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-   -   Why do you think the Z28 is the higher tier? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4949)

The_Blur 07-07-2008 03:50 PM

Why do you think the Z28 is the higher tier?
 
I know that a lot of you are citing history as reasons, but to date we have no evidence that a Z28 will even exist, much less outrank the SS. Don't get me wrong. I think a Z28 should absolutely be present. I don't care if it is dominant. In the fourth generation, though, I see Z28s all the time with the SS being a more rare, high-profile trim. I'm wondering what has led everyone on this site to begin assuming that the Z28 is the top tier while the SS is a lower tier. Moreover, what evidence do you have to support the idea that something higher than the pre-production V8 will exist?

I'm sure plenty of you will say that the competition has a higher tier, therefore Chevrolet will have to have a higher tier, but let's be frank here. The whole car industry is in the gutter. Canceling platforms will be a common occurrence over the next couple of years. Could you forgive GM if they only permitted Chevrolet to produce a 400-hp Camaro?

I'm only being the devil's advocate here. I don't want to stir up any trouble, but I'm seeing Z28 posted all over the site as though it is already in many members' garages. Knowing that the alleged SS will likely beat out all of the competition from Dodge, Ford, and Asian import companies, why do you think GM must produce something higher without calling it a special edition Camaro? I wouldn't hold it against GM if there was only one V8 without forced induction since the DI V6 will be within reach of a Mustang GT. This car is golden without some unholy monster that pushes 500 horses, so why is it so necessary to assume that GM has any intentions to make something better? What evidence do you have that a Z28 is in the works at all? Are there secret track times that I haven't seen where a Camaro is rolling around sporting Z28 badges? Someone explain the Z28 phenomenon to me.

discoteka 07-07-2008 04:05 PM

Any car can be a SS; only one can be a Z28. Furthermore, I think all the passion that has been built with this car brings people back to when the car was first on the streets in the late 60's. It has been stated that GM is not going to name the cars based on popular opinion, so maybe this "top dog" car brings back the vibe the original Z28's did.

radz28 07-07-2008 04:12 PM

I'm with you on your points. All I can say is that I hope to all that is good that we get a Z28 and fulfill the expectations of those of us who were hoping to buy one. For sure, the auto martket is changing, but I can only hope that GM still has us actual enthusiasts in mind and build a car that will shame a Cobra. I can't say that I've seen ANY Z28 cars; all speculative. I don't see why GM would only offer an SS though, because Z28 has been around more consistant than the SS moniker.

I could not forgive GM for "only" coming out with 400 horse as it's top performer. I honestly wouldn't be happy if it came out with much less power than the CTS-V. GM has the resources, and really, how much can development for an LSA in this car cost? Cadillac already has manual and automatic transmissions developed and I'm sure the car would need a little more body and suspension bracing. I don't engineer cars though, so I'm talking out of my @$$.

As far any pictures, I can only point at TF2. Yeah, I know it really means nothing, but I can hope.

I guess, all I can say, again, is that I'm just praying that we can still get a car that a lot of us have been expecting. Yes, no one has confirmed it's existance, however enough has been said about matching and exceeding the Mustang that the implication is there that we'd be getting a monster of a Camaro. Who knows though? Maybe a bunch of us hopefuls will be sorely disappointed.

Perhaps another question could be added:

IF THERE IS NO Z28 (OR HIGH-OUTPUT MODEL) WOULD YOU STILL BUY CAMARO?

I would, but I guess I'd have to promptly void the warranty and throw a TVS-2300 supercharger on it. OK, OK, OK... I feel better now. If GM won't make it, I will :burnrubber: :headbang5thgen:

Mindz 07-07-2008 05:39 PM

I don't think you guys understand what he's asking. He wasn't saying why bring back the z28. He's all for it.

He's asking why you think the Z28 would be the top dawg as opposed to the SS. We know they're having a SS model, but they haven't said when they plan to release it so there's a chance it could be the top dog model as well. The general consensus on the board is that the Z28 will show up as the higher tier model, and Blur was asking how a majority of the board came to that conclusion.

