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-   -   Achieving the Camaro concept's afterburner tail light effect (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56497)

RMGee 12-14-2009 01:40 PM

Achieving the Camaro concept's afterburner tail light effect
 
UPDATE
If you're just tuning into this thread, you can skip to page six. Specifically, this post by TonyNo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyNo (Post 1413526)
Here's a bad-phone-pic teaser shot of the prototype. :thumbup:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1264391310

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=132

This is a kind of collective effort thread to see if anyone out there has idea's for how to get the afterburner look.

I'd say its clear there is a demand for this
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35170

Here it is with the no brakes, and then brakes.
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/r...ner-tailli.jpg
http://www.sportscarcup.com/cars/che...amaro-back.jpg

Here is a video of a close up that I found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heR6lf4T3z0#t=0m38s

AAC has gotten really close.
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/r...CamaroLE-1.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/r...0RSSSLSLT1.jpg
You can buy those here
http://www.automotivelightstore.com/...letcamaro.aspx

So has kga10734
http://people.consolidated.net/kga734/z28/img_0984.jpg
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=53


So if anyone has their 2 cents about this post it here.
I think its a matter of getting the light to diffuse evenly and outward only, but I have no idea how that would happen since I'm not so light-mod savvy. Either way, there probably needs to be an entirely new housing to achieve this.

Radz thinks its about trunkspace
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...18&postcount=2

Ringo 12-14-2009 04:01 PM

Neither of those is even remotely close. If you want yellow half circles for tail lights, those are great. Afterburners they are not. Too many people out there buying these things and are willing to settle for third best. The demand is out there, we just need somebody to do it correctly with diffused light, and make it happen.

nUcLeArEnVoY 12-14-2009 04:08 PM

The best way to do it would be to put a half-pie shaped piece inside that has a special tint on it that blocks the normal tail-light intensity but not the brake light.

scythezo6 12-14-2009 04:39 PM

If anyone has seen the gauges inside a Pontiac G6 (ahem my current car =P, google pics of this light up at night) They have the afterburner effect on those. I have buddy that studied electrical engineering at my university (not claiming him as an expert by any means but he brings up valid points) and after showing him the concept pics he says:

"Here is the key to that look:

The inner circle of the lighting fixture needs to be blacked out or tinted so little (but enough to be legal) light passes through. This will give the darkened center appearance.

The light needs to come from behind this blacked out center in a way that it shines around the perimeter of the light fixture. But some light needs to pass through the darmened center as well but much less than what comes out the sides. This can be done by using a smaller halo light with a softer (no brakes applied) glow. The smaller halo should be fixed behind the darkened center so you cant "see" the halo directly but only the glow it emits.

The sides of the lighting fixture needs to be highly reflective so the light can gleam off it forming streak patterns that mimic a soft glowing flame.

Also the darkened center should have notches cut out along the egdes where light shines through. This allows the light passing through them to have a broken up edge/definition to enhance the soft glowing flame look."

Basically what I got from this and the drawings, you lighting experts can debate this, is the middle of the lamp needs to be tinted or blacked out enough so barely any light comes out when the brake are not applied. The afterburner effect comes from having the light source be behind this tinted middle so the light shines from behind it onto the sides.

Heres some drawing he did that I photo'd on the iPhone:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...6/IMG_0177.jpg

RMGee 12-14-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scythezo6 (Post 1283711)
If anyone has seen the gauges inside a Pontiac G6 (ahem my current car =P, google pics of this light up at night) They have the afterburner effect on those. I have buddy that studied electrical engineering at my university (not claiming him as an expert by any means but he brings up valid points) and after showing him the concept pics he says:

"Here is the key to that look:

The inner circle of the lighting fixture needs to be blacked out or tinted so little (but enough to be legal) light passes through. This will give the darkened center appearance.

The light needs to come from behind this blacked out center in a way that it shines around the perimeter of the light fixture. But some light needs to pass through the darmened center as well but much less than what comes out the sides. This can be done by using a smaller halo light with a softer (no brakes applied) glow. The smaller halo should be fixed behind the darkened center so you cant "see" the halo directly but only the glow it emits.

The sides of the lighting fixture needs to be highly reflective so the light can gleam off it forming streak patterns that mimic a soft glowing flame.

