[waterman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Let's look at things rationally. Why does GM need to respond? Ok let's go back to 2010.

Camaro SS shows up with 426/400 and 400/400 HP/TQ against the GT's 315/325 HP/TQ. Along with having IRS and other features that the GT didn't have. The Camaro remained mechanically unchanged for that entire 5th Gen. Meanwhile the GT had to up their game by 96 HP and 65 TQ just to keep up. They still had solid rear axle and not as many features as the SS had. The 2012 GT500 shows up with 580 HP to the GT500's 550. So Ford again has to step their game up for 2013-2014. Meanwhile the Z28 shows up. Ford has to step their game up with the GT350 for the 6th Gen to battle it which turns out to be a serious mistake on their part. Meanwhile the GT jumps up another 9 HP (whoopty effing doo) to 420 HP. All the while GM had been done started on the 6th Gen. So while Ford was busy answering to what GM had done, GM was busy moving ahead.

Enter the 6th Gen. The GT gains weight due to IRS and an extra 15 HP which is neutralized by the aforementioned extra weight. GM bumps the Camaro up to 455 HP. So let's stop right there and review, from 11-16 the Mustang went from 411 to 435 which is a 24 HP gain but they had to do it in 2 stages. The Camaro went from 426 to 455 in one shot which was a 29 HP gain. The GT gained 2 tenths in the quarter mile from 11-13 but then lost that time with the added weight of the S550 despite gaining HP. The Camaro on the other hand dropped over half a second off their quarter mile time.

Ok so now we're at the 6th Gen for both cars. The SS heavily outperforms the GT. In 2017 the ZL1 shows up. Then in 2018 the ZLE shows up. All the while the GT350 and GT350R both are outmatched. Why? Because Ford tried to answer the outgoing 5th Gen Z28 and ended up being outmatched by the new Gen of Camaros. So the ZL1 shows to be more than a match for the Shelbys, runs right along with the more powerful Hellcat in a straight line, and proves to be cheaper than both cars. It has more standard options than the Shelby and beats the Shelby at everything. It has the same amount of options standard as the Hellcat but matches the Hellcat in the quarter mile while delivering the Hellcat a massive beating on the track. Meanwhile the SS and SLE proves more than a match for the GT, the GT PP, and can even hang with the much more expensive GT350. The ZLE is just in a class by itself. So GM moves on to the next project while Ford is, yet again, fighting the older and unchanged Camaros. They had to completely rebuild the GT and then do a PP2. The GT350s remained unchanged. So now they finally match the SS which (along with other things) pushes the release of the GT500 back soo far the the entire S550 platform has to get extended for 1 full year.

So the GT500 is finally arriving in the ZL1's 4th MY of production and will be available for only 2 MYs. What exactly is there to answer to? The Demon was a 1 year only vehicle and is good at one thing. And it showed up after the Hellcat had been out for 3 MYs on a 10 year old platform. So in the amount of time that the Challenger has been out it has been on the same platform while the Camaro has gone thru an entire Gen and has made some extreme changes from the 5th to the 6th Gen. The Redeye shows up 4 MYs after the Hellcat has been released. Where are we in ZL1 MYs...?? Oh right, it's 3rd year and on a new Gen. So why does the Challenger get 10 years on the same platform and 4 MYs of the Hellcat but it's been only 4 MYs on a 6th Gen Camaro platform and only 3 MYs of the ZL1? Why the hell is everyone criticizing GM? Ok so the Redeye beats the ZL1 in a straight line. Well the ZL1 straight up destroys the Redeye around a track. So why isn't that considered a wash? Why is GM drawing all the negative criticism for ONE damn area where it loses to a car that is on a 10 year platform and has 147 more HP?? Meanwhile the Camaro has made incredible improvements in every performance category since 2010 while the Challenger has made improvements in ONE are since 2008. So again, why the bias??

GM has repeatedly built cars that performed soo well that no changes were needed. Against the Mustang, the GT is the one that has constantly needed to answer to the SS. The GT500 has constantly needed to answer to the ZL1. Not the other way around. Even now the 20 GT500 is answering to the 17 ZL1. GM does not need to do bumps over time because they do things the right way the first time and then move on. Ever hear of that? Do it right the first time and you don't have to do it again. The GT was massively overhauled for 2018 to battle the 16 SS. And they matched the SS. Did they leap over it? No. That tells me right there that the 16 Camaro was 2 year's worth of performance ahead of it's time. And the ZL1, considering that it took the Redeye and GT500 to beat it, was 2-4 years ahead of it's time. So again, where does anyone see that GM needs to answer to any of these vehicles when they're the ones struggling to keep up with the Camaro?

On top of that, look what it takes to beat the Camaros. More time in development and more HP and even then it still isn't a sure win. And on top of that the Camaros have been the better performance value over any other vehicle available. But let's forget all the details and just criticize the Camaro. Sure. The problem is that everyone complaining is short-sighted and looks only at 1 or 2 aspects and nothing else.

Well stated. Bravo!