" system for my car and it made a huge difference over the stock pipes I had, but my car has a cam.

When you say sucks, are you referring to performance with stock HP, performance with modified HP, or sound?

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPAJETSKI (Post 6975026)
No way I could justify almost a grand for that. It may not sound as refined but changing mufflers or muffler delete seems like a better move from a financial standpoint. The twin pipes look cool. Just not 1K dollar cool.

Can you share your 1k dollar reference?
I have $600 in this not counting the oil change or dyno time.

Camaro_Corvette 09-03-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6974630)
Thank you for doing this. Not having air quality hurts the analysis, and I am sure the heat and humidity of the second day had an effect, and we have no idea on barometric pressure, but I think it supports the my theory that the NPP system is worth little to nothing in terms of power. For those that like the noise, it may still be the best bang for the buck. Again thanks for the effort. Very interesting.

I guess that's better than what you have said in the past. Glad we can finally put this to rest. Every little bit counts...
Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6618168)
Make no istake, NPP frees up no horsepower. NONE! You folks need to stop it. NPP is the modern day equivelent to glass packs!

:popcorn: Seems like it adds 9 to me....:popcorn:

gajagfan 09-03-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette (Post 6975069)
I guess that's better than what you have said in the past. Glad we can finally put this to rest. Every little bit counts...

:popcorn: Seems like it adds 9 to me....:popcorn:

Adding 9 hp past the peak HP and shift point is like pissing in a dark suit....no one really notices. I still feel that is you are not buying it for the sound, its not a good value at all. I have not changed my opinion, just maybe stated it in a more politically correct way! To each his own.

PYROLYSIS 09-03-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6975086)
Adding 9 hp past the peak HP and shift point is like pissing in a dark suit....no one really notices. I still feel that is you are not buying it for the sound, its not a good value at all. I have not changed my opinion, just maybe stated it in a more politically correct way! To each his own.

Nobody expected it to add 60 HP.

Bad70supreme 09-03-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan (Post 6975029)
When you say sucks, are you referring to performance with stock HP, performance with modified HP, or sound?

When I say it sucks I mean it sucks! The sound sucks, there is none! It performs on a stock or lightly modded car fine but that's about it. What else is there to say about it.

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaconda (Post 6975015)
Did you get a chance to weigh it? Not sure if anyone has made a concrete difference in weight between the stock exhaust vs NPP. Just curious.

I see 6 lbs total lighter than stock.
That is the parts I took off weigh 6 more than what I put in.

Dropspeed 09-03-2013 04:01 PM

I purchased my NPP so I am able to control the noise level inside the cabin with a switch.....I also like the look of the 4 tips vs 2

-Matt

gajagfan 09-03-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS (Post 6975152)
Nobody expected it to add 60 HP.

Never said they did. My point is HP past the point you should shift the car at for max performance is not of much value. It was not a comment on quantity.

Bad70supreme 09-03-2013 04:50 PM

That's not past the shift point, you don't shift at peak you shift a few hundred past it. So that would be valuable to have that extra 10hp at the wheels in my eyes, my car peaks at 6400 but likes to be shifted at 6700 into 3rd for best trap speed! Before my cam I ran it right up to the rev limiter for my best times.

joelster 09-03-2013 07:00 PM

Changing the oil can have an effect on power output. You should have left it in there. Older oil will be slightly thinner and rob slightly less power versus fresh oil.

jksynergy 09-03-2013 07:08 PM

Thanks OP for posting. Interesting findings and makes my decision to order NPP for our 1LE a little more challenging.

Southern Comfort 09-03-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelster (Post 6975656)
Changing the oil can have an effect on power output. You should have left it in there. Older oil will be slightly thinner and rob slightly less power versus fresh oil.

Yes Sir - I agree, and posted it in the spirit of full disclosure.
But I wouldn't expect factory oil with 1300 miles would be significantly different from fresh oil with 50 miles. Assuming it were thinner, I would expect the new oil run to be lower power across the board, maybe worse at higher RPM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jksynergy (Post 6975686)
Thanks OP for posting. Interesting findings and makes my decision to order NPP for our 1LE a little more challenging.

Unless you change the manifolds and cats I wouldn't expect much of power difference within the normal operating ranges. I wanted the NPP style and was pleasantly surprised with the NPP sound.

WHAMMO 09-03-2013 08:52 PM

I still dont understand the complains about the NPP; installed from factory, cheap, better looking, warranty, free flowing that can support huge HP, great sound and lighter. Show me what other catback adds for HP versus for the price. Go ahead, buy a damn 1300$ catback and stop complaining.

My NPP sounds wicked with high flow cats(2x louder!!). With headers, it would sound absolutly crazy and loud, but I would have the ability to control the sound. I mean its a win win.

Great post OP, congrats! The NPP does have a very unique sound and it will hold a great value, like the old SLP dual dual in the 4th Gen.


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