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-   Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Manual Trans in The ls3 v8 ?? (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6120)

Kelton00912 08-19-2008 03:12 AM

Manual Trans in The ls3 v8 ??
 
so like i know the camaro will have a cheaper v8 and a more expensive v8 thats has allot more power... so what i was wondering is that can you get the manual transmission (6speed) in the cheaper v8 ? cause by reading the specs on it you cant by my understanding? if so im screwed! cause its 3 peddles or nothing lol

Jamestwilliams 08-19-2008 03:34 AM

I don't think the engine with les power will actually be cheaper. The manual will be standard equipment with the auto as an option. http://www.camaro5.com:80/forums/showthread.php?t=6040. Also you'd have to consider what that "cheaper" engine does, it has cylinder deactivation and the auto comes with paddle shifters of some kind.

SilverTurtle 08-19-2008 07:14 AM

there's no such thing as a "cheaper" V8 model at launch... the L99 is the 400hp cylinder deactivation engine that only comes with the automatic transmission... the 422hp engine is the LS3 and is only available with the manual... do not be surprised if the manual transmission option is a price adder, as GM is wanting to sell the heck out of the autos.

also dont be surprised if these numbers, much like the 361hp in the G8, are way low for what the car is actually producing.

Supermans 08-19-2008 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle (Post 114702)
there's no such thing as a "cheaper" V8 model at launch... the L99 is the 400hp cylinder deactivation engine that only comes with the automatic transmission... the 422hp engine is the LS3 and is only available with the manual... do not be surprised if the manual transmission option is a price adder, as GM is wanting to sell the heck out of the autos.

also dont be surprised if these numbers, much like the 361hp in the G8, are way low for what the car is actually producing.

I would imagine the automatic transmission would be more expensive than the manual..

SilverTurtle 08-19-2008 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermans (Post 114706)
I would imagine the automatic transmission would be more expensive than the manual..

while historically the case, I believe we will see role reversal in this model

Dan 08-19-2008 09:20 AM

On the GTOs the manual was a $695 option, auto was standard.

radz28 08-19-2008 09:45 AM

It would seem to me the auto' would be more pricey too. I think the AFM in the L99 would have something to do with that since it sounds more complex than the LS3, valvetrain-wise. I'm sure it'll be underrated and under tuned. I'm sure getting rid of the TM would help a lot. I can tell you the difference in my car with the TM on and with it off were litterally night and day.

fastball 08-19-2008 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 114742)
On the GTOs the manual was a $695 option, auto was standard.

The GTO also did not have AFM and the more sophisticated transmission setup that will be in the automatic Camaro (good old 4 speed was in the GTO while the Camaro will have a 6 speed and paddle shifters or a manual operation of some kind).

Another factor to consider is that, since GM knew the automatic would get the gas guzzler tax, I think they used that as a reason to charge extra for the 6 speed and say to people "hey, you're still getting it cheaper than an automatic without the gas tax"

gunslinger 08-19-2008 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastball (Post 114976)
The GTO also did not have AFM and the more sophisticated transmission setup that will be in the automatic Camaro (good old 4 speed was in the GTO while the Camaro will have a 6 speed and paddle shifters or a manual operation of some kind).

Another factor to consider is that, since GM knew the automatic would get the gas guzzler tax, I think they used that as a reason to charge extra for the 6 speed and say to people "hey, you're still getting it cheaper than an automatic without the gas tax"

The A6 will have a gas-guzzler tax while the M6 won't?

I figure the rated EPA MPG will be similar...

Jamestwilliams 08-19-2008 09:16 PM

Just to avoid confusion I put parenthesis around the term cheaper to show I didn't actually agree that the l99 would be cheaper. I was quoting the original poster.

fastball 08-19-2008 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger (Post 115095)
The A6 will have a gas-guzzler tax while the M6 won't?

I figure the rated EPA MPG will be similar...

No, no, no...... I sorry, I think I might not have been very clear..... I was talking about the GTO and why I don't think you will have to pay for the manual on the Camaro:

What I meant, was, that since the 6 speed manual was a 695.00 option on the GTO, GM may have been using the fact that the standard 4 speed automatic was subject to a federal 1200.00 gas guzzler tax to garner some extra cash, while still be able to say the 6 speed manual was less than the automatic.

The AFM should help the Camaro avoid a gas guzzler tax. GM is aiming for 23 mpg highway with the automatic L99, which is about 3 mpg highway more than the 6.0 4 speed automatic got on the GTO. Not to mention, the ratings system has been revised since the GTO went out of production, so the L99 Camaro should be quite a bit more economical than the GTO automatic ever was.

JEFF2010SSMANUAL 08-19-2008 09:32 PM

I think the 422hp manual might be more $$$ then the 400hp auto.


