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-   -   The easiest way to grease your knuckle bushins without removing them (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320813)

10 2SS/RS 6M 09-30-2013 09:22 PM

The easiest way to grease your knuckle bushins without removing them
 
6 Attachment(s)
If you have upgraded your rear trailing arms or have just replaced the bushings with polyurethane bushings on the knuckle, they have to be greased (see pic w/bushing on pin) this was about a year and the half without nothing but the installation grease that came with the bushings and trailing arms.
I drilled a 1/16'' hole in the center of the knuckle where the two poly bushings meet inside the knuckle, I drilled a small hole to keep the strength of the knuckle, then dilled a 1/4'' wide hole about a 1/4'' deep to thread the grease fitting in, I threaded a 90 degree grease fitting on the knuckle due to the style of the trailing arms.
Now I can grease the knuckle bushings without removing the trailing arms, I don't have to even remove the wheels now.
I just thought I'd share this if anyone else would like to try this easy method of greasing these bushings, you see in the picture what happens if you don't grease them! And what happens when you use the wrong grease! >>>And your car should be aligned any time the trailing arms are removed!
I'll also explain how all this came to boot. I was having movement from the toe links that I all bought from BMR, now I'm not downgrading BMR at all. They actually helped me out a lot, they replaced all the bushings at no charge, even the knuckle bushings, and I'm glad they did because I wasn't going to replace that bushing due to I have never used a petroleum based grease on them, but with no grease and weather you get wear and rust as seen in the picture, but I plan on keeping all these bushings greased well, I been using this synthetic grease called SuperLube from BMR all is good now. I still don't like IRS's for drag racing but I'm not putting a solid axle under there either, so I got a lot of work to do still!
Thanks BMR!

JusticePete 09-30-2013 11:53 PM

I understand why you installed the zerk fitting, but it may not work as you planned. With a two part urethane bushing the ferule rotates inside the bushing and the bushing does not move. If the load bearing surface of the bushing is greased, the are of the bushing that fills the hole in the arm or knuckle, it facilitates lateral movement of the arm across the bushing which is not desirable. The purpose of installing the urethane bushing is to reduce lateral movement. This is especially true where engine or brake heat softens urethane and lube becomes more liquid. Some times less is more.

http://www.peddersusa.com/files/imag...20Surfaces.jpg
http://www.peddersusa.com/files/imag...%20Surface.jpg


Link to Bushing Lubrication and Installation Guide


Detailed Bushing Installation Guide

When installing a new urethane bush you want to lubricate only the moving portion of the bush. When you know what moves you know what to lube. The bush does not move. The bush remains stationary in the loop of the arm it is installed in. The ferule inside the new Pedders urethane bush moves. The ferule rotates inside of the bush so we lubricate the hole for the ferule.

Urethane bushes have ferule holes that are designed to retain the special Molybdenum blended lubricant used by Pedders. Pedders lube retains lubricity under the most severe conditions. Make certain that the inner hole is thoroughly coated and no Pedders red material can be seen before inserting the ferule. Wipe off the excess lube that collected on the end of the ferule as it passed through the bush.

The most common installation error made is lubricating the load bearing surface of a urethane bush. If you lubricate the load bearing surface the bush slips and slides in the arm loop. This undesirable motion creates instability. This is most commonly seen with sway bar bushes sliding out of the clamp or two part control arm bushes sliding through the arm.

Steel jacketed rubber and urethane bushes should never be lubricated as they are pressed into the the arm loop. Pedders highly recommends the use of sleeve retention compounds. The loop should be grease and oil free as should the new bush steel jacket. Apply LocTite 680 in a single bead line around the lower portion of the steel jacket. Set the bush in place on the new arm and press it in with you hydraulic press. Use a carefully selected press plate or socket to protect the exposed rubber or urethane material.

For eXtreme Motorsports, Armored or Commercial applications staking the arm is a Best Practice at Pedders USA. To make certain that the steel jackets do not slip under these most extreme conditions, stake the arms. Use a center punch to stake, dimple the arms. Think of the arm as the face of a clock. We use three rows of dimples.