Also the darkened center should have notches cut out along the egdes where light shines through. This allows the light passing through them to have a broken up edge/definition to enhance the soft glowing flame look."

Basically what I got from this and the drawings, you lighting experts can debate this, is the middle of the lamp needs to be tinted or blacked out enough so barely any light comes out when the brake are not applied. The afterburner effect comes from having the light source be behind this tinted middle so the light shines from behind it onto the sides.

Heres some drawing he did that I photo'd on the iPhone:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...6/IMG_0177.jpg


Great stuff. Def sounds promising

2010 SSRS 12-14-2009 07:32 PM

those look killer

SS Mike 12-14-2009 07:42 PM

I had an idea based on a thread I saw the other day.

A company on here is making an LED tail light that has the sequential feature, as well as a show feature. Well the piece is shaped like the inside of the tail light housing. I was thinking, what if you were to put that piece inside the housing, maybe an inch or so from the red lens on the outside, and behind it you put a bulb in that doesn't have the two filliments so it doesn't get brighter when you hit the brakes. So whenever you have your parking lights turned on, the bulbs will be on low light, but the LED piece will be blocking most of the light, allowing it to only show at the bottom and around the sides Then when you hit the brakes, the LEDs on that piece come on. Presto, you have an afterburner kit.

Any thoughts? It's kind of hard to explain without being able to show you guys what I mean so hopefully I explained it correctly.

KMPrenger 12-14-2009 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scythezo6 (Post 1283711)
If anyone has seen the gauges inside a Pontiac G6 (ahem my current car =P, google pics of this light up at night) They have the afterburner effect on those. I have buddy that studied electrical engineering at my university (not claiming him as an expert by any means but he brings up valid points) and after showing him the concept pics he says:

"Here is the key to that look:

The inner circle of the lighting fixture needs to be blacked out or tinted so little (but enough to be legal) light passes through. This will give the darkened center appearance.

The light needs to come from behind this blacked out center in a way that it shines around the perimeter of the light fixture. But some light needs to pass through the darmened center as well but much less than what comes out the sides. This can be done by using a smaller halo light with a softer (no brakes applied) glow. The smaller halo should be fixed behind the darkened center so you cant "see" the halo directly but only the glow it emits.

The sides of the lighting fixture needs to be highly reflective so the light can gleam off it forming streak patterns that mimic a soft glowing flame.

Also the darkened center should have notches cut out along the egdes where light shines through. This allows the light passing through them to have a broken up edge/definition to enhance the soft glowing flame look."

Basically what I got from this and the drawings, you lighting experts can debate this, is the middle of the lamp needs to be tinted or blacked out enough so barely any light comes out when the brake are not applied. The afterburner effect comes from having the light source be behind this tinted middle so the light shines from behind it onto the sides.

Heres some drawing he did that I photo'd on the iPhone:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...6/IMG_0177.jpg


Lets not forget that the center needs to be able to light up just as bright as the surrounding "glow" when the breaks are hit. In the above diagram..the outside would just get brighter as the inside would become just bright enough to be noticable. My guess is that its this seperation that makes this project tough using the existing lens. Really, what we need is a whole new setup, including lens, and housing with different bulb locations and all to really get what we're seeking.

Thats just my thoughts, and in no way at all am i remotely saying I could do it lol. If some company does it...awsome..but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap at all. (obviously) I don't even know if something like that would be plug and play possible with the existing wiring would it?

jjopks 12-14-2009 09:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/2010camrear/1002900652

"The car is pretty wide and the taillights are out at the corners, but they're not as deep as they were on the concept car, a decision driven primarily by sheetmetal and trunk space. On the concept you can make those cans two-feet deep but someone who owns the car doesn't want that."

BOOTZILLA 12-14-2009 09:24 PM

I likes dat.

But really.

How do I get 6" flames to shoot outta my rear end??

scythezo6 12-14-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scythezo6 (Post 1283711)
If anyone has seen the gauges inside a Pontiac G6 (ahem my current car =P, google pics of this light up at night) They have the afterburner effect on those. I have buddy that studied electrical engineering at my university (not claiming him as an expert by any means but he brings up valid points) and after showing him the concept pics he says:

"Here is the key to that look:

The inner circle of the lighting fixture needs to be blacked out or tinted so little (but enough to be legal) light passes through. This will give the darkened center appearance.

