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-   V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=76)
-   -   Clutchless shifting? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43780)

eckerj 09-22-2009 12:19 PM

Clutchless shifting?
 
Does anyone do any "clutchless shifting" in their `10 Camaros?

I used to do this all the time, years ago, in an old GMC pickup
of mine. My 2LT is a bit of a challenge for me to learn the
"feel" of shift points.

I imagine it's just a matter of time...

beowulf80 09-22-2009 12:30 PM

Not a chance in hell for me to start doing this. I know how to do it and have done it on old beaters with a loose trans, but wouldn't ever do it on my 2SS. The risk vs. reward is just not there at all. What does it save you, a tiny fraction of a second on a shift? The risk is destroying your transmission. This is a 426HP car, I'm sure it'll rip those teeth off in a big hurry if you mess up your timing just once under power. This is no 100HP Civic.

Heck, I'm giving the clutch a quick stab going from in-gear to neutral for coasting. To me the SS's TR6060 is a tight shifter, I'd like to keep it that way.

ffrcobra_65 09-22-2009 12:32 PM

Automatic, SMG, Tiptronic, etal = no clutch pedal.

I guess you are talking about shifting gears in a manual transmission. I used to do it with my motorcycles and timing is critical. One bad timed shifting = chipped gear tooth.

But why would you wanna shift gears in a manual tranny car without using the clutch? I mean, it only takes a nano-second to press-let go of clutch. Like I said, one mis-timed clutchless shift, is already bad. Imagine having several of those.

eckerj 09-22-2009 12:36 PM

I guess I need to clarify: I used to shift without a clutch
while putt-putting around town, when I had plenty of time
to "feel" the correct time to engage a gear. I would be
pretty scared to try doing it during heavy acceleration :yikes:

And the only reason I used to do it is simply because I had
a nice warm feeling that I knew the engine/transmission well
enough to do it without grinding any gears.

coolman 09-22-2009 12:40 PM

Not a good Idea. That's why the car has a clutch. What reason would you have to do this in a daily driver? Lazy, foot or leg broke, can't make the right foot work with the left?

eckerj 09-22-2009 12:47 PM

:sm0:

Knowing that I am able to shift without a clutch tells me
that I am intimately familiar with the car. I guess it goes
towards thinking of the car's controls as an extension of myself.

I've got almost 9k miles on my my 2LT (about 80% of them highway)
and am still getting a feel for the engine/transmission.

And no, I'm not lazy with regards to using a clutch. :)

Merc 09-22-2009 01:07 PM

Not a good idea on the new modern trannies. Will cause damage. Use the clutch.

ffrcobra_65 09-22-2009 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckerj (Post 954548)
:sm0:

Knowing that I am able to shift without a clutch tells me
that I am intimately familiar with the car. I guess it goes
towards thinking of the car's controls as an extension of myself.

I've got almost 9k miles on my my 2LT (about 80% of them highway)
and am still getting a feel for the engine/transmission.

And no, I'm not lazy with regards to using a clutch. :)

...getting intimate with a car....car controls being an extension of yourself....

Dang son! that is some good stuff you are smoking out there! :sm0:

beowulf80 09-22-2009 10:57 PM

Well, its ultimately your car, so you can do it if you really want. Although I know my transmission very well, and can and generally drive it just as smooth as automatic now that I'm familiar with it does not mean that I don't on occasion mis-time a shift. Just the nature of being human.

Slightly off topic, how do you like the V6's transmission? I'm in love with the TR6060. Other than them making 4th and 5th ratios ridiculously close together.

BumbleDs 09-23-2009 02:43 AM

It wont let you, youll have to hold it agaisnt the gear(it wont grind) but once the motor hits between 1 and 2k itll slid in. Thats how my Hummer was and my 2SS is, but its not practical for highway driving.

CanadianCamaro 09-23-2009 08:18 AM

I'm not sure it's even possible with these trans is it? Syncro, gates etc.

eckerj 09-23-2009 10:07 AM

ffrcobra_65: yeah, yeah I know... what can I say? it's my first sports/muscle car! hehe Looking back, that "extension" comment
does sound kinda weird...

beowulf80: I'm really enjoying the V6's transmission. I've driven some friends'
cars before but nothing quite like this. I wish they had done something to
match up the rear-end and 6th gear so that engine would run a bit slower
at highway speeds, something like 1800-1900 @ 65-70. Then you'd really
see some fantastic economy numbers. If they did that, then they could
make 5th a bit higher(?) to fill the gap. Like I said before, I'm still getting
used to the whole car, and have take offs in 1st down pat. About 75% of
the time, I can get 1st to 2nd shifts pretty smooth. Down to about 50%
for 2nd to 3rd shifts (under acceleration). And always get the remaining shifts
dead on. Driving in hilly Atlanta for the past two and a half months taught
me how to do up-hill take-offs, but nothing for smooth transitions between
gears. :)

BumbleDs/CanadianCamaro: That's an excellent point, I don't think I'll be
experimenting with it any time soon. Mostly curious to hear if anyone else
is doing/considering it.

Robin Lawrence 09-23-2009 10:08 AM

Syncronizer design has changed a bunch over the past 30 years. It used to be common to have 1 brass syncro ring. Now the syncronizer assembly can have 3 parts with bonded materials to aid slowing the gears to insure smooth shifting.

In making the transmissions smoother shifting they don't take to clutchless shifting very well.

In my opinion it will damage the syncornizer teeth over time.

Robin

BumbleDs 09-23-2009 02:10 PM

It does not shift very smoothly without the clutch being as you have to let the RPMs fall. my Hummer was ok for it, it was a I-5 5 spd man with 4.56s. but I dont do it, i just like to experiment with cars. I wouldnt recomend it with a new Camaro, but its youre car, so if you want go for it. I know in the V-8 i has the 1-4 lockout sometimes, does the V-6 do that too? I heard the V8s has a cermic clutch also? yes or no to that one?

coolman 09-23-2009 02:20 PM

I can see it now. Your sitting in the dealership with a broken tranny and you say " I was just pulling out from a stop sign and boom. I was never hard on it. Buy the way when I orderd this car it came with an extra peddle on the left. Do I need that for anything. I didn't order it."

BumbleDs 09-23-2009 02:22 PM

lol, thatd be a kodak moment.


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