Row 1: set the first dimple at 12, the second at 3, the third at 6 and the fourth at 9.
Row 2: 1, 4, 7: and 10.
Row 3: 2, 5, 8, 11.
They don't need to be deep. A firm blow with a moderate size hammer is sufficient.
Clean the arms surface to be grease free
Clean the bush jacket to be grease free
Apply the retaining compound
Press in the bush

Additional Sleeve Retention Compounds
BOSSŪ 207 Anaerobic Bearing/Sleeve Retaining Compound
35143 Permatex 640 Sleeve Retaining Compound 6 ML Tube
CRC Sleeve Retaining Compound

10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7052550)
I understand why you installed the zerk fitting, but it may not work as you planned. With a two part urethane bushing the ferule rotates inside the bushing and the bushing does not move. If the load bearing surface of the bushing is greased, the are of the bushing that fills the hole in the arm or knuckle, it facilitates lateral movement of the arm across the bushing which is not desirable. The purpose of installing the urethane bushing is to reduce lateral movement. This is especially true where engine or brake heat softens urethane and lube becomes more liquid. Some times less is more.

http://www.peddersusa.com/files/imag...20Surfaces.jpg
http://www.peddersusa.com/files/imag...%20Surface.jpg


Link to Bushing Lubrication and Installation Guide


Detailed Bushing Installation Guide

When installing a new urethane bush you want to lubricate only the moving portion of the bush. When you know what moves you know what to lube. The bush does not move. The bush remains stationary in the loop of the arm it is installed in. The ferule inside the new Pedders urethane bush moves. The ferule rotates inside of the bush so we lubricate the hole for the ferule.

Urethane bushes have ferule holes that are designed to retain the special Molybdenum blended lubricant used by Pedders. Pedders lube retains lubricity under the most severe conditions. Make certain that the inner hole is thoroughly coated and no Pedders red material can be seen before inserting the ferule. Wipe off the excess lube that collected on the end of the ferule as it passed through the bush.

The most common installation error made is lubricating the load bearing surface of a urethane bush. If you lubricate the load bearing surface the bush slips and slides in the arm loop. This undesirable motion creates instability. This is most commonly seen with sway bar bushes sliding out of the clamp or two part control arm bushes sliding through the arm.

Steel jacketed rubber and urethane bushes should never be lubricated as they are pressed into the the arm loop. Pedders highly recommends the use of sleeve retention compounds. The loop should be grease and oil free as should the new bush steel jacket. Apply LocTite 680 in a single bead line around the lower portion of the steel jacket. Set the bush in place on the new arm and press it in with you hydraulic press. Use a carefully selected press plate or socket to protect the exposed rubber or urethane material.

For eXtreme Motorsports, Armored or Commercial applications staking the arm is a Best Practice at Pedders USA. To make certain that the steel jackets do not slip under these most extreme conditions, stake the arms. Use a center punch to stake, dimple the arms. Think of the arm as the face of a clock. We use three rows of dimples.

Row 1: set the first dimple at 12, the second at 3, the third at 6 and the fourth at 9.
Row 2: 1, 4, 7: and 10.
Row 3: 2, 5, 8, 11.
They don't need to be deep. A firm blow with a moderate size hammer is sufficient.
Clean the arms surface to be grease free
Clean the bush jacket to be grease free
Apply the retaining compound
Press in the bush

Additional Sleeve Retention Compounds
BOSSŪ 207 Anaerobic Bearing/Sleeve Retaining Compound
35143 Permatex 640 Sleeve Retaining Compound 6 ML Tube
CRC Sleeve Retaining Compound

I understand what your saying, but the grease fitting is positioned right at the two bushing halves, I by no means want to get grease on the outer part (load bearing) portion of the bushing. But did you see what happened to the bushing with NO grease, I try to only give it one slow pump of super lube there just to keep the pin lubricated and not wearing and rusting out the bushing pin, the poly bushing has the groves in it for lubricating purposes I always thought?

Thank you for the great info you provided, maybe that's why I'm having rear alignment problems!

I would also NEVER lube the outer portion of the bushings, I haven't been working with polyurethane bushings that long, but the thought never even entered my mind, it would be pointless to lube the side that's not supposed to move, now the outer portion that contacts the trailing arm I lube along with the pin and inner bushing the pin slides in.