The light needs to come from behind this blacked out center in a way that it shines around the perimeter of the light fixture. But some light needs to pass through the darmened center as well but much less than what comes out the sides. This can be done by using a smaller halo light with a softer (no brakes applied) glow. The smaller halo should be fixed behind the darkened center so you cant "see" the halo directly but only the glow it emits.

The sides of the lighting fixture needs to be highly reflective so the light can gleam off it forming streak patterns that mimic a soft glowing flame.

Also the darkened center should have notches cut out along the egdes where light shines through. This allows the light passing through them to have a broken up edge/definition to enhance the soft glowing flame look."

Basically what I got from this and the drawings, you lighting experts can debate this, is the middle of the lamp needs to be tinted or blacked out enough so barely any light comes out when the brake are not applied. The afterburner effect comes from having the light source be behind this tinted middle so the light shines from behind it onto the sides.

Heres some drawing he did that I photo'd on the iPhone:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...6/IMG_0177.jpg

The light source here will not be a cheapo light bulb, that was just drawn in for simplicity. Its should probably be a halo and the middle should be tinted enough to block out a lot of light (not all!) when the brakes are not applied (lots of light will still pass around the edges).

navmaxlp 12-14-2009 09:36 PM

Ok stay with me here as I'm not sure I can explain this well.

So on the concept, it looks almost like the afterburner light is coming from behind the actual brake light bulb. That's what creates that look. What I'm thinking could be done is using the AACStyle CCFL lights and placing some sort of plastic shielding around the light that obscures it so the light can only be reflected out and forward causing the effect. Think of a Bic pen where the inner ink portion is the CCFL. Cut about a quarter of the outer plastic off, bend the whole thing into a semi circle and place it in the light housing. This way, you can't see the actual CCFL but you can see the light coming out around the plastic housing. I think this would create the exact afterburner effect we are all looking for.

I can try and explain better if needed. I''l try and draw up a picture to post as well to clarify.

VenomZ302 12-14-2009 10:14 PM

I think what's probably the ideal way to handle this is to have a semi-circular section of LEDs (or a darker plastic panel that will conduct light) that appears very dark when unlit. When driving in regular conditions, a parking light of sorts set behind the LEDs would be lit, creating the afterburner effect. Then, when you hit the brakes, the LEDs light up and that's that.

Despite the idea seeming relatively simple, I have NO idea how difficult it would be to implement. Just thought I'd share my thought.

2SSRS@Gen5diy 12-14-2009 10:51 PM

I think that i know how to do it, But its a lot of work on the first link is the thread i started, I made one but in parts is like is $50 per light and almost 5 man Hr so i think that is a lot of work for most.

First thing is to open the tail light and remove the outer and inner lens, The inner lens is clear and needs to be cut to the shape of a 3/8 moon and then get a tint that is 20% to cover the moon shape, Next you need to get a new red LED bulb like this one.


http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/r...Dec14_0001.jpg
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/r...Dec14_0002.jpg

Now the bulb is one that i found at the Truck stops i tried the one you can get at auto supply stores but all of them are to long for what you want.

I had to do some work on the ones you see as it had 4 contacts and we need the bulb to only work on the two, The high beams or power and the second two are the ones that give the side light that go's to the part that i made to hold all the rest of the lights, As of right now i have over 20 lights in this and i will post some new pics soon.

This was the first time i did it and not to bad but i used the longer bulb and a round mount for the rest of the lights.

Running lights.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1252368547

Stop light.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1252368547

But after this pic came out i redid the hosing to look closer the the concept, See the pics.
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1614/dsc04807.jpg

So this was next after a new hosing, This is the running lights http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1253589125

And this is the brake lights.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1253589125

So what do you think so far?, Look i did all this by my self and a lot of more things but i need parts as and i can only do so much at one time.

Dos any one have some tail light lens that is what i need to finish it up as it takes all 4 lens.

One mor thing is you also need the LED Load Equalizers

navmaxlp 12-15-2009 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2SSRS (Post 1285213)
So what do you think so far?, Look i did all this by my self and a lot of more things but i need parts as and i can only do so much at one time.

