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-   -   Springs vs. Coilovers (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57810)

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-23-2009 05:04 PM

Springs vs. Coilovers
 
Which gives you the better ride? coileovers or lowering springs.

I would like to get low..more than a 1" but don't want to get a ride like in the mini-truck days.

I plan on 22" with 30 series tires. Lowered to where the fender sits just about 1" or so above tire.

Bruce@raymondsperformance 12-23-2009 06:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I like the coil overs,I have pedders on our camaro and it rides and performs great.The Pedders coil overs are the way to go since the shock travel won't change to get the ride height .The shock valve is also 30 way adjustable to help get the performance that you are looking for.We have a set in stock if you are interested.

Bentley78 12-23-2009 06:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
haha know what you mean...i use to have a 91 Nissan hardbody slammed on air shocks. Not C-notched nor bridged. Bed frame rested right on the axle....those were the days, making my money stretch with the little i had.

Well lets see...i have Eibach pro kit (springs) on my SS which dropped it around an inch for $260. After the alighnment it rode great to me, a bit stiffer but deffitenly felt more like a performance car, kinda feels like a vette now. Of course i dont have the adjustability i would like to have with coilovers system but that will cost over $2000.

Overall im very happy with my Eibach springs and is so far my most favorite mod i've done so far.

toehead93 12-24-2009 09:25 AM

I had the same dilema as the OP. I pre-ordered Pedders coilovers but was considering springs and sway bars in lieu of the coilovers. I've decided to keep the coilovers, from what I researched I'll have better ride quality and not only be able to drop it lower but I can adjust the height as I needed. I will be installing my Pedders coilovers in Jan, I've got an extra set too if you're interested.

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-27-2009 11:24 PM

Nobody has a SOLID answer to this question. Maybe all the professional shops are on vacation. Lets see what happenes on Monday.

g-townmach 12-28-2009 09:29 AM

If you're concerned about ride quality, I would of course go with the coilovers.

55Designs 12-28-2009 09:37 AM

Ok the OP is asking a basic question but this is biased to reply. Springs are an easy way to lower the car and improve handling however the OEM shocks have limits in their valving and adding heavier wheels and tires will add more strees to the factory shocks. The coilovers on the markert have shock adjustments but so far on what I have tested it wasnt the best for my driving conditions. I am waiting til Feb for more options to be on the market. As for ride quality you can set up coilovers to ride just like a set of springs and to be honest they may ride better than just springs but in my experience on my roads the coilovers made my car bounch much more than I would have liked even when adjusted many ways.

Stitch 12-28-2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKnCHRME09Deluxe (Post 1324002)
Nobody has a SOLID answer to this question.

There is no SOLID answer to this question. "Ride" is a completely subjective measurement. Personally, I do not want the same "Ride" in my Concorde as I would my SRT. Depending on what "Ride" you are looking for, your answer is going to be different.

Dampers are desinged and valved to work with a certain spring rate and travel. When you change one of those variables, you should change the dampening, or the "Ride" won't be balanced. When you say "lowering springs", are you refering to a spring with the same or greater rate as the stock springs? A shorter suspension travel with a greater spring rate, paired with the same dampening force is going to create a jostled ride, because the dampening force can't keep up with the stronger spring rate.

Adjustable coilovers allow you to tune the dampening forces to the rate and travel of the spring, giving you the ability to create a better "RIDE". Doesn't mean that ride will still be to harsh for you. Most established suspension tuners can provide you with a spring for your coilovers with a lesser rate, for a softer "RIDE", but then you might want them to adjust the range of the dampening, but from the sounds of it, I'm guessing you'll never adjust them anyways.

It seems like we've come to the Form vs. Function delimma... "I want my Camaro to look cool, but I want it to feel like a Cadillac."

If you still want to lower your car, but you're concerned about a comfy right, have you thought about stepping down to a 19" wheel, and increasing the tire sideway? You could still lower your car, but use some of the tire to help soften out your ride. But I guess that wouldn't look as cool...

Simple answer: Coilover > Drop Springs

tones2SS 12-28-2009 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymo1 (Post 1315193)
I like the coil overs,I have pedders on our camaro and it rides and performs great.The Pedders coil overs are the way to go since the shock travel won't change to get the ride height .The shock valve is also 30 way adjustable to help get the performance that you are looking for.We have a set in stock if you are interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toehead93 (Post 1316602)
I had the same dilema as the OP. I pre-ordered Pedders coilovers but was considering springs and sway bars in lieu of the coilovers. I've decided to keep the coilovers, from what I researched I'll have better ride quality and not only be able to drop it lower but I can adjust the height as I needed. I will be installing my Pedders coilovers in Jan, I've got an extra set too if you're interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g-townmach (Post 1324700)
If you're concerned about ride quality, I would of course go with the coilovers.

BINGO!!!!
Coil overs are what will give you the better ride and cornering ability.
Hope that answers your question.:thumbsup:

crazz28 12-28-2009 02:52 PM

I was also debating what to get. I'm leaning towards coilovers because I'm paranoid about getting springs and lowering it, and as a result, changing the angles/vectors of the IRS......unless I'm worried about nothing??? I'm sure all these suspension companies lower it for a reason but I just like the adjustability of the coilover.

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-28-2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch (Post 1324775)
There is no SOLID answer to this question. "Ride" is a completely subjective measurement. Personally, I do not want the same "Ride" in my Concorde as I would my SRT. Depending on what "Ride" you are looking for, your answer is going to be different.

Dampers are desinged and valved to work with a certain spring rate and travel. When you change one of those variables, you should change the dampening, or the "Ride" won't be balanced. When you say "lowering springs", are you refering to a spring with the same or greater rate as the stock springs? A shorter suspension travel with a greater spring rate, paired with the same dampening force is going to create a jostled ride, because the dampening force can't keep up with the stronger spring rate.

Adjustable coilovers allow you to tune the dampening forces to the rate and travel of the spring, giving you the ability to create a better "RIDE". Doesn't mean that ride will still be to harsh for you. Most established suspension tuners can provide you with a spring for your coilovers with a lesser rate, for a softer "RIDE", but then you might want them to adjust the range of the dampening, but from the sounds of it, I'm guessing you'll never adjust them anyways.

It seems like we've come to the Form vs. Function delimma... "I want my Camaro to look cool, but I want it to feel like a Cadillac."

If you still want to lower your car, but you're concerned about a comfy right, have you thought about stepping down to a 19" wheel, and increasing the tire sideway? You could still lower your car, but use some of the tire to help soften out your ride. But I guess that wouldn't look as cool...

Simple answer: Coilover > Drop Springs


Yea there you go buddy...you sound OVER-EDUCATED for your own good.

You know nothing about me and my ride preferences. This isn't my first rodeo as far as a lowered ride... Hell even my Harley is slammed.

I know what springs handle like in different cars but not a Camaro as all cars ride differently. And no nothing about coilovers and ride "on a Camaro". Thats why i ask.

Where did you get 19" from me telling you about 22's lol....get real.

Now back to my question im sticking 22's on with 30 series up front and most likely 25 series in the rear. I want my car to sit about a 1" or so above the tires. Which suspension would give me a better ride without the feeling of mini-truck hop/bounce.

I was actually thinking about the PFADT lowering spring w/sways F&R or Pedders coilovers. Also if you lower and raise your car with coilovers do you have to get car aligned every time? Thanx.

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-28-2009 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tones2SS (Post 1325299)
BINGO!!!!
Coil overs are what will give you the better ride and cornering ability.
Hope that answers your question.:thumbsup:

THANX MAN...Is there a big difference in ride between the two options? Also when raising and lowering coilovers do you have to align car at every adjustment?

tones2SS 12-28-2009 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKnCHRME09Deluxe (Post 1325875)
THANX MAN...Is there a big difference in ride between the two options? Also when raising and lowering coilovers do you have to align car at every adjustment?

Just changing out the springs to a lowering type spring will give you a "rougher" than stock ride.
TRUST ME, the coil overs will be a better choice and you will be able to corner a little more aggressive, if you wanted to. You will need an alignment. (If I can offer a suggestion, I say go with Pedders.)
Good luck and post up pics.:thumbsup::drinking:

Info@PeddersUSA.com 12-28-2009 08:35 PM

Ride quality is not just spring and damper rate, but also the amount of suspension travel. So in terms of Pedders, you will get the best ride quality by far with our coil overs because no matter what the height is, 2 in drop to OE HEIGHT, you will have the same full suspension travel. Using a drop coil with more that 3/4 of an inch in the front drop significantly limits the amount of shock travel, and may have long term durability issues with the front dampers.

mike
dms

TonyNo 12-28-2009 08:43 PM

So, you are saying you can't recommend the Pedders drop coils?

Info@PeddersUSA.com 12-28-2009 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyNo (Post 1326599)
So, you are saying you can't recommend the Pedders drop coils?

Our Pedders drop coils meet our criteria for a SS and have no issues.

mike
dms

FEN 12-28-2009 11:12 PM

I have no experience w/coilovers but my 2SS is lowered 1" w/Eibach springs.Front tires are 40 series/rear are 35 series w/12" tread width.Unfortunately, i live on a dirt road and due to trucks flying down the roads it creates a washboard effect and ruts.Driving on this type of surface is rough due to the combination of the stiffer springs,low pro tires and tire width.I have to take it pretty slow....it doesnt bottom out but it is bumpy.Once i hit the paved road it rides GREAT. I have no complaints when driving on any paved roads.Ride quality is good as is handling.

Mark-HD 12-28-2009 11:48 PM

I have the Pedders drop coils. The performance and handling is outstanding. They look great. That said, I wish I had gone for coil overs. The bridge abutments on the interstates around Atlanta cause me to bottom out. There are 3 dips in my neighborhood that I bottom at only 25-30 miles an hour. I really didn't expect the ride to change that much. If the roads didn't suck around here they would be fine. I am taking them off next week.

lawdogg149 12-28-2009 11:52 PM

Pfadt has some neat coilovers coming soon. BC racing in Florida has the best priced coilovers in the market if pricing is a issue. they have a very great history in the import market

axis 12-29-2009 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark-HD (Post 1327311)
I have the Pedders drop coils. The performance and handling is outstanding. They look great. That said, I wish I had gone for coil overs. The bridge abutments on the interstates around Atlanta cause me to bottom out. There are 3 dips in my neighborhood that I bottom at only 25-30 miles an hour. I really didn't expect the ride to change that much. If the roads didn't suck around here they would be fine. I am taking them off next week.

What drop are your coils? They have a few different ones.

Stitch 12-29-2009 11:32 AM

Okay. I'm going to ignore your sarcasm and try to help you answer your question. When you're refering to the 30 and 25 series of tires, are we to assume that your are staying with the 245 adn 275 tread widths for the front and rears, or are your new 22's a different width from the stockers? A sidewall series means nothing if the tread width isn't included. If they are the same, your front wheel/tire combo radius will remain the same, and your rear will only shrink .6 inches. So your front fender gap will be the same as it is now, and your rear will increase by .6 inches.

If you're still looking at drop springs, just measure the gap, and get a spring with a drop rating that removes that gap to an inch. But you should get the coilovers. That way you can fine tune your fender gap, and adjust your dampening for your desired ride quality. You won't have that flexability with just drop springs.

The Pedders guys are very helpful and I'm sure their xA's are a great match for what you need.

About the alignment, everytime you make an adjustment to your suspension geometry, your alignment changes. If it's a temporary, minor ride height adjustment, I wouldn't worry, but if you're gonna keep your changes, get it aligned or you'll ruin tires and mess with your cars handling.

When you go to all those rodeos, do you ride your 'slammed' Harley? ;)

Hope your build goes well!

Bentley78 12-29-2009 02:02 PM

Hey OP, You dont even know what you're asking...If you know so much about lowering cars and have been to alot of gay rodeos then you would know aftermarket coil overs would give you a more "Comfortable" ride, You should have used that word from the begining btw. You aslo should know since your SO exp in lowering of vehicles that you have no ability to adjust compression or rebound with just springs, so basically; are you answering your own question?!?

Try to have a little more class and humble your self when people are just trying to help you.

PfadtRacing 12-29-2009 03:10 PM

I agree with some of the other comments that the "ride quality" is subject to interpretation, so I think an important question to ask is: What are you intending to use the vehicle for?

The drop springs will give you a great aesthetic look and a slightly firmer feel to your suspension. There are differences between the manufacturers of drop springs, so investigate exactly which set of springs will get you the right drop, durability and ride quality. A good set of springs will improve the ride by adding a firm but not harsh feel. You'll probably need to get opinions from end users on the relative ride quality of springs. This is a good solution that requires minimal cost for parts and installation, and will provide a similar ride quality to what the Camaro already has.

If you are interested in gaining more performance also, you could achieve the same drop with a coil-over solution and gain a lot of other things in the process. The benefits of coilovers in general and Pfadt units in particular are tunable damping and adjustable ride height. The adjustable damping fits well with your ride quality concern, because the damping plays a large role in ride quality. With the Pfadt coilovers there are 20 damping positions that will allow you to tailor the ride to suit your taste. Think of this as custom valving that you can change with a few twists of a knob. The softer damping settings provide better ride quality. If you have further questions, please feel free to post up and Iíll be happy to answer them. There is obviously a substantial increase in cost when making the move to coilovers. But the added performance, tuning aspects, and adjustability make them well worth a consideration.


And as a final note, if you are interested in taking a performance based approach I suggest that sway bar upgrades are a great tuning option. They have the ability to affect car balance without ride quality compromise. These, matched with a coil spring package can offer a tremendous amount in terms of performance increase, and maintain great "ride" quality, relative to OEM. Our Pfadt Sport Package (Pfadt drop springs and Sport swaybars) is a great package for cleaning up the ride height and getting the handling to a point where GM should have put it. It is a great all around package for a driving enthusiast.


Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions regarding suspension upgrades for your vehicle.

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-29-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch (Post 1328207)
Okay. I'm going to ignore your sarcasm and try to help you answer your question. When you're refering to the 30 and 25 series of tires, are we to assume that your are staying with the 245 adn 275 tread widths for the front and rears, or are your new 22's a different width from the stockers? A sidewall series means nothing if the tread width isn't included. If they are the same, you're front wheel/tire combo radius will remain the same, and your rear will only shrink .6 inches. So your front fender gap will be the same as it is now, and your rear will increase by .6 inches.

If you're still looking at drop springs, just measure the gap, and get a spring with a drop rating that removes that gap to an inch. But you should get the coilovers. That way you can fine tune your fender gap, and adjust your dampening for your desired ride quality. You won't have that flexability with just drop springs.

The Pedders guys are very helpful and I'm sure their xA's are a great match for what you need.

About the alignment, everytime you make an adjustment to your suspension geometry, your alignment changes. If it's a temporary, minor ride height adjustment, I wouldn't worry, but if you're gonna keep your changes, get it aligned or you'll ruin tires and mess with your cars handling.



Hope your build goes well!

Thanx for the answers to my questions.

As for the sarcasm you gave the same on your first post to me. Im heavy skinned as i see you are too....

The wheel size will be 10.5" rears with 9" fronts.
I noticed that the PFADT set-up only drops about 1.5" max which i don't think this may be enough. And if i wanted to go lower im sure the ride would suffer tremendously with springs.
As i stated above i know nothing about coilovers in a Camaro, thats why i ask about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley78 (Post 1328689)
Hey OP, You dont even know what you're asking...If you know so much about lowering cars and have been to alot of gay rodeos then you would know aftermarket coil overs would give you a more "Comfortable" ride, You should have used that word from the begining btw. You aslo should know since your SO exp in lowering of vehicles that you have no ability to adjust compression or rebound with just springs, so basically; are you answering your own question?!?

Try to have a little more class and humble your self when people are just trying to help you.

As for you.....LMAO!!! Theres always a tuff guy behind a keyboard...and your it aren't you. Well if your ever in KC, MO look me up..PLZ!!!! I do visit OHAHU as i have some extended family there. We should hang PLZZZZ!!!!!! "keyboard toughguy" You have nothing to offer to this thread so stay out..THANX "keyboard toughguy".

BLKnCHRME09Deluxe 12-29-2009 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing (Post 1328895)
I agree with some of the other comments that the "ride quality" is subject to interpretation, so I think an important question to ask is: What are you intending to use the vehicle for?

The drop springs will give you a great aesthetic look and a slightly firmer feel to your suspension. There are differences between the manufacturers of drop springs, so investigate exactly which set of springs will get you the right drop, durability and ride quality. A good set of springs will improve the ride by adding a firm but not harsh feel. You'll probably need to get opinions from end users on the relative ride quality of springs. This is a good solution that requires minimal cost for parts and installation, and will provide a similar ride quality to what the Camaro already has.

If you are interested in gaining more performance also, you could achieve the same drop with a coil-over solution and gain a lot of other things in the process. The benefits of coilovers in general and Pfadt units in particular are tunable damping and adjustable ride height. The adjustable damping fits well with your ride quality concern, because the damping plays a large role in ride quality. With the Pfadt coilovers there are 20 damping positions that will allow you to tailor the ride to suit your taste. Think of this as custom valving that you can change with a few twists of a knob. The softer damping settings provide better ride quality. If you have further questions, please feel free to post up and Iíll be happy to answer them. There is obviously a substantial increase in cost when making the move to coilovers. But the added performance, tuning aspects, and adjustability make them well worth a consideration.


And as a final note, if you are interested in taking a performance based approach I suggest that sway bar upgrades are a great tuning option. They have the ability to affect car balance without ride quality compromise. These, matched with a coil spring package can offer a tremendous amount in terms of performance increase, and maintain great "ride" quality, relative to OEM. Our Pfadt Sport Package (Pfadt drop springs and Sport swaybars) is a great package for cleaning up the ride height and getting the handling to a point where GM should have put it. It is a great all around package for a driving enthusiast.


Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions regarding suspension upgrades for your vehicle.

This is just the info i needed ...THANK YOU.....it looks to me that coilovers may be my best bet.

Looks like you have a great product....Not trying to be a smarta$$ but is there a reason that you guys are charging about $800.00 more than Pedders set-up. coil-overs...Will you guys price match Pedders.


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