Question: Do you think it would be better to seal the outer portion of the bushing to the ferule, to prevent any grease getting in between the bushing and the ferule when lubing the bushings with a grease gun? Thanks again.

JusticePete 10-01-2013 10:27 AM

Is this rust?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1380594089

10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7053269)

Yes the pin was rusty, and the bushings were worn.

JusticePete 10-01-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M (Post 7053793)
Yes the pin was rusty, and the bushings were worn.

When the outside of the bushings are flush with the ends of the ferule how big is the gap i the middle?

10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 05:04 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7054196)
When the outside of the bushings are flush with the ends of the ferule how big is the gap i the middle?

There's like a 1/16''-1/8''gap Between the bushings inside once inserted/pressed in, bushings were flush with ferule.
Here's some more pics of the knuckle bushings and pins, the last 3 pics of bushing and pin are dry wiped.
The side of the pin that had the most pressure applied is just worn not as rusted as the other side of the pin. I'm really getting tired of these poly bushings, would the Delron bushings be better or not have enough movement (too hard)? I assume ALL the bushings should be replaced, control arms etc., in order for everything to work correctly?
I also installed these almost a year and the half ago, no lube except the energy suspension pre-lube, on the knuckle bushings only never lubed after that. The rest were lubed regularly.
I really miss my solid axles! IRS, IMO suck for drag racing, great for handling, and I like that, I just have to redo the whole rear suspension, make it strong as possible, the HammerHead is going in next w/4.11's, I guess I'll do it when I install that, it will need it with a lot more torque on the suspension from the lower gears.

10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 06:00 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Here's some more pics of the pin wire wheeled clean, still pitted, notice the gap between the pin and bushing with pin inserted in the bushing.

JusticePete 10-01-2013 06:03 PM

Those are not pretty pictures.

We use a steel jacketed bush in the rear knuckle for the trailing arm.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...49635195_n.jpg


10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7054598)
Those are not pretty pictures.

We use a steel jacketed bush in the rear knuckle for the trailing arm.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...49635195_n.jpg



I really like that set up. Do you have to enlarge the diameter of the hole for the Jacketed bushing to be pressed in, what style trailing arms do you use? I need those!

JusticePete 10-01-2013 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M (Post 7054686)
I really like that set up. Do you have to enlarge the diameter of the hole for the Jacketed bushing to be pressed in, what style trailing arms do you use? I need those!

They are a direct replacement of the factory rubber bushing and will work with your arms. Use a threaded rod and a couple sockets to press out the rubber bush and the same setup to press in the new one.

Pedders # EP7265Z

10 2SS/RS 6M 10-01-2013 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7054771)
They are a direct replacement of the factory rubber bushing and will work with your arms. Use a threaded rod and a couple sockets to press out the rubber bush and the same setup to press in the new one.

Pedders # EP7265Z

Thank you!

The stock knuckle bushings have no metal jacket, I already pressed them out when I put the polyurethane bushings in, that method does work well too, of getting the stock rubber bushings out, just cut the rubber lip off and out it comes that way.
Can you let me know or PM me a price for the bushings? Thanks again.

JusticePete 10-02-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M (Post 7054890)
Thank you!

The stock knuckle bushings have no metal jacket, I already pressed them out when I put the polyurethane bushings in, that method does work well too, of getting the stock rubber bushings out, just cut the rubber lip off and out it comes that way.
Can you let me know or PM me a price for the bushings? Thanks again.

PM Sent. I forgot we had a short rear knuckle tour video.


10 2SS/RS 6M 10-03-2013 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 7058044)
PM Sent. I forgot we had a short rear knuckle tour video.


Thanks for you help, great video, helpful to many I'm sure.
That's does look like the last bushing I will ever need on my knuckle.
Now what type of bushing do you recommend for the front of the trailing arm, I was thinking of a Heim joint, or is the 94 durometer poly bushings ok, or is better to go with Delron?
I'll make this easier and give you a call if you want also?
I also need a better bushing on the toe links, I don't want those poly bushings going soft on me also. Matter of fact I think I'm just going to buy your whole bushing kit, front and rear, I will be calling you as soon as I'm ready to order.


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