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-   -   Ordering Tips (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7845)

GoldFire 10-08-2008 01:59 PM

Ordering Tips
 
This is the first time I have ever bought a new car, much less ordered one before it is even out. I am sure I am not the only one like this and was wondering if any of you all that are more experienced have some tips for ordering and watching out for dealer scams. What kind of questions should be asked when going in on monday to order, etc.

haulass350 10-08-2008 02:31 PM

rofl i was thinking the exact same thing the only other thing ive bought brand spanking new was my motorcycle and for it all you get to decide it the color, i'm writting down a list of stuff i want to know now and i'm bout to call the local dealership.

GoldFire 10-08-2008 02:52 PM

Care to share some of the things you are wanting to know? I am thinking I need to ask about any fees, not sure what else.

haulass350 10-08-2008 02:56 PM

1.) do i need to make a downpayment on the car? is it refundable? and how much?

2.) what are your plans for the pricing on the camaro when it comes out?

3.) is there a waiting list already for the car? if so where would i be at?





thats all i have for now this is a local dealership that someone posted on the msrp or below thread, just more or less checking to see if thats what there really charging and to see if they know whats going on or if i should check elsewhere. been trying to think of some other things to ask, i really need to start writing down all the random question i have while reading these forums lol.

GoldFire 10-08-2008 03:14 PM

Well I have found a dealer that will give me $1000 over invoice. There is $1000 refundable downpayement. I know there must be more I should ask, just not sure what it is.

Mr_Draco 10-08-2008 03:25 PM

Yea me too. This will be the 1st time I've ever bought a new car and I've not bought a used car in years. While I don't have any questions about the process of buying a new car, I am curious about the costs of tag and title and if tax on a new car is based on the states sales tax or if there is a different tax for new vehicles.

Speedy1975 10-08-2008 03:53 PM

My advice for what it's worth, and I've bought several brand new cars....

Things in dealerships will be done in stages.

Stage 1 - The salesman - he talks you into buying the car, gets you excited about ownership, and will try to have you imagine yourself driving and owning the car. He will banter back and forth with his "Sales Manager" and pretend to be on your side during these negotiations. A 4 square worksheet will likely be used. This is where you'll work out your purchase price + any options and addons like mud guards, floor mats, whatever. If you're trading in a car during this Stage be sure to treat that as a separate transaction. The numbers will get fuzzy very quickly, so you'll want to know two things: A) what am I paying for this new car? B) what trade in are you giving me for my car? Don't let them roll it all together.

If you're not trading in a car, then just focus strictly on sale price OTD (out the door). Remember, you'll be paying for the car + tax + title +license + doc fees charged by the dealer. These "doc" fees are silly fees and can vary by as much a $200 - $300 per dealer.

Your best bet all around is to shop 3 dealers and get three quotes on the car you want. Get the three dealers dealing against each other to make you the best deal and go with the best deal.

Never go in saying you want your payment to be XXX.XX / mo. This opens you up to a 6 or 7 year loan and you'll WAY over pay. Always stick to the total OTD. Take a calculator. I've caught sales managers in number tricks several times because I had a calc on hand to check the math. Once they realize they can't screw with you, you'll get their bottom line deal and no more games.

Going through the internet usually garauntees a better deal as the internet salesman will assume you've done your homework and know what others are paying.

Stage 2 - The Finance Office - This is where you'll work out how you're paying for the car. This is also where dealerships make a TON of money. If you're going to finance the car, shop around with your local banks to find out what interest rates you'll qualify for. Beware of any and all additional crap the finance officer will try to talk you into such as extended warranties, payment insurance, clear coat protector, fabric protector, etc. Most of this is just garbage to increase over all profit. I never buy any of this stuff, you'll have to make that decision on your own whether it's worth it or not. If you're buying loan insurance you probably can't afford the car anyway and should wait and save more for your down payment.

Beware of rolling any of the extras you decide to purchase into the amount financed. Say your extended warranty is $2,000. The loan officer will try to tell you it's only $32.38/mo if you roll that into the loan. The problem is that then you're also paying interest on that $2,000 warranty making it even more expensive. If you want extras, pay cash for them as part of the down payment.

Double check every single number on every single piece of paper you sign. I've been in the middle of deals before where I've found typos on the number of years for the loan, the interest rate, etc. It'll be a lot of papers, so take your time.

Avoid financing anything longer than 48 mos. 36 mos is even better unless it's some special at 0% interest. The problem with stretching out the loan more than 48 mos is that you end up upside down in the car very quickly unless you plopped down a huge down payment, and if you were able to do that, then you should be able to shorten the term to 36 mos.

Speedy1975 10-08-2008 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco (Post 149660)
Yea me too. This will be the 1st time I've ever bought a new car and I've not bought a used car in years. While I don't have any questions about the process of buying a new car, I am curious about the costs of tag and title and if tax on a new car is based on the states sales tax or if there is a different tax for new vehicles.

In TN it's 9.75% sales tax on the car, new or used. The thing to watch for here is if you have a trade in. Say the car is $30,000. The dealer says they're gonna give you $5,000 for your trade in (trade in allowance). Then you only pay tax on $25,000. (30,000 - 5,000 trade in allowance = 25,000).

That's how I figure if I should sell out right or trade the car in. I take the dealer's offer for trade in, add that together with the tax I'd save:

$5,000 (tia) x 9.75% (tax) = $487.50
$5,000 + $487.50 (tax) = $5487.50

So unless I could sell the car for $6,000 it' better to just trade it in and avoid the hassle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldFire (Post 149651)
Well I have found a dealer that will give me $1000 over invoice. There is $1000 refundable downpayement. I know there must be more I should ask, just not sure what it is.