Dos any one have some tail light lens that is what i need to finish it up as it takes all 4 lens.

One more thing is you also need the LED Load Equalizers

I think that's pretty frickin awesome. A couple of things to look at though would be the size and shape. The Brake light center needs to be considerably larger and less trapezoidal. I'm sure you know that already but figured I'd throw that in there as my one critique. Other than that, I think you're dead on with it. It looks like there's a little too much light coming from behind the brake light but, I think once you fix the size thing, that should be taken care of. Keep up the good work I think you're going in the right direction. You get the right shape on the LED cluster and you've got it nailed.

2SSRS@Gen5diy 12-15-2009 09:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thank you for the nice words, Look at this pic and you can see that the concept has a trapezoidal shape, The thing i did that you are saying is to small is as big as i can go, There is no more room in the tail light hosing.

Rockin the BlueSS 12-17-2009 10:24 AM

i am looking for pictures of the tail light housing outside and inside, does anyone have them? i have a couple ideas i am going to play around with but i want to get an idea of what the complete housing looks like. any one got a picture maybe with a ruler in it for scaling purposes?

scythezo6 12-17-2009 12:28 PM

Love the avatar of Dwight with the CPR doll's face on... lmao
Office FTW

Legend17 12-17-2009 12:41 PM

AAC is probably as close as ur gonna get cuz the inside of the housing isnt like the concept's

Mindz 12-17-2009 01:38 PM

2SSRS and Rockin the BlueSS, I'm glad someone is trying to get a real afterburner tailight going. I will follow your progress and consider me one of your first customers if you decide to sell it.

2SSRS@Gen5diy 12-17-2009 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindz (Post 1295126)
2SSRS and Rockin the BlueSS, I'm glad someone is trying to get a real afterburner tailight going. I will follow your progress and consider me one of your first customers if you decide to sell it.

I will do a DYI on it as it is not how i make $ for a living.

DkknightX 12-21-2009 07:47 PM

In hindsight, GM really did leave out many of the popular effects on the production model compared to the concept. If people were spending $40K on their car and wanted all of these effects, GM should have offered just about all of the more popular options like "afterburner tail lamps," for a few hundred more. I'd even pay a few thousand more just to make sure I wasn't buying a Camaro that lost some excitement in the transition from concept to production vehicle. GM dropped the ball with this. The gas tank placement I could care less about, but why not finish the damn car with the best tail lamps? Maybe if they focused more on this, they would have taken more care in better protecting the lamps. So many people complaining of water filling the housing. I want a Camaro, not a Honda CRX hatchback. Every time I've seen one of these cars their tail lamps and trunk plastic molding are like half filled with water. LOL!

2SSJIM 12-21-2009 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkknightX (Post 1308651)
In hindsight, GM really did leave out many of the popular effects on the production model compared to the concept. If people were spending $40K on their car and wanted all of these effects, GM should have offered just about all of the more popular options like "afterburner tail lamps," for a few hundred more. I'd even pay a few thousand more just to make sure I wasn't buying a Camaro that lost some excitement in the transition from concept to production vehicle. GM dropped the ball with this. The gas tank placement I could care less about, but why not finish the damn car with the best tail lamps? Maybe if they focused more on this, they would have taken more care in better protecting the lamps. So many people complaining of water filling the housing. I want a Camaro, not a Honda CRX hatchback. Every time I've seen one of these cars their tail lamps and trunk plastic molding are like half filled with water. LOL!

Although those afterburner tailights look awesome, I believe the answer as to why they're not part of the production model would be cost! After all, price the replacement cost of just one front Halo light! Also having a company gear up to make enough of them for 100k plus cars a year (I believe GM had run into this issue with the Halo's earlier this year) and add the fact what another member said... the concept lights are pretty deep and would take up trunck space. Maybe this could end up being part of the Z28 package.... who knows but I would like to see GM put out a version of them for add on's!

Tran 12-21-2009 09:19 PM

Everyone, please keep this topic on-topic --> discussing how the afterburner tail lights can be achieved (not why the production lights don't come like this).

Thank you.

Lava 12-21-2009 10:01 PM

Love the ideas, i am definately a future customer when this is correctly achieved. Good minds working here so it shouldn't be long.


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