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-   -   Premium recommended? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5517)

Rocks RS 07-25-2008 02:33 PM

Premium recommended?
 
When Gm says this, what do they really mean?

Do they mean you should only use 92+ octane?
Do they mean you should use 92+ octane when possible, but the car will "live" on 89?
or does it mean you can run it on 87 octane and occasionally put the good stuff in it or put in a octane booster?

I had a 2006 Impala SS with the 5.7L and it recommended the Premium and that is all I used. I always wondered though.

Jak 07-25-2008 02:57 PM

Yeah, I'm interested in the answer too. To me it sounds like they'd rather you use 92+, but you can use a lower grade with a slight loss in performance. Now it seems if they only wanted 92+ they'd say high grade only.:iono: Least that's my take on it.

willisit 07-25-2008 03:00 PM

This conversation has already been had elsewhere - but the compression ratio on the LS3 (V8) needs premium. Same as the LS2 (the '1 could run on crude oil though).

jmliptak 07-25-2008 03:50 PM

Its like the Vette in the stats, recommended but not required...The compression on the v6 is higher(11.3 vs 10.7), but does not require premium...You will lose some top end power as the computer dials things back, but lots of Vette guys are running regular right now with no ill effects other than the loss of some top end...Sorry tried to copy the table from the press release, the spacing did not come over well....

http://wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/2...press-release/

Rocks RS 07-25-2008 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmliptak (Post 100245)
Its like the Vette in the stats, recommended but not required...The compression on the v6 is higher(11.3 vs 10.7), but does not require premium...You will lose some top end power as the computer dials things back, but lots of Vette guys are running regular right now with no ill effects other than the loss of some top end...Sorry tried to copy the table from the press release, the spacing did not come over well....

http://wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/2...press-release/


Thanks. That is what I was looking for. I am fine with losing a little top end, since all I see where I live is the weak V6 'Stangs. I just did not want to do any major damage.

jmliptak 07-25-2008 04:13 PM

There has been a lot of confusion, but it appears to be like the Vette in that regard...

CamaroSpike23 07-25-2008 08:43 PM

you will lose more than just top end.

lower octane fuel will hurt your gas mileage in a car that is made to run premium and it will also pull from your power. yes you can run regular, but you are better off running at least 89 or higher or the manufacturer's recommendation.

i run 93 octane unless i cant find it then i will run 91 and ill add a bottle of STP octane boost. ive run 89 on one fillup but i only put 3 gallons in to get me to a place with higher octane gas. 87 has never touched my tank.

another thing to keep in mind is that a 3 pt octane booster will not bump 89 up to 92 octane. Under the North American octane system AKI (Anti-Knock Index) pump fuel is graded as (RON+MON)/2. Meaning if a fuel has a RON (Research Octane Number) of 96, and a MON ( Motor Octane Number) of 90 its AKI would be 93.

basically, you add the octane rating to the MON. so for our 89 octane the MON is roughly 90 and the MON is 88. add 3 to 88= 91

91+90=181
181/2=90.5 octane.

so in effect you are getting 1.5 points even tho the bottle says 3 pts.




here's a good writeup with MON and RON testing of octane boosters

http://volvospeed.com/Reviews/octane_boosters.html

gunslinger 07-25-2008 09:57 PM

ONLY 91 here in Cali, except for the Union 76 100-Octane unleadded racing fuel @ 15.00/gallon:mad0259:

CamaroSpike23 07-25-2008 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger (Post 100508)
ONLY 91 here in Cali, except for the Union 76 100-Octane unleadded racing fuel @ 15.00/gallon:mad0259:

and thats part of the pollution problem over there... that on top of the fact that there are billions of cars on the road over there...lol

cam346 08-03-2008 04:00 PM

i be running the highest avail. which is 93 here. i want all my ponys acounted for.

CamaroSpike23 08-03-2008 04:16 PM

93 during the week, 112 on the weekends...lol

gunslinger 08-03-2008 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 (Post 105791)
93 during the week, 112 on the weekends...lol

How does 91 increase pollution?
Is that 112 unleaded?