What's the doc fee? (I've seen this be anywhere from $100 - $500)

Is there a dealer prep fee? (I've seen this anywhere from $100 - $400)

Does that $1,000 over invoice include delivery fees? ($675?)

Remember to add in taxes (9.75% in TN to the purchase price). For a $30,000 car taxes alone are $2925 for me.

Don't forget to add in your tags.

That's all I can think of right now.

joel98z 10-08-2008 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy1975 (Post 149692)
My advice for what it's worth, and I've bought several brand new cars....

Things in dealerships will be done in stages.

Stage 1 - The salesman - he talks you into buying the car, gets you excited about ownership, and will try to have you imagine yourself driving and owning the car. He will banter back and forth with his "Sales Manager" and pretend to be on your side during these negotiations. A 4 square worksheet will likely be used. This is where you'll work out your purchase price + any options and addons like mud guards, floor mats, whatever. If you're trading in a car during this Stage be sure to treat that as a separate transaction. The numbers will get fuzzy very quickly, so you'll want to know two things: A) what am I paying for this new car? B) what trade in are you giving me for my car? Don't let them roll it all together.

If you're not trading in a car, then just focus strictly on sale price OTD (out the door). Remember, you'll be paying for the car + tax + title +license + doc fees charged by the dealer. These "doc" fees are silly fees and can vary by as much a $200 - $300 per dealer.

Your best bet all around is to shop 3 dealers and get three quotes on the car you want. Get the three dealers dealing against each other to make you the best deal and go with the best deal.

Never go in saying you want your payment to be XXX.XX / mo. This opens you up to a 6 or 7 year loan and you'll WAY over pay. Always stick to the total OTD. Take a calculator. I've caught sales managers in number tricks several times because I had a calc on hand to check the math. Once they realize they can't screw with you, you'll get their bottom line deal and no more games.

Going through the internet usually garauntees a better deal as the internet salesman will assume you've done your homework and know what others are paying.

Stage 2 - The Finance Office - This is where you'll work out how you're paying for the car. This is also where dealerships make a TON of money. If you're going to finance the car, shop around with your local banks to find out what interest rates you'll qualify for. Beware of any and all additional crap the finance officer will try to talk you into such as extended warranties, payment insurance, clear coat protector, fabric protector, etc. Most of this is just garbage to increase over all profit. I never buy any of this stuff, you'll have to make that decision on your own whether it's worth it or not. If you're buying loan insurance you probably can't afford the car anyway and should wait and save more for your down payment.

Beware of rolling any of the extras you decide to purchase into the amount financed. Say your extended warranty is $2,000. The loan officer will try to tell you it's only $32.38/mo if you roll that into the loan. The problem is that then you're also paying interest on that $2,000 warranty making it even more expensive. If you want extras, pay cash for them as part of the down payment.

Double check every single number on every single piece of paper you sign. I've been in the middle of deals before where I've found typos on the number of years for the loan, the interest rate, etc. It'll be a lot of papers, so take your time.

Avoid financing anything longer than 48 mos. 36 mos is even better unless it's some special at 0% interest. The problem with stretching out the loan more than 48 mos is that you end up upside down in the car very quickly unless you plopped down a huge down payment, and if you were able to do that, then you should be able to shorten the term to 36 mos.

Very Sound advice.

SimC33 10-08-2008 05:29 PM

And make sure that any promises, or anything is on paper in plain writing and signed by them and you

GoldFire 10-08-2008 05:43 PM

Thank you for the advice. On these different fees, are there ways to get the dealer to remove those fees?

Speedy1975 10-08-2008 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldFire (Post 149819)
Thank you for the advice. On these different fees, are there ways to get the dealer to remove those fees?

Not typically. They are negotiable though. That's why I emphasize the "OTD" price.

Sometimes the fees will show up the same, but they remove costs from somewhere else. So if you say "I'll only pay $30K" they make all the fees and what not fit that amount.

GoldFire 10-08-2008 06:18 PM

So if I try to negotiate cheaper fees do I just ask if I can get cheaper fees, or is there a better way of saying it?

SimC33 10-08-2008 06:30 PM

Ok when I bought my BMW 135i me and A LOT of other people used this method and it worked out amazingly...I don't know if this will help you but just in case here it is...It's called the "Rizzo Method" look at it and let me know what you think.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html

GoldFire 10-08-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimC33 (Post 149873)
Ok when I bought my BMW 135i me and A LOT of other people used this method and it worked out amazingly...I don't know if this will help you but just in case here it is...It's called the "Rizzo Method" look at it and let me know what you think.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html

That is good generally, but doesn't help much in this situation since we don't know the price of the car yet.

SimC33 10-08-2008 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldFire (Post 149909)
That is good generally, but doesn't help much in this situation since we don't know the price of the car yet.

This is true you don't know the price, but on monday, I'm sure that all that is going to happen is you sitting down and telling them what you want on the car. Like you said theres no price yet, so therefore you don't really have to ask a whole lot of questions, your not gonna be number crunching on monday, negotiating fees, or anything like that set in stone yet due to the fact there is no price. NOW, once the pricing does come into affect, then I would refer to that little write up I posted...It helped me and alot of other 135i owners out alot.

Speedy1975 10-08-2008 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldFire (Post 149861)
So if I try to negotiate cheaper fees do I just ask if I can get cheaper fees, or is there a better way of saying it?

Well, I hate to say this, and please don't take it the wrong way, but since you're committing to buying a brand new model sight unseen, you're pretty much screwed on getting any deals on the charges. Expect to pay the maximum for everything.

That's the price you'll pay to be first to have this vehicle, among other things.


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