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-   -   Tune + Warranty concerns (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50663)

Camarorss350 11-04-2009 06:17 PM

Tune + Warranty concerns
 
Okay so ive read most of the threads about how awesome GM's warranty is (sarcasm). Now i have a question, Will the dealer be able to tell if i tune my car, break something, put it back to stock, then take it in for service?

Basically im asking if the Computer in the 2010 camaro has the capacity to know when a stock tune has been modified then restored?

Just for the sake of avoiding hassles in the future. I cant afford any new part of this car without warranty coverage lol.

ffrcobra_65 11-04-2009 07:01 PM

Yes they can tell. Just wait til your warranty expires then you can mod all you want.

Scott@Bjorn3D 11-04-2009 07:42 PM

Yep they can tell.

Camarorss350 11-05-2009 08:42 AM

:(

Man this sucks!

Maybe i can get another computer, take out the stocker and pop a modded unit in?


Computers are prob expensive as all hell though i bet, anyone actually know if this would work and maybe even have a price for a stock unit?

Thanks for the help guys!!!

Alvin@PCMofNC 11-05-2009 08:52 AM

You got to pay to play just like anything else. The thing is the dealer has to prove the aftermarket part caused the failure. So if you tune a PCM they can't say thats the reason why your fuel pump quit, or your radio isn't working anymore.

Any tune is ulimately visible to GM. Period.

I'm not sure if the people who advertise "stealth tunes" have thought about legal issues. I'm no expert but it seems not to be a good idea to deliberately cheat your warranty contract. It seems like it could constitute fraud

ryeguycamaro 11-05-2009 08:54 AM

tunes
 
I beg to differ. VectorMotorsports power flash can restore stock tunes. The flash counter is not active in our ecu. I also have a friend who is a gm mechanic and he checked mine after I put the stock tune back in and he knew nothing different. All info came back as if it were a unmodified car. Also if it were tuned don't you think big brother would know and send a flag out? My diagonostic was just run and I have my tune in and everything was problem free. Call Vector Motorsports they can clarify all of this up for anyone. Lot easier to talk directly then to bounce back and fourth on the forums of he said she said.

CamaroSpike23 11-05-2009 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeguycamaro (Post 1135937)
I beg to differ. VectorMotorsports power flash can restore stock tunes. The flash counter is not active in our ecu. I also have a friend who is a gm mechanic and he checked mine after I put the stock tune back in and he knew nothing different. All info came back as if it were a unmodified car. Also if it were tuned don't you think big brother would know and send a flag out? My diagonostic was just run and I have my tune in and everything was problem free. Call Vector Motorsports they can clarify all of this up for anyone. Lot easier to talk directly then to bounce back and fourth on the forums of he said she said.


theres more to the tunes than what Vector is letting on. they dont know all the ins and outs of this computer the way they say they do.

Alvin@PCMofNC 11-05-2009 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeguycamaro (Post 1135937)
I beg to differ. VectorMotorsports power flash can restore stock tunes. The flash counter is not active in our ecu. I also have a friend who is a gm mechanic and he checked mine after I put the stock tune back in and he knew nothing different. All info came back as if it were a unmodified car. Also if it were tuned don't you think big brother would know and send a flag out? My diagonostic was just run and I have my tune in and everything was problem free. Call Vector Motorsports they can clarify all of this up for anyone. Lot easier to talk directly then to bounce back and fourth on the forums of he said she said.


The the stock tune is put back on the computer then yes it is not visible, but it is a stock tune again. If you have a tune still on the computer it is visible by GM at some level. I promise.

Camarorss350 11-05-2009 09:09 AM

Its funny that doing something good for your car can void your warranty. Once a tune is correctly set the motor runs more efficiently with less chance of a problem. Ig GM was smart they would introduce a tuning service...

But whatever it just sucks... and im just venting...:mad0233::seesaw:

GaryTucker 11-05-2009 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeguycamaro (Post 1135937)
I beg to differ. VectorMotorsports power flash can restore stock tunes. The flash counter is not active in our ecu. I also have a friend who is a gm mechanic and he checked mine after I put the stock tune back in and he knew nothing different. All info came back as if it were a unmodified car. Also if it were tuned don't you think big brother would know and send a flag out? My diagonostic was just run and I have my tune in and everything was problem free. Call Vector Motorsports they can clarify all of this up for anyone. Lot easier to talk directly then to bounce back and fourth on the forums of he said she said.

I also beg to differ...it isn't what the tech can see at the dealership...it is what GM can see when the dealership is REQUIRED to send the computer upload to them. My guess is that there is alot more going on "behind the scenes" that the techs can't even see. When you have a powertrain failure...it seems that GM is requiring an upload on nearly every one that happens. If GM couldn't see anything more than the techs...the really wouldn't need this as a screenshot printout would suffice.

I think you'd be suprised what the tuners may or may not know. I used to be supportive of the tuners until they started claiming "invisble" tunes and promoting ways for the customer to "go back to stock" as a way to cheat warranty concerns.

If you mod your car's powertrain, including a tune, then you need to accept that your powertrain warranty is void...just that simple.

As far as a tune making a car run better...not going to hash that out...but think of it this way...then why aren't the tuners offering some type of powertrain warranty. I know one of the suppliers (supercharger maybe) has a supplemental warranty available for powertrain coverage...I'd think a tuner that has done proper testing (more than just tuning a few cars for more hp) could verify their work to an insurer and get the same type of coverage available.

I'd also think that the tuners would be willing to assist their customers with what are being deemed "bogus" (by the tuners and their customers) denials of powertrain warranties. If their product could in no way cause a failure, then they should be willing to help defend their own work and name and also to help out their customer.

Steve@Vectormotorsports 11-05-2009 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvin (Post 1135974)
The the stock tune is put back on the computer then yes it is not visible, but it is a stock tune again. If you have a tune still on the computer it is visible by GM at some level. I promise.

Plain and simple.


And we've tuned over 800 E38 ECM's if anyone thinks we don't know the "in's and outs" of this ECM I'd like to ask them how many cars have they tuned?

ryeguycamaro 11-05-2009 09:48 AM

tunes
 
exactly Alvin. If the stock tune is put back on it is stock. Your mod tune would be gone. Flash counter is not enabled. All of your other mods would have to be changed back also like headers etc, for it to run good as stock again.

GaryTucker 11-05-2009 11:21 AM

[QUOTE=Steve@Vectormotorsports;1136109]Plain and simple.


...

TAG UR IT 11-05-2009 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryTucker (Post 1136091)
I also beg to differ...it isn't what the tech can see at the dealership...it is what GM can see when the dealership is REQUIRED to send the computer upload to them. My guess is that there is alot more going on "behind the scenes" that the techs can't even see.

When you have a powertrain failure...it seems that GM is requiring an upload on nearly every one that happens.

YES THEY ARE.

If GM couldn't see anything more than the techs...they really wouldn't need this as a screenshot printout would suffice.

My goodness, common sense prevails! :laugh:
You hit the nail on the head!

I think you'd be suprised what the tuners may or may not know. I used to be supportive of the tuners until they started claiming "invisble" tunes and promoting ways for the customer to "go back to stock" as a way to cheat warranty concerns.

If you mod your car's powertrain, including a tune, then you need to accept that your powertrain warranty is void...just that simple.

EXACTLY. You gotta pay to play. If you can't pay for a powertrain failure, WAIT for that warranty to expire! Don't cheat the system....or try to.


As far as a tune making a car run better...not going to hash that out...but think of it this way...then why aren't the tuners offering some type of powertrain warranty.
:word:
I know one of the suppliers (supercharger maybe) has a supplemental warranty available for powertrain coverage...I'd think a tuner that has done proper testing (more than just tuning a few cars for more hp) could verify their work to an insurer and get the same type of coverage available.

Yep...and they sure do. They stand behind their work, their parts, their tuning, and offer from 1 year 12k mile to 3 year 36k mile warranties.

I'd also think that the tuners would be willing to assist their customers with what are being deemed "bogus" (by the tuners and their customers) denials of powertrain warranties. If their product could in no way cause a failure, then they should be willing to help defend their own work and name and also to help out their customer.

Yep once again.

And I'll leave it at that. ;)

ryeguycamaro 11-05-2009 03:25 PM

tunes.
 
so change it all back to stock and put your stock tune in. My stock tune is exactly the same as it came. We checked it out last night with the screen shot and it does not I repeat does not differ in any way. If all of you are so worried about it then forget it don't do it and quit whining about it. Ask a lot of the G8 guys what is happening to them with warranty work and a tune. They still get it as long as the stock is back on the car with stock parts. They are not getting denied. One of the only vehicles I know of with gm that has the flash counter enabled is the duramax diesel equipped vehicles.

toehead93 11-05-2009 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryTucker (Post 1136091)
I know one of the suppliers (supercharger maybe) has a supplemental warranty available for powertrain coverage...I'd think a tuner that has done proper testing (more than just tuning a few cars for more hp) could verify their work to an insurer and get the same type of coverage available.

Superchargers are marked up so much that the manufacturers can afford to offer a drivetrain warranty. If a tune cost $7,000 I guarantee you'd get a drivetrain warranty from your tuner, no sweat. :) In fact I'll tune your car for $7,000 and give you a 3-year/36k mile drivetrain warranty. PM me for details!!

So are we all agreeing the stock tune can be flashed back to stock and be undetected by the dealer if done right. And we agree that at this time it is still unknown if GM can see if the tune has been changed?

GaryTucker 11-05-2009 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toehead93 (Post 1137882)
Superchargers are marked up so much that the manufacturers can afford to offer a drivetrain warranty. If a tune cost $7,000 I guarantee you'd get a drivetrain warranty from your tuner, no sweat. :) In fact I'll tune your car for $7,000 and give you a 3-year/36k mile drivetrain warranty. PM me for details!!

So are we all agreeing the stock tune can be flashed back to stock and be undetected by the dealer if done right. And we agree that at this time it is still unknown if GM can see if the tune has been changed?

If done right? Who is to say that GM can't see them if the REALLY want to look? Just because some G8 guys are getting away with it right now...doesn't mean you'll be able to get away with it tomorrow. Especially since the tuners are bragging on boards all over the place that GM CANNOT find their tune or about how easy it is to remove. We all know that GM trolls these sites...so why wouldn't we expect them to be working on a "fix" for this issue?

Maybe the tuners ought to investigate the warranty route versus just trying to be the "cheapest" on the block. A little differentiation goes a long way in the world of marketing. Instead of looking for the cheapest, most powerful tune a customer might just look for a tune with a warranty. I will tell you that the warranty issue is one reason my cars have always stayed stock until after the warranty expired.

I don't think it would be $7,000, but it would be more $500 as it would require the tuners to actually R&D their product to a point that they could document the failure ratios of their work so that they could get an actuary to figure the failure ratios and develop a cost scenario to base insurance coverage from...this would allow the tuner to offer a warranty on their product and they could even offer two options...warranty or no warranty. I'm betting they could get their cost back pretty quickly!


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