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-   -   Install lowering springs have problem (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320594)

Rctreece 09-29-2013 04:43 PM

Install lowering springs have problem
 
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I put on new springs today and noticed the strut covers don't go all the way down like they used to. Is this correct or is something wrong?

Bmatth1162 09-29-2013 05:20 PM

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Nah you're good, that's just how it is with lowering springs and McPherson struts. Here's a picture of mine to make you feel better...

Attachment 560769

Bmatth1162 09-29-2013 05:21 PM

Sorry it's sideways (I don't know how to right it) but you can see we have the same looking strut covers

menendez1293 09-29-2013 05:24 PM

That happened to me when I had to remove the struts to get the Strut tower brace installed. Still on factory springs though

Apex Chase 09-29-2013 05:26 PM

It is completely normal. Nothing to worry about.

Dizzy82 09-29-2013 05:27 PM

Very normal.

UF4LIFE102SS 09-29-2013 05:30 PM

Mine look like that also.:thumbsup:

2010SLVRBULIT 09-29-2013 05:35 PM

yup, just get covers for them..

Rctreece 09-29-2013 05:56 PM

Damn I just pulled them out

Rctreece 09-29-2013 06:53 PM

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Oh well, I guess I am just well versed in doing these.

Rctreece 09-29-2013 06:55 PM

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Another

oldfriend 09-29-2013 06:59 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatth1162 (Post 7048773)
Sorry it's sideways (I don't know how to right it) but you can see we have the same looking strut covers

Here you go

BMR Sales 09-30-2013 10:04 AM

That little space between the retaining washer and the shock tower gives the washer clearance to pivot when you turn the steering wheel of the car so like everyone else said it is perfectly normal and you are good to go.

JusticePete 09-30-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rctreece (Post 7048670)
I put on new springs today and noticed the strut covers don't go all the way down like they used to. Is this correct or is something wrong?

Watch and see why the space is there.


camarosspower 10-01-2013 10:34 PM

I done this same thing too today and started freaking out. I'll do the rear tomorrow. What should I expect?

JusticePete 10-01-2013 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camarosspower (Post 7055346)
I done this same thing too today and started freaking out. I'll do the rear tomorrow. What should I expect?

Here is everything you need to know for tomorrow.


Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs


Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro :paddle:

http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/graph...0001/81260.jpg

If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the :rules:

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...93038235_n.jpg

Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use those lame camber eccentric bolts on a Camaro. EVER!

http://www.johndow.com/files/uploads/P81_tc614.jpg

Anyone that tells you different, have them call me :cool:

Pedders foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are Suspension specialists committed to delivering a Pedders Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what Pedders is all about. Our solution is a set of cadmium plated eXtreme Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local Pedders Dealer can create a slot to provide Castor adjustment with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...06982464_n.jpg

For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like th Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. Pedders made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...30379495_o.jpg

Step one requires the technician to drill two holes in the bracket.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...54f6346900.gif

Step two requires CAREFUL GRINDING. We use the two holes to make the grinding process more accurate while the technician creates a slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is Pedders Perfect.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...54f6350559.gif

When assembled the Cadmium plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A fully Pedderised Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. We can do a road course style alignment and your Camaro will not pull. This is because the Pedders component have made the suspension more stable by reducing excess motion. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. We will adjust them on the alignment rack. Here is the installed eccentric.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...54f635b15b.gif

Alignments are Pedders core business so we decided to make the front camber screw part of the Camaro Alignment Bolt Kit. To install the Pedders Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. LocTite Blue is ideal for this.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...7fb69b1bb5.gif

Pedders Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with approximately 2 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, Pedders alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a Pedders eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolt kits.

To get the aggressive alignment we prefer Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...22819981_n.jpg

Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...92798528_n.jpg

We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...12067811_n.jpg

Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or Pedders coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allow it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the stut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

Maxed out for Negative Camber

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...18916863_n.jpg

Neutral Position i.e. The same position as the OEM Mount.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...88923740_o.jpg

FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 / Pedderised Hardcore Track Alignment with Appropriate Tires

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -3.5 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and NO Strut Tower Bar.
Camber : -4.00 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and a Strut Tower Bar
Toe: OUT 0.50
Total Toe OUT 1.00

Rear
Camber -0.80
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit and Dual Bearing Cambers Plates are Required.

Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...18779633_o.jpg
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...98810248_o.jpg

Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...41eabdb5a9.jpg
http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...f88ebdd5b1.jpg

NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.

camarosspower 10-02-2013 05:48 AM

Thanks Pete. I'll probably just take it to a alignment shop after I get through installing. My main question is should everything go smooth with the rear springs or will I have something that will not be in the same place as stock?

JusticePete 10-02-2013 07:43 AM

It is straight forward. Do one side at a time so you have a reference point.

1chasingspeed 10-02-2013 09:13 PM

I'm glad I read this post, because I'm considering doing the lowering springs also, and I would have freaked out if I saw them looking like that after an install. I want to do them myself, but I'm worried I'll run out of patience, or something will go wrong. So I'm considering them, but I don't want to mess up the ride quality. Before I bought my car, I test drove one that had been lowered, and it rode so bad I thought all of them did. So I test drove the one I ended up buying and loved it. So does anyone have any suggestions on springs that will lower my car about an inch without sacrificing ride quality? I don't want it to ride anymore more stiff than it does.

JusticePete 10-02-2013 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1chasingspeed (Post 7058054)
I'm glad I read this post, because I'm considering doing the lowering springs also, and I would have freaked out if I saw them looking like that after an install. I want to do them myself, but I'm worried I'll run out of patience, or something will go wrong. So I'm considering them, but I don't want to mess up the ride quality. Before I bought my car, I test drove one that had been lowered, and it rode so bad I thought all of them did. So I test drove the one I ended up buying and loved it. So does anyone have any suggestions on springs that will lower my car about an inch without sacrificing ride quality? I don't want it to ride anymore more stiff than it does.

Ride quality is subjective. Installation plays a role in ride quality. If the bushings are not timed, ride quality suffers. If you are on after market wheels and lower profile tires, the shorter side wall takes away more ride quality than the lowering coils. Think of the sidewall as a spring. The shorter it is the harsher the ride. Combine a low profile tire, heavier than stock wheel and lowering coils and you'll see a rather significant reduction in ride quality.

If we haven't scared you away our 220032 and 220033 lowering coils are state of the art.




Road & Track Article Link

camarosspower 10-02-2013 10:10 PM

I finished my rear springs today . I'm wondering if everybody else unbolted the trailing arms toe rods upper control arms etc . The way that I finished my installation was by leaving both bolts (the one that holds the struts and the one from the lower control arm) loose and then tighten them up once the car was in the ground. Did I do this right or did I mess up big time? I plan on getting the car aligned tomorrow.

JusticePete 10-02-2013 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camarosspower (Post 7058210)
I finished my rear springs today . I'm wondering if everybody else unbolted the trailing arms toe rods upper control arms etc . The way that I finished my installation was by leaving both bolts (the one that holds the struts and the one from the lower control arm) loose and then tighten them up once the car was in the ground. Did I do this right or did I mess up big time? I plan on getting the car aligned tomorrow.

You did well.

At the alignment shop they will have to loosen the rear camber bolts, the RLCA inner bolts. Ask them to jounce th car several times with those bolts loose. Up front the inner LCA bolts are not part of the alignment, but those bushings are very strong. Ask them to loosen those two bolts, jounce the car and then tighten them.

camarosspower 10-03-2013 06:03 AM

Thank you pete

Rctreece 10-05-2013 01:32 PM

My ride feels about the same as before. Problem is that I went to get a alignment today and shop said that it was to low to get on their rack. I will have to take it somewhere else. The other place said they could do it but said the recommend specs we're going to cause a lot of tire wear so he recommended something else. I guess I will go with his specs???

JusticePete 10-05-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rctreece (Post 7066088)
My ride feels about the same as before. Problem is that I went to get it alignment today and shop said that it was to low to get on their rack. I will have to take it somewhere else. The other place said they could do it but said the recommend specs we're going to cause a lot of tire wear so he recommended something else. I guess I will go with his specs???

I hear that all the time as do our clients. We ignore it. Use our Aggressive Street specs. The increase in tire wear is maybe 10%.


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