Hope this cleared that up. =)

454lsxss 07-07-2008 05:44 PM

I might be wrong, but I don't think the camaro has ever come in just one model of v8...and if it did, it wasn't for very long. I mean look at how every other car company making pony cars is doing it. Dodge Challenger - Base R/T and SRT8. They only have a 55hp difference but the 6.1l has much more potential than the 5.7l. Ford has their base GT then the Bullitt[spelling?], Regular Shelby model, and they have the Shelby Cobra model, along with a few KR's. So really, GM would be missing out on the crowd that wants just a little more ponies[or in the camaro's case alot more ponies] in their car and is willing to pay more for looks/suspension/power:thumbsup:

CamaroSpike23 07-07-2008 06:06 PM

the original reason that the Z28 is higher ranking is because of the RPO codes. (i think theres an echo in here)


Z26 = RS
Z27 = SS
Z28 = Z28


but to some people SS (or Super Sport for that matter) sound a hell of a lot cooler than "Zee twenty-eight" (or Zed twenty-eight if you want to be really on the money).

however GM got to messing with that lineup by badging cars as SS's with a more powerful engine and other goodies back in the 60's (think 396 SS) but there's also the 350 SS so the motor size/power isnt the only factor for basing that off of.

as for the fourth gens, GM only planned on making two models, the v-6 and the v-8, basically the RS (bottom rung) and the Z28 (top dawg). then after they started selling like hot cakes, they decided to start throwing out a souped up version of the car from the dealerships that was modified by SLP and GMMG and still under factory warranty. but what to name this modified Z28? we dont want to just call it a Z28... hmmm what name hasnt been used.......????? oh, SS! and from there, the mindset was locked in that the SS was the top dawg over the Z28.


as for why there is the thought of a possible Z28 supercharged top dawg? cus the car isnt out yet, there has been no one from GM saying "no, there will not be a Z28", which leaves it open to our imaginations. add into that, the fact that we know GM likes to hand down motors from the vette to the camaro, so we'll just have to see.

The_Stache 07-07-2008 06:34 PM

Don't care,

Call it a pinto, Im after the Base V8.

The_Blur 07-07-2008 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindz (Post 86050)
I don't think you guys understand what he's asking. He wasn't saying why bring back the z28. He's all for it.

He's asking why you think the Z28 would be the top dawg as opposed to the SS. We know they're having a SS model, but they haven't said when they plan to release it so there's a chance it could be the top dog model as well. The general consensus on the board is that the Z28 will show up as the higher tier model, and Blur was asking how a majority of the board came to that conclusion.

Hope this cleared that up. =)

I was asking a sort of complicated question, and that is part of it. Why do you think a Z28 will exist at all, and why is the Z28 superior to the SS by default? I'm asking the first part because no evidence or references to a 2010 Z28 exist while several such references, including photographs, exist of the SS. Leaks have confirmed the existence of the SS, which fits Chevrolet's current lineup, usually topped with a high-performance SS with a special appearance package of some sort. For example, the HHR SS is significantly different inside and outside. If Chevrolet were to offer the SS package, it would likely include something different than stock appearances, as is the case in other SS models (Trailblazer, Cobalt, etc.). Wouldn't that be a feature of the top trim of the Camaro?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 454lsxss (Post 86053)
I might be wrong, but I don't think the camaro has ever come in just one model of v8...and if it did, it wasn't for very long. I mean look at how every other car company making pony cars is doing it. Dodge Challenger - Base R/T and SRT8. They only have a 55hp difference but the 6.1l has much more potential than the 5.7l. Ford has their base GT then the Bullitt[spelling?], Regular Shelby model, and they have the Shelby Cobra model, along with a few KR's. So really, GM would be missing out on the crowd that wants just a little more ponies[or in the camaro's case alot more ponies] in their car and is willing to pay more for looks/suspension/power:thumbsup:

Why can't Chevrolet do this with stage kits or GMPP upgrades? With all the work that has gone into the Camaro V8 that we have seen on the track, we would expect the same of a high-performance Camaro. Even if it doesn't come out until 2011, shouldn't we have seen some evidence of its existence by now? We would have to see it on the streets with a special race-tuned suspension that rides significantly lower. In order to race tune that suspension, we would have to see it on the track somewhere. Has GM brought anything secret to a track that set record times recently?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 (Post 86060)
the original reason that the Z28 is higher ranking is because of the RPO codes. (i think theres an echo in here)


Z26 = RS
Z27 = SS
Z28 = Z28


but to some people SS (or Super Sport for that matter) sound a hell of a lot cooler than "Zee twenty-eight" (or Zed twenty-eight if you want to be really on the money).

however GM got to messing with that lineup by badging cars as SS's with a more powerful engine and other goodies back in the 60's (think 396 SS) but there's also the 350 SS so the motor size/power isnt the only factor for basing that off of.

as for the fourth gens, GM only planned on making two models, the v-6 and the v-8, basically the RS (bottom rung) and the Z28 (top dawg). then after they started selling like hot cakes, they decided to start throwing out a souped up version of the car from the dealerships that was modified by SLP and GMMG and still under factory warranty. but what to name this modified Z28? we dont want to just call it a Z28... hmmm what name hasnt been used.......????? oh, SS! and from there, the mindset was locked in that the SS was the top dawg over the Z28.


as for why there is the thought of a possible Z28 supercharged top dawg? cus the car isnt out yet, there has been no one from GM saying "no, there will not be a Z28", which leaves it open to our imaginations. add into that, the fact that we know GM likes to hand down motors from the vette to the camaro, so we'll just have to see.

I'm glad to leave this to the imagination, but no one is saying that they hope there is a Z28. A lot of people are saying that they're holding out for it. That's why I asked if they could forgive GM for not producing it.

Sure, the RPO code is clearly the tier above SS and RS, but does that mean GM has to stick to that order? While the Z06 is the top production Corvette, excluding the special edition ZR1, the SS is to top trim for everything else. There is no longer a Z24, and the Z71 is not a performance trim. What makes the Z28 so essential that GM cannot do without it?

I know what you're going to say: "Ford has a GT500 so Chevy has to compete with it." That is brilliant business sense, and I completely agree, but I will continue to play the devil's advocate and argue that Ford shares are rapidly approaching $0 and GM is not far behind. What makes Ford worthy of competition when neither company can stabilize their prices? Just because Ford is about to jump off the market bridge doesn't mean GM has to follow with products people cannot afford, especially when those products come at the additional cost of gas. The people that get them will be true enthusiasts and millionaires who will store them with their Ferraris, but most of us will only admire this mystery top trim, so why should GM even bother to build it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by diarmadhi (Post 86069)
Don't care,

Call it a pinto, Im after the Base V8.

I'm in the same boat. I want a V8 Camaro, too. The low cost of the V6 would be phenomenal if the RS had a package like in the GMPP accessories thread. All evidence points in that direction. At the same token, I've wanted this car for so long, and I've been rolling around in what feels like a dumpster, so I want my dream V8 Camaro. I'll never be able to afford everyone's expected top trim, so I'll be delighted to drive a 400-hp street monster.

CamaroSpike23 07-07-2008 07:47 PM

Quote:

What makes the Z28 so essential that GM cannot do without it?
cus a camaro isnt a camaro unless its a Z28. lol



as for projected models. its almost logical to see how and why they would make a Z28. the SS will be the base v-8 coming out the door in a couple months, and GM is starting to move back into the performance sector with a lot of cars. and like i said before, the camaro ends up getting the hand me downs of the engine world from the vette (save for the LT5)

topgun1 07-07-2008 08:33 PM

The Z-28 is rumored for one since it is written in numerous auto magazines, such as Motortrend who actually had it reversed: (Available trims are also forecast to include a V-8 Z28 and, eventually, a high-output (say, at least 500 horses) SS (Super Sport) edition to combat the Shelby GT500) and Road & Track (A year after launch, Chevy will introduce a convertible version and after that a high-performance Z28 model with a super-charged 6.2-liter sibling to the Corvette ZR1's LS9 motor known as the LSA. That engine would make somewhere in the neighborhood of 480500 bhp and is similar to the engine used in the upcoming Cadillac CTS-V).

These are just a couple of excerpts online from the reputable magazines--so this is why I assume people believe that a Z-28 will follow.:iono:

Mindz 07-07-2008 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun1 (Post 86098)
Motortrend...and Road & Track

...from the reputable magazines

Reputable for what? :rolleyes:

topgun1 07-07-2008 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindz (Post 86115)
Reputable for what? :rolleyes:

Ok, so maybe "long-running" magazines and maybe "reputable" for misleading consumers? :paddle:

Mindz 07-07-2008 09:53 PM

I know. I was just playing around. =)

topgun1 07-07-2008 10:35 PM

:word:


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