After reading the specs, it sounds like the manual will be standard and the auto will cost more. Thats usually the way it is.

SoFlaZ 08-19-2008 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz282003 (Post 114757)
It would seem to me the auto' would be more pricey too. I think the AFM in the L99 would have something to do with that since it sounds more complex than the LS3, valvetrain-wise. I'm sure it'll be underrated and under tuned. I'm sure getting rid of the TM would help a lot. I can tell you the difference in my car with the TM on and with it off were litterally night and day.

I must be having a brain fart but what is a TM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEFF2010SSMANUAL (Post 115141)
I think the 422hp manual might be more $$$ then the 400hp auto.

I hope not:paddle: :cry: :cry: :cry:

shank0668 08-19-2008 10:38 PM

ill be po'd if the auto is more and why cant they be the same price as the 69's:D

Jamestwilliams 08-20-2008 12:01 AM

There is more technology involved in the auto, including the engine. Both V8s are essentially the same engine except for the cylinder deactivation, but in the dealer paper it states the manual is standard and the auto is an option. I've never heard of optional equipment being cheaper than the standard equipment. In the cars where the standard is more money than the auto, the standard is an option and it has more gears than the auto.

radz28 08-20-2008 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoFlaZ (Post 115147)
I must be having a brain fart but what is a TM?



I hope not:paddle: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm sorry; I should'nt have been lazy. TM is torque management. For simplicity, it comes in a lot of times between shifts, especially for autos'. In my car, anything above 1/3 throttle evokes massive throttle manipulation from the powertrain control module. It will litterally pull timing (?and fuel?) so that there is less shock to the drivetrain to prolong life. In my car, it feels like I'm stomping on the brakes, hard, between shifts when I'm on it because of my somewhat high-speed stall torque converter. When I have the TM removed, it shifts super quick and a little firmer. I can recall seeing many older LS1 F-bodies run at the track, and they would chirp the 1-2 shift, while almost an '01-'02 car wouldn't. My brother's didn't either. I'm not sure how much more of a difference there was mechanically between the transmissions in those years, but I do know that TM can take away a littler performance.

Now, do you want to remove it?... Well, GM put it there for a reason.

MajorTom 08-20-2008 09:58 AM

I'm pretty sure you're right about the Camaro being more economical than the GTO with the A4. But I'm pretty sure the M6 versions are going to be about equal with the new standards. 16-23 right? The M6 GTO was rated at 17-25 under the old standards.


And did anyone else notice that with CAFE standards rising to 35mpg, we also have to deal with a less generous rating system? All of a sudden the EPA changes their testing procedure to make it harder to achieve.

GTAHVIT 08-20-2008 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorTom (Post 115419)
.....

And did anyone else notice that with CAFE standards rising to 35mpg, we also have to deal with a less generous rating system? All of a sudden the EPA changes their testing procedure to make it harder to achieve.

There's a ton of great info on this site regarding CAFE, I think diarmadhi has a couple real detailed explanations regarding this topic.

If you're interested.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...t=2581&p=40443

SoFlaZ 08-20-2008 10:20 AM

Oh, ok. I've heard of torque management but never knew fully what it did. I bet it is there for a reason but whynot drive your car to its full potential once in a while! Is it easy to turn on/off or do you need HP tuners or something? I just hope the MT is not more expensive. I'm going to test drive both anyway to see which I like better and base my judgment on that and if the L99 will really get significantly better mpg which I believe the LS3 can get real close to.
If the V6 is going to get 26 I don' see it getting much higher than it and thats "only" a 3 mpg diff which I think I can get a bump of 2-4mpg with the LS3. Though it may be possible to get better V6 and L99 numbers so i'm still stuck in my decision.

TAG UR IT 08-20-2008 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle (Post 114702)
there's no such thing as a "cheaper" V8 model at launch... the L99 is the 400hp cylinder deactivation engine that only comes with the automatic transmission... the 422hp engine is the LS3 and is only available with the manual... do not be surprised if the manual transmission option is a price adder, as GM is wanting to sell the heck out of the autos.

also dont be surprised if these numbers, much like the 361hp in the G8, are way low for what the car is actually producing.

Why would GM be pushing to sell more autos? Is it because it's got all the gas saving features like AFM and VVT? Why would the manual cost more?

gunslinger 08-20-2008 07:56 PM

Does anyone think the Camaro will be able to achieve the ~28 MPG (which was DAMN impressive for a 350 HP muscle car) that the 4th Gen w/ M6 got?

I sure hope so...

What was a 2002 Camaro Z28 w/ 6 speed rated at?

I know it weighs more, but at a constant speed weight has LITTLE to do with MPG, other than more friction on bearings from the increased weight...


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