CamaroSpike23 08-03-2008 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger (Post 105890)
How does 91 increase pollution?
Is that 112 unleaded?



comparing it to 93 and the fact that with that being the highest available, most people will put 87 in their cars as it is the cheapest, lowering your emissions and performance. multiply that X's the number of vehicles on the road out there in Cali at any given pt in time, and you wonder why everything has a sticker that says "has been known to cause cancer in california" its not the product, its the shit-ton of smog created by the millions of cars on the roads over there.


and yeah, its unleaded... tho they have 113 leaded but i wont mess with that.

rcreechssr 08-03-2008 11:43 PM

My 2 cents worth
 
With the new computer controlled engines, it would appear that octane rating is not as critical to prevent pre-ignition as in older engines. These engines will self adjust and run on 87 octane. However, as stated by others in this thread, you will lose some performance and in my experience some gas mileage (1-2mpg).
Now the economics. 92 octane is generally $.20-.25 more than 87 octane. My logic says that in a typical 20 gal. fill up, I'll pay roughly $4.00-$6.00 more per tank. In my opinion, that aint bad for a tank of higher performance, and better gas mileage. Just a thought.
:thumbsup:

CamaroSpike23 08-03-2008 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcreechssr (Post 105991)
With the new computer controlled engines, it would appear that octane rating is not as critical to prevent pre-ignition as in older engines. These engines will self adjust and run on 87 octane. However, as stated by others in this thread, you will lose some performance and in my experience some gas mileage (1-2mpg).
Now the economics. 92 octane is generally $.20-.25 more than 87 octane. My logic says that in a typical 20 gal. fill up, I'll pay roughly $4.00-$6.00 more per tank. In my opinion, that aint bad for a tank of higher performance, and better gas mileage. Just a thought.
:thumbsup:

while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation (combustion cycle preignition) which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby :thumbsup:

Muscle Master 08-04-2008 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 (Post 105993)
while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby :thumbsup:


Greg you really know your shit, I like you man.......lol :respekt::drinking:

Emher 08-04-2008 05:50 AM

So us Swedes that have 95 octance standard, 98 premium won't have to worry about all this then, huh?

CamaroSpike23 08-04-2008 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muscle Master (Post 106000)
Greg you really know your shit, I like you man.......lol :respekt::drinking:

thanks. i try to share my knowledge as much as possible, usually to help, but sometimes to shut others up. :thumbup:

its hard fighting against all the ignorance in the world (and on this forum as of late)




Quote:

Originally Posted by Emher (Post 106101)
So us Swedes that have 95 octance standard, 98 premium won't have to worry about all this then, huh?

98...bastards...lol



unless your rating system is different than ours...

rcreechssr 08-04-2008 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 (Post 105993)
while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby :thumbsup:

I'm with you 100%!!!:clap:

Dan 08-04-2008 08:57 AM

When a bottle of octane boost (or snake oil as I call it) says 3 points it means from 89 to 89.3 not to 91. Total waste of money.

mega 08-04-2008 09:17 AM

I hope you all know why/how the computer knows to pull ignition and up the fuel/air ratio

KNOCK, that's right, the engine knock sensor, from preignition

it's NOT good, just because the engine is smart enough to retard ignition and richen the fuel does not mean it's good to run 87

Chevyrocker 08-04-2008 09:58 AM

I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.

mega 08-04-2008 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsenn (Post 106151)
I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.

wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage

you want to run the lowest octane fuel you can, without predetonation, any higher is a waste of money

CamaroSpike23 08-04-2008 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 106132)
When a bottle of octane boost (or snake oil as I call it) says 3 points it means from 89 to 89.3 not to 91. Total waste of money.

exactly right.... see post 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by mega (Post 106136)
I hope you all know why/how the computer knows to pull ignition and up the fuel/air ratio

KNOCK, that's right, the engine knock sensor, from preignition

it's NOT good, just because the engine is smart enough to retard ignition and richen the fuel does not mean it's good to run 87

knock = detonation... see post 15


Quote:

Originally Posted by jsenn (Post 106151)
I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.


wait a sec... so you say that the higher octane rating, the worse fuel economy... e85 is effectively 100-105 octane rating... e85 users will spend the same amount if not more to run it over gasoline due to the fact that e85 tuned motors tend to run richer than gasoline. so what they think they are saving on gas at the pump, they are more than paying back on the road.

and when it comes to horsies, the only real time that e85 outshines regular gasoline is when the motor has a high enough compression ratio to make use of the higher octane level of e85. most other times e85 runs slightly less hp than gasoline.



and here's a nice coverage (by the epa) about e85s stats
http://www.epa.gov/air/caaac/mstrs/2006_10_dunham.pdf

jmliptak 08-04-2008 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 (Post 106203)


wait a sec... so you say that the higher octane rating, the worse fuel economy...

Different motor, but that has been my experience with my Cobalt SS/SC. I actually get better mileage with regular, but admittedly it is not scientific since I don't drive exactly the same every time, but it runs very nicely on regular, but I don't spend a ton of time in the upper part of the tach when I drive back and forth